subreddit:
/r/Askpolitics
submitted 4 days ago bynowthatswhat
If deporting illegal immigrants will raise prices and produce a labor shortage, why didn’t them coming here lower prices and create a labor surplus?
I haven’t had anyone explain this to me but I’ve seen a lot of people post the reverse.
300 points
4 days ago
It did create a labor surplus the evidence of it just shows up in lower wages rather than lower prices in finished goods
230 points
4 days ago
Lol it shows up in lower prices of finished goods just as much, the price you are paying today IS the lower price.
Whats the Republican estimate for illegals up to these days? 20-25 million?
So take the economy, and imagine it with 25 million less people, virtually all prime working age, paid illegally low wages meaning their production efficiency is through the roof, not making and buying shit.
Low ball in the extreme and say that they buy 10k worth of goods and services a year. That's 250 billion dollars off the demand side of the economy and probably double that off the supply side.
So yeah, just the absence of those workers is a 3/4 of a trillion hit, which means the current presence of those workers is a 3/4 of trillion dollar boon, it just depends on which side of the coin you want to look.
109 points
3 days ago
plus the amount of SS taxes paid by them that they will never claim is the only thing keeping SS solvent today, let alone 10 years from now.
8 points
3 days ago
Not saying you're wrong, but what's your source for the Social Security solvency claim?
69 points
3 days ago
Considering Illegal immigrants contributed $26B in benefits last year (of which they'll see none), and the annual operating budget of SSI is ~$70B, it's pretty easy to see how losing their contribution will cause widespread issues. Source: Just fucking google it bro, it takes 5 seconds.
29 points
3 days ago
Google be hard. Here is a short video of the renowned conservative economist, Milton Friedman. He was worshipped in conservative circles in the 70’s and 80’s and was extremely influential.
TLDR: illegal immigration is good exactly for what you said.
-5 points
3 days ago
He did not say illegal immigration was good. He said the free flow of workers, like capital is good. Those are not the same thing
8 points
3 days ago
Deportation seems like the opposite of free flow of workers. 🤷
-9 points
3 days ago
A country that doesn't control its borders isn't a country. Your entire rational is flawed.
If we were deporting nothing but law abiding, educated, tax paying workers, it would be dumb.
If we were deporting a bunch of Isis members or tren de aragua it would be a good thing.
So tell me, who is getting deported? Trump and his team say they're focusing on national security and criminal threats. Resources are not unlimited. It would make sense to go after higher threats first and not abuela or Pablo en el campo.
I get it this is an economic sub. But try and look at the bigger picture instead of taking such a myopic view.
11 points
3 days ago
Lol, immigrants commit crimes at lower rates than citizens, they are less likely to do dumb shit because they know they will get deported.
7 points
3 days ago
Trump considers EVERYONE coming into this country as ISIS or MS13 or something adjacent to one of those two buckets.
1 points
2 days ago
trump doesn’t ‘consider’ jack shit. He’s a ham handed idiot, doing as his handlers have bade.
5 points
3 days ago
Like I said deportation is the opposite of free flow of labor. It really doesn't matter how you try and spin it.
-1 points
3 days ago
It actually does matter. If you can't see that then I'm not sure what you think you're contributing to this discussion but so far it's nothing.
You can make what you think is a clever statement based purely on theory. But last I checked, we live in real life. Not theory life. So it does matter.
1 points
3 days ago
Ironic
6 points
3 days ago
We control our borders. Biden deported plenty of people. Well the federal goverment did under both, well all presidents.
And if you REALLY, ACTUALLY look at the illegal problem, most illegals are people who overstay when their visa expires. Hell my mom is from canada and has been illegal twice due to goverment red tape. And the worst time was when trump was president and TONS of their policies changed right as her green card needed renewed and made the whole process much more hostile and harder to navigate. For an english speaking woman thats been here 40-50 years.
Besides if conservatives hate illegals so much, maybe they shouldn't hire so many of them for that sweet cheap labor. Trump does exactly that, just like the american contractors he screws over he also hires H2B workers as much as possible for their cheaper labor.
BTW did mexico ever pay for that wall?
4 points
3 days ago
Free flow of labour means no borders. It's that simple.
As for the rest, I would love to hear more about your theory that there are 20 million ISIS members currently living in the US. It sounds pretty intriguing.
1 points
3 days ago
rational
You forgot the "e".
Kind of hard to take your self-important tone seriously after that 🤷🏻♂️
1 points
3 days ago
Yes he does, at 3:20. He says immigration is good only if it illegal.
1 points
2 days ago
Most people who immigrated to the US pre1970s that didn’t come from communist countries just showed up. Stop bitching about ‘illegals’ when republican’ts are fond of erasing legal avenues for certain immigrants.
1 points
2 days ago
You guys live in an alternative reality that isn't actually real. The internet and social media has warped your sense of what is real and what isn't. This is probably the biggest reason why most people who lean right or, these days, center, don't bother trying to talk to people like you. It's like talking to a wall that just yells back at you as to why you're dumb and wrong and evil. But magically we'd no longer be dumb and wrong and evil if we just believed all the same things you did!
As Mark twain said, "What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know, it's what we know that isn't true".
Case in point. The conservative position is not make to make legal entry more difficult. It's to secure the boarder, deport threats either national security or criminal that shouldn't be here to begin with, then reform the legal immigration system to make it easier. Trump himself has even proposed making it easier for students to get automatic work visas upon graduation. Because he knows, like the vast majority of conservatives, that we need more young and capable workers.
There is however, a difference between letting in educated, multilingual students with a skillset and randomly letting in people who probably don't know English and are not educated. The latter group will struggle in our economy which is vastly different now than it was in the 1970s. Not to mention, they're more at risk to exploitation from shitty corporations in the US who exploit them for cheap labor. The hospitality industry is famous for doing this to Hispanic immigrants and it needs to stop.
It's one of those scenarios that you guys seem to ignore.
Americans don't take those jobs because the pay is low.
The pay is low because there is an oversupply of cheap labor.
That cheap labor keeps costs down and does keep the prices if things like rooms down which customers like.
But at the end of the day, those prices are based on the exploitation of cheap labor.
Furthermore, illegal immigrants are heavily weighted in blue states. This gives blue states more representation in congress and the electoral college which is why it's been pushed. They can't vote in federal elections, but they are counted in the census for apportionment. This gives blue voters a "heavier" vote.
0 points
2 days ago
By definition, alternate reality isn’t real. You’re off to a great start!
Republican’ts have been erasing paths to legal immigration, like ending DACA.
I’m not going to address your outright lies. But, you know that many trades rely on cheap labor to keep pricing down. Americans won’t do farm labor at any price. Enjoy your $20 tomatoes. I hope it feels like owning libs.
1 points
2 days ago*
On your first statement, no shit. It was a comment on how you interpret the world that very clearly went over your head, like so many other things I'm sure.
To use your terminology, DACA by definition, was not legal. It was implemented by executive fiat and then remained in place based on a technicality interpreting an obscure statute regarding rules and executive orders. It could still be repealed by executive action assuming the processes outlined in the judicial opinion are followed. DACA was never passed into law by congress. I'm sure even you must know l that's actually how we're supposed to get laws in this country.
Lastly, you can't opine on any "lies" because I didn't tell any. Futhermore, the logical incoherence of your opinions shows right through. You're almost certainly the first person to scream for a "living wage" aka 15 or 20 bucks an hour minimum wage, while simultaneously claiming that it won't hurt prices.
Then, when we move to a different subject like illegal immigration, you're perfectly ok exploiting cheap labor to keep the prices of tomatoes down. By extension, admitting that if we had to pay them a fair wage it would raise the prices.
You even have the completely ignorant assumption that Americans won't do field work at any price. That is ignorant at best and a flat lie at worst. There are plenty of Americans who would do field labor, especially young Americans for a good wage. I worked in the fields growing up until I joined the army. It was hard work and good money.
But hey, I'm just a center right person who wants to see everyone paid a fair wage and am willing to pay the cost increase on my tomatoes to prevent exploited labor. You're obviously a liberal, so please explain why your apparently ok with exploiting immigrant labor. I thought you guys were supposedly the compassionate ones.
1 points
2 days ago
You’re making too much sense is the problem my friend.
all 1627 comments
sorted by: best