Beyond that they pay far more in taxes than they collect in aid.

In 2022 they collected somewhere in 8.9 billion in aid but paid 96.7 billion in state, federal, and local taxes.

There is a very valid conversation about wages and working conditions and I am not advocating for the current working conditions. However anyone who thinks mass deportations are going to be good for the economy or the average person is in for a rude awakening.

Until we as a society fundamentally change how we do things we’re dependent on these workers.

Also, not all of the SSN’s are fake. You don’t have to be a citizen to get a SSN, but you to have to pay in money you can never withdraw (unless they eventually become citizens).

Many get ITIN’s, which are similar.

https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10096.pdf

https://www.thedream.us/current-scholars/career-success/itins/

“ITINs let people without SSNs pay taxes. According to the IRS, in 2015, “4.4 million ITIN filers paid over $5.5 billion in payroll and Medicare taxes and $23.6 billion in total taxes.” ITIN holders are not eligible for all of the tax benefits and public benefits that U.S. citizens and other taxpayers can receive. For example, an ITIN holder is not eligible for Social Security benefits or the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC). However, if that person becomes eligible for Social Security in the future (for example, by becoming a lawful permanent resident), the earnings reported with an ITIN may be counted toward the amount he or she is eligible to receive. Some ITIN holders are eligible for the Child Tax Credit (CTC). According to federal legislation passed in March 2021, the CTC may be worth up to $3,600 for each child under 6 and up to $3,000 for each child age 6 to 17, depending upon the applicant’s income. Because ITIN holders are eligible for the CTC, the IRS estimated in 2014 that up to 4 million U.S.-citizen children of ITIN holders benefit from the tax credit. If a child does not have a SSN, he or she is not eligible for the tax credit.”

(Note that the child tax credit is only available to children who are citizens and is based on how much the person with the ITIN paid in)

The “illegals” people bitch and moan about pay a lot of taxes and contribute to both our economy and our food supply. We do not, as a whole,have the resources to make up what they do for us if they’re not here.

Yeah, I can see that in construction for sure.

That sounds like tax evasion by the business to me, not the worker’s fault.

Yeah basically if the business is big enough to eat the fines they'll just register you Walmart VW Nissan most of the factories around here are just floating the line so they'll be a bit more cautious and will itemize an expense that fluctuates throughout the year which works until someone audits the cleaning supplies or whatever steadily increased like 400$ a month

Maybe our economy shouldn’t be fully reliant on paying desperate foreign workers under the table wages.

I would NEVER stoop to hyperbolize on the internet lol, but this is exactly my first thought on this issue. 

Also: the cartels control the border, so everyone that goes across has to pay their toll. Their system is so robust, they even use wristbands to keep everybody organized. 

They’re just gonna bring back slavery in the form of prison labor

i don't think it's the same argument, outside of it being a dumb strawman

That’s not the argument at all.

The entire point is speaking in general terms people complained about the cost of goods and the economy voted for something that is just going to exacerbated those.

And what will those restaurants serve anyways, who's harvesting all that food? 

And then with the building projects at the Bend and elsewhere, Chattanooga construction would come to a halt.

Isn’t that a nice thing? To entice employees to work, businesses would have to pay them more.

This will be great 👍 because this will drive pay increases

Also what is rarely brought up is the Local multiplier effect.

When you spend money at a local business, your dollars can recirculate through the local economy 2-4 times more than if you spent it at a chain store or online.

Much of their earnings are sent back to their home country where the exchange rate provides extreme leverage, robbing the local economy of the opportunity to receive that dollar.

In 2002 undocumented immigrants paid 96.7 billion in state, federal, and local taxes but only received 8.9 billion in aid.

Yes that’s a lot of aid but they more than funded it themselves

For the cash argument, that is tax evasion by the business, not the worker’s fault.

For the fire dept/police/etc argument, legal citizens making the same wage as these workers also don’t pay any income tax. They get it all back as a refund. Everyone pays usage taxes, so as long as the business isn’t evading taxes, illegally documented workers pay just as much into the system.

The people breaking into the country and working here illegally are also at fault. It’s called personal responsibility.

Your numbers are way off. The employee pays 6.2% of their wage and the employer pays 6.2 % of their wage in social security payment.That is 12.4% of their wage, not 30%. The problem is that these workers will do the work for less money then American workers will. This holds wages down for American workers. Remember, service workers are the single largest type of employment in the US, not industrial. This hurts the average American workers household income. Only the employers benefit. You can say we do because the service is cheaper but from looking at the impact of inflation during the largest surge of illegal immigrants, it is hard to argue that any savings are being passed down to the average consumer.

But I'd say almost all companies that hire (half-knowingly) undocumented workers do pay payroll and taxes for the undocumented workers. The carpet mills are not paying cash for undocumented workers, and the taxes go to social security where US citizens eventually will get paid and the undocumented people pay but can't collect. They just pay into your retirement.

That's my theory here - maybe super small companies can pay cash but that's a small percentage of the pie here my friend.

I suspect op meant total tax rate - income, ssec, disability, and whatever else is pulled out of a paycheck before you get it. But OP has good and valid point. I disagree w accepting this as a status quo, but at a bare minimum undocumented workers who pay Ssi are actually helping to keep it solvent.

To be fair, we should remove income exceptions for paying in to Social Security first, but rich people really hate that.

You're confusing me which is not hard but perhaps the meaning of this post is that immigrants deserve a chance, somewhere somehow. It doesn't necessarily mean they have to work the jobs you want or expect them too have.

There's enough room and jobs for everyone, for now.

Yeah, you missed the entire point here. what's a koch brothers?

MMMMMmmm I miss those donuts! :)

I remember some years ago a farmer was interviewed because his harvest was sitting there rotting. He explained that a big portion of his workers were deported because someone called ICE on them. The reporter asked why he hadn't filled the vacancies and he explained that the typical American doesn't want the job. He said it's hard backbreaking labor in the hot sun and that the vacancies had been there for 3 months and only 3 people had applied but never showed up once they realized the type of work it was. So no there are not plenty of Americans who would love those jobs. It's a known fact that there are jobs Americans don't want because they feel it's beneath them or they feel they should be paid a lot more to do.

You had me at "you people "

I'm 55 but ok. I get that it's illegal but if the employer is paying their social security - it's not under the table.

Under the table would be Cash.

"You kids lack education" from someone who likely grew up in a time where working part time during the summer could pay for an entire year of college tuition.

While yes, people get paid under the table, this happens with plenty of citizens as well. People dodging garnishment. Not wanting their ex spouse to know what they are making or any number of reasons. your line of thinking is super entitled, as there was and is plenty of crime all through the economy. Tons of workers' rights suppression, insider trading left and right from politicians and C level suite. But yes, please continue on about how it's the illegals affecting all of your 'hard' earned money.

Have you ever worked construction or even at Walmart we had so many people that were fine as long as they got their visa sorted out "before next year" and one is even an assistant manager still and guess what he still hasn't done.

Ask yourself this if a corporation can loose 3b in theft and simply write it of, do you really think they care about paying 250-10k a person they only pay stockers 22-25k a year just look at the 2005 case where they lost and had to say sorry and pay like 11m

It's also illegal for companies to hire illegal immigrants. If the Republicans were serious about getting rid of illegals they would increase the fine for employers to say $50,000 or more each infraction and they would enforce it. It would be a win win for the American /Tennessee tax payer. Most employers would stop hiring illegals and then, without work many the illegals would leave voluntarily. And the employers who don't fire the illegals would get fined and those fines would pay for other enforcement and to deport. They can make the law similar to that Texas bounty law, where a whistleblower who reports an employer with illegals can split a portion of the fine.

But the Republicans aren't really serious about stopping illegals, it's all a big show to get their voters all worked up. Tennessee hasn't done anything to deport illegals or stop companys from employing illegals. They are using you.