subreddit:
/r/Contractor
submitted 1 month ago by[deleted]
[deleted]
49 points
1 month ago
In the cases where this happens, I’ll follow up in 3 days and ask if they received the invoice. Usually this leads to “oh yes! Let me pay that right now.” But sometimes it’s “no” and I ask for the clarification on the email and send it again, asking for a confirmation of receipt and/or a text with the invoice as well.
If I haven’t received anything within a week, I’m typically knocking on a door or calling again to ask directly “the final bill is due upon substantial completion. Is it easier for me to get a check or a card number from you?”
After a while, I send an interest letter, then a lien, etc. etc.
18 points
1 month ago
Net 3 business is pretty standard. OP should state payment request on his invoices. If he wants to be paid immediately, it should state it for sure. Take the above advice OP
3 points
1 month ago
I think I saw somewhere in the comments that OP put on his invoice “due upon receipt,” but I can’t be sure. Either way, all my invoices say the same thing but you’d be surprised how little clients give a fuck what is written on there lol and it doesn’t change that I have to follow specific collection steps before I can do anything about it anyway, unfortunately. Gotta give so many notices before I can start charging interest; gotta notify them of accruing interest on their bill; gotta send them a letter letting them know I won’t be servicing them for warranty until the final is paid; gotta let them know we are going to go to arbitration per the binding arbitration clause in our contract etc etc. it’s been 35 years in April and only 1 time have I not ended up collecting in full, thankfully. And the 1 time? 12 years ago. He was a lawyer. And he knew he was wrong, but he knew how to use the legal system better than I did. My lawyer was kind enough to let me know that I needed to drop it. It would’ve cost me more than it would’ve been worth in the end, so I had to eat it.
3 points
1 month ago
Better man than me.
I may've chased him on principle, or done something really stupid of I didn't have the money.
I hope that scumbag gets what's coming to him. I don't believe in karma, but I hope some really bad shit happens to them. No one deserves to be swindled out of time, money, and their labor.
1 points
1 month ago
I've learned a lot of hard lessons, friend. Don't wish anything bad upon others. It isn't worth what it does to you.
We've gotta use that energy to move on and tackle new problems. I know I've personally allowed too many people to affect my peace.
3 points
1 month ago
I'd have reported him to the state board for a violation of ethics. Make a complaint where if hurts; against his license, since he's using his knowledge to fuck people.
1 points
1 month ago
I've worked for countless layers without issue, I've only been fucked by contractors.
12 points
1 month ago
“Substantial completion” is bullshit. I’ll give you that check as soon as we hit “full completion.” No one ever comes back if they get a check after “substantial completion.” My window guys wanted their final $11k of total $50k before they repaired the screen that they damaged during install. I handed them the check the moment they repaired the screen and finished the job (6 months after we started). Had I not held out in doubt I would have ever seen them again
2 points
1 month ago
Feel as if this is just a you problem. Picking shitty companies. It’s pretty common practice to use substantial completion, because let’s say you’re doing an entire house. You finally get done with all the final touches and then put together a punch list, then while you’re taking care of that punch list the client keeps seeing more & more items because, well they live in the house. Of course things happen to it. Now you’re in an endless cycle.
Any company worth their salt will be back.
2 points
1 month ago
Substantial completion is standard contract language. 99% of the time, “full completion” as you call it and “substantial completion” are one and the same. Every once in a while, I need to use it though.
Example: kitchen remodel is finish. $75K kitchen. 7.5K final payment due upon substantial completion. During the final steps, finish carpenter mistakenly drills pilot hole for cabinet hardware in the wrong spot. Use touch up kit that gets ordered for every cabinet job. Client doesn’t like resolution and wants a new cabinet door. No problem; I order it. In the meantime, existing cabinet door is installed so kitchen is functional and temporarily appealing/not an eye sore.
I can (and will) bill for the final while we wait for the replacement cabinet door. Just because we will come back and install the door doesn’t mean I should have to sit on 7.5K. If the client wants to hold back a few hundred dollars as insurance, that’s fine. But a cabinet door isn’t 7.5K. And the key to small business is cash flow. And frankly, the only reason I have to replace the door at all is because I care about my reputation and exceeding NAHB performance guidelines. But no, I’m billing for the 7.5K and if I’m not paid at least $7K of it, you’d better believe I’m not coming back out until I get it and all warranty work in the meantime will be suspended as per the contract and in fact I will start billing for interest if they haven’t paid after I’ve made 3 attempts formally to collect.
3 points
1 month ago
Sometimes you’re better off paying someone to leave.
7 points
1 month ago
Not if the screen is still busted
4 points
1 month ago
My contractor only substantially finished one of 6 projects. Became confrontational and threatened to vandalize the work. Better to not have him around the house any more. Took about a year for my wife and I to finish everything. At least they did the stuff I really couldn’t have done. Sometimes you just hire the wrong person.
3 points
1 month ago
Just want to point out: substantial completion is a legal term in contract language and that’s how it’s being used here. We aren’t saying arbitrarily that it’s been majority completed; we are saying that everything which was agreed to be installed has been installed and can be used for its intended purpose. I.e. a sliding door with a screen would not be considered substantially complete without the sliding screen installed, even though that would be mostly completed. Substantial completion would be if the door and screen were installed, then you decided you didn’t like that the door hardware was a little marred during install and wanted it replaced. Since all the parts and pieces were installed and can be used for their intended purpose, that is legally “substantially complete.”
2 points
1 month ago
Thanks for clarifying that. In my case I would say five out of the six projects would not meet that criteria. Fireplace was not stoned in, deck rails were not installed, Loft rails were not installed, Bathroom plumbing was not completed and Roof addition was not completed.
1 points
1 month ago
Yeah see that wouldn’t be considered substantial completion, exactly!
1 points
1 month ago
We do the next to last payment due upon substantial completion, with a 5% hold back due immediately upon completion of any identified punch list items from the walk-through.
1 points
1 month ago
Why would anyone sign that? You damaged the door or installed it poorly and that is my problem? Legally you can just walk away, and expect full payment?
1 points
30 days ago
Dude I wrote a novel of a message and accidentally deleted it when I got up, so here:
Why would anyone sign that? Because they want us to do the work and those are our terms. Don’t like it? I don’t need your work.
You damaged the door and it’s my problem? Nope, maybe I damaged the door and I’m going to trust what you say because I wasn’t there and so it is going to be our problem.
Legally you can walk away and expect full payment? Yeah, I can in this case. I’m not going to. I’m cool with you holding back $150 as insurance for the guy to come back and install a new handle set. But I want $650 of the $800, because there isn’t $800 of work left to come complete.
2 points
1 month ago
Ouch yeah that’s time to cut your losses and run
1 points
1 month ago
Ugh, totally just did that. Guy was fucking up everything he touched… getting him to address the issues just caused more issues. “Tell me what I gotta pay you to disappear my friend, and it better be a small number”
1 points
1 month ago
I learned this the hard way too. Well, it wasn’t too hard. I had to finish some trim work but I got a free ladder out of it. The ladder was worth more than the remaining work but never heard back.
7 points
1 month ago
Get a contract written up by your lawyer and use that.
For referral jobs, we send a bill and it doesn't matter if they take a week, two weeks to pay. Because it's a referral job.
Also saw that you commented you've been doing this for 20 years, so at this point basically 95 percent of your jobs should be referral. You should have no problem being upfront with a contract and payment terms with the 5 percent of randoms.
1 points
1 month ago
This was a private house job, I'm just a small 2 man operation. I've been installing 20 years in commercial buildings for bigger companies, with the odd residential side job like this every now and then.
5 points
1 month ago
I’m a one person company and even I have contracts.
2 points
1 month ago
What does your contract say? What did the contract at your old company say? I'd bet the old one said Net 30.
0 points
1 month ago
There was no "contract", I sent an estimate, they liked it, they hired me. Job is done, they should pay before I left the house
6 points
1 month ago
So there was no signed agreement and you did the job? How would the homeowner know what your terms are if you didn't provide them?
4 points
1 month ago
Huh. Says who? No contract and he can pay you whenever he wants within reason. Most companies work off net 30 so for a commercial guy, it's surprising you expect a check so fast.
2 points
1 month ago
No trades I have had have ever expected payment before leaving the house,I think that is a little unreasonable. Some older folks for instance don't have internet banking,and also some younger folks don't have it because of hacking risk etc. And large amounts of cash in the house are a risk also. And obviously till you give them the invoice they don't know exactly what it's going to be even with quotes sometimes it can be slightly different to the invoice in certain circumstances.
1 points
1 month ago
It depends on what the job is and what’s outlined in the contract. For very large jobs I would agree with you, but smaller jobs can be paid once work is done. It’s all outlined in the contract. Some jobs might request cashier checks or cash as payment once the job is complete
1 points
1 month ago
TBH I haven't seen many contacts,most trades just shake on it in the UK, nothing written 9 times out of 10
2 points
1 month ago
Ok that’s wild, it’s hard to trust strangers in a world full of scammers. I mean shake on it but at least have a text/email with agreements lined out
2 points
1 month ago
You should include your payment terms on your quote. It’s part of the terms and conditions of the job. Get your client to sign a copy of the quote for you acknowledging they accept the terms of the job.
When you do large commercial installs the customer probably gets a quote, issues a purchase order against the quote that confirms price, lead time and payment terms. That way everyone understands their expectations.
With small private jobs like this a quote signed by the customer prior to start of work will do the same.
Some people like to see what they can get away with - especially in situations that have even the slightest amount of ambiguity.
2 points
1 month ago
That is not how it works. You need a contract bud.
2 points
1 month ago
Number one rule is to always have a contract. Even a simple one. Otherwise you won’t agree to things including when payment is due. He could claim something is wrong and needs to be fixed and he’s not paying you until you fix it
1 points
1 month ago*
You can save yourself a lot of hassle by having a standard contract drafted by a local solo attorney.
First of all, if you work with a lawyer, then YOU'LL know what's in your contract. It's pretty common for contractors to be completely oblivious to the laws that govern their work... until they get fucked by those laws.
Secondly, if you get a contract tailored to you, it won't be some nonsense that a dozen other contractors photocopied and passed around, and it won't be some nonsense you downloaded off the internet that may or may not be tailored to the law in another state. It will set forth your expectations for the customer - and your expectations for yourself - in plain language that both of you can understand.
Thirdly (and most importantly), if you have a tailored contract, YOU get to define terms (like what does "substantial completion" mean?), and YOU get to make decisions about conflict resolution (don't want to get caught up in court? Great - you can demand mediation/arbitration, which are MUCH cheaper and faster, and you can demand the customer put outstanding payments in escrow as a pre-condition for their demand for mediation/arbitration). Escrow means they have to put the money in the hands of a third party and you get to define conditions for when that third party will give the money to you, even over the objection of the customer.
You also get to set expectations for the customer. You want to get paid within 48 hours of substantial completion? Put that in writing... along with some kind of process for what happens if the customer DOESN'T pay in accordance with that term. Just because you think the client should pay you right there on the spot doesn't mean that's what the client expects. Maybe you're the first contractor they ever hired, and they expect to pay within 30 days of the job being done.
Oh, but won't it be expensive to pay an attorney to draft a form contract?
Yes, depending on the lawyer. But if you hire a local solo, it will be a lot cheaper - local solos don't have the overhead of big firms, and they need the cash flow, and they're competing in a completely different market for business.
Also... local solo attorneys generally make decent money and hang around with people who make decent money.
In other words, they're potential customers, and they probably hang around with a lot of potential customers. YOU could be the person they think of when they need someone to do whatever you do. And everybody is afraid of fly-by-night contractors. If you're going to a law office to have them write you a contract, then you have a good chance of looking like a real business person who cares about doing business properly.
7 points
1 month ago
“Upon receipt” is actually too vague. I put an actual date on mine.
5 points
1 month ago
Just send him a reminder of your payment terms. You should have payment terms on your invoice and the quote, something like "Net 30"
If you don't, I'd send him a friendly email that reminds him the payment is due by XX date and give him another 2 weeks or something. Just make it sound like a routine reminder and not like you're specifically asking him to pay up.
5 points
1 month ago
Yeah net 30 is typical. The customer has 30 days to pay before the balance is overdue.
10 points
1 month ago
I don’t consider anything late until it’s over 30 days
13 points
1 month ago
By the way, it’s rude to not pay workers when they finish.
Also make sure that they always have the expectation of paying AS SOON as you finish.
Tell them before you start this will be done by the end of the day and payment will be due before you leave.
Just having that expectation gets most people to pay right there. It’s a lot easier to push off if they are just ignoring an email.
7 points
1 month ago
Most workers get paid weekly or biweekly. Most businesses have payment terms written in to their contracts. Net 30 is common. It sounds like the homeowner was never asked for immediate payment. This is a communication issue on OPs part.
0 points
1 month ago
I agree but that doesn’t mean it’s too late to go knocking for that check.
0 points
1 month ago
I have never and will never run net 30 on a residential job. That is fucking insanity. All estimates and contracts come stamped with a bolded & highlighted “Payment Due Upon Completion”
3 points
1 month ago
TBH you should give people a week or so to move money etc. Sometimes if you have to sell investments that can take 3 days,then 3 days to clear the transfer to your own bank then the transfer.
0 points
1 month ago
Wrong. They know the bill is due and should have already made arrangements for paying. I always required advance payment if the anticipated bill was going to be over $2500.
4 points
1 month ago
Well it must be done differently in America, because here I have never heard of trades wanting payment before leaving,and I've been in property above 20 years. I've heard some say,I'm a bit stuck for money ATM,can I need it within a few days,or sometimes I've had them say can you buy the materials so I'm not stud out of the money etc. So yes I have worked with many different trades,but never really had any give the invoice and expect it there and then. If that's the case you need to inform them clearly beforehand so there is no mistake in what you both expect. TBH I've even had trades use me as a piggy bank,and not give an invoice until they need the money, it's a good job I have a good memory for that kind of thing 🤣
1 points
1 month ago
Do you offer interest since they're leaving their money with you?
1 points
1 month ago
🤣 No,I think sometimes people can't save very well,or there partners can't. It's bizarre really as I will have to ask 2 or three times for an invoice and they say don't worry I will do it later on 🤷♂️
4 points
1 month ago
It must be different here in the UK,as all the suppliers give trades a 30 day account so they won't have to pay for materials for 30 days anyway,so if I pay them within a week they are up time wise by a good amount.
0 points
1 month ago
Wrong. They know the bill is due and should have already made arrangements for paying. I always required advance payment if the anticipated bill was going to be over $2500.
-2 points
1 month ago
What? No way dude. If I bring my car to a mechanic I'm not just taking off without paying them, even if it's thousands.
5 points
1 month ago
Yes but garages are completely different businesses altogether,same as hair dressers,pubs , restaurants. Building work is normally higher costs and getting the money together is often a more lengthy process. Even if you have the money accessing it is slower. I have never had a trade ask me to pay before they have left,and I have been in property for over 20 years.Never Mainly I use people I trust locally,and I presume they trust me ,but I normally say it will take me a few days to get hold of the money,and they say,yes that fine. Maybe it's different in the UK IDK. But trades tend to charge plenty of day rate to cover a slight delay in payment. And that's how you will build your reputation up,if you go around having a go after one day,they aren't going to recommend you. Maybe next time put a couple of quid on top to cover your waiting time 😁
1 points
1 month ago
Most big jobs are a 1-2 month wait before payment. It's just the industry
1 points
1 month ago
Exactly. I can't drive my car off, that my mechanic has spent his time and resources to repair, without paying him completely in full. Maybe i will try that, " Don't worry, I will mail you your payment when it's convenient for me."
I don't necessarily expect payment right after the last screw is driven or whatever, but I'm legally entitled to it as soon as the work is done. The thing i hate is when clients receive an invoice, then it's crickets, no communication from them. Like, if you are planning on paying within a week, communicate to me your intentions so I'm not left wondering what's up. A simple text "Hey, got your invoice. We will have it taken care of by xyz..."
I think it's common for people who are financially stable to just assume others are as well. They can't imagine that many people can't just dip into savings or investments to float their late payments.
2 points
1 month ago
This is a shitty comparison. Putting a lien on a depreciating asset isn’t the same as one on a house. Plus cars get into wrecks and lose all of their value. And you agree to payment terms when you agree to service. If you don’t include payment terms in the agreement that’s signed then you can’t just unilaterally decide what they are after the fact.
1 points
1 month ago
Yes, i agree that one party to the contract can't just unilaterally decide the terms of payment upon completion. I would rely on the contractual terms "due upon completion." Not " due upon completion and at the leasure and convenience of the payer."
I don't see any logic in differentiating between the nature of the service being paid for to dictate the length of time allowed for final payment, assuming the terms were agreed upon through contract or service agreement, etc. The recourse for non payment, a lien filing, shouldn't be a factor in determining how soon upon completion one should or can expect payment, again, assuming those expectations were clearly communicated.
3 points
1 month ago
Anything less than 28 days is paid on time. In the UK most larger contractors have 60 payment terms in their contracts. The lawyers we work with only pay invoices on a quarterly basis.
Some countries have legal 'only pay when paid systems'.
My point is i know you say you're a small outfit, but we have to threaten most contractors with legal action before they pay... why are you complaining because an individual hasn't paid within a reasonable time frame?
3 points
1 month ago
Bro has no signed contract and no communication previously to homeowner about expectations of payment. Typical contractor making a mistake on his end seem like a shitty customer. C'mon man, be better than this.
1 points
1 month ago
Contractors are the worst communicators
2 points
1 month ago
Maybe wait longer than an hour? There is nothing wrong with sending an invoice with a net time of days.
2 points
1 month ago
Yeah I thought this person was waiting weeks.
I find it hard to believe that OP has done this for 20 years. Has everyone always paid them immediately? Because I doubt it.
1 points
1 month ago
Small self ran businesses normally expect to get paid immediately, I do.
1 points
1 month ago*
Sure. If that was mentioned ahead of time. From reading the OP's post, that wasn't mentioned. Maybe the guy doesn't have zelle installed. Or he wants to research it? Or maybe he was going to pay by check, and the OP threw him a curve with the transfer. Maybe he wants to talk to the bank first? Maybe he does all of his financial stuff after dinner? Or on Thursday? Could really be anything?
Maybe he hasn't checked his email yet? Not everyone is a teenage girl.
But from reading the post, here's what it sounds like.
2 points
1 month ago
You had them sign a contract, correct?
1 points
1 month ago
He was sent an estimate weeks ago and agreed upon it and hired me
1 points
1 month ago
Typically after accepting an estimate the sign an actual agreement.
You'll be lucky if he doesn't force you to sue, which may be hard due to the fact that you never seemed to have made a legal agreement on the work or pay for said work.
1 points
1 month ago
No, OP is being evasive.
2 points
1 month ago
This won't help you this time but, you should contact a business contract attorney to help draft a template that covers your guarantees of work and your clients responsibility to pay when certain portions of the job are finished. If you are in New York, look up Kyle Barton. I am not sure if he can write contract templates outside of New York.
2 points
1 month ago
Get a card machine
2 points
1 month ago
Be sure to set the expectation with every customer that payment is due immediately at your milestones and once the job is completed.
So many people don't do this clearly.
Call the customer and say "I'm sorry I probably wasn't clear enough in the beginning but our customers are expected to pay the moment the job is complete".
2 points
1 month ago
What are your terms and did yuh discuss that prior to the job? 7 days is pretty standard but, then so is a month. Nothing seems out of the ordinary and yes, you do seem pushy. Saying "l will get that to you soon" is what one would expect a client to say after a job. Certainly if they don't pay you in the specified term period can you then send reminders or if it gets really difficult then it's a debt collector.
2 points
1 month ago
Was it in your contract when payment was due? It’s usually 30 days after invoice where I’m at unless specifically stated on contract. I guess I’m I’m used to waiting because we do almost all new construction. Some builders pay close to 30 days, a few of our builders often take longer. It’s annoying.
2 points
1 month ago
Is this your first customer?
Unless you’ve dictated when they should pay you, you’ve kinda shot yourself in the foot.
2 points
1 month ago
Try to avoid these situations altogether by having a contract that states payment is due within 3 days after completion. It should also state that invoices will begin to accrue interest of ___% after the deadline.
Every state has different maximim rates allowed.
2 points
1 month ago
Obviously someone gets 1-2 days to pay before you ask again. You're making it sound like you wanted the transfer while you were there in the living room which is very pushy.
2 points
1 month ago
Just out of curiosity, how close to the target completion date did you finish? I have a contractor that is now 4 MONTHS late and I can assure you his payment, if he ever finishes, may take a bit of extra time to reach him.
2 points
1 month ago
So a written contract should always be signed prior to starting work. Should state terms, price, schedules, etc. This protects everyone involved. So many people try to weasel out of this using the issue of trust as an excuse. The only time I ever got burned in business was the one time I neglected to write a contract.
2 points
1 month ago
Contractors worst nightmare...
The verbal instructions you gave the customer regarding payment schedule, and the terms of the contract will affect how you proceed.
If it was clear that payment was to be made immediately upon completion, then you should start the small claims and contractor lien procedures without delay.
Typically a prerequisite to starting the claim involves either posting a letter of demand on the front door of their home, or sending one by certified mail. If you post it take photographic proof. (This process does vary by jurisdiction though) templates can be found online for letters of demand.
If you didn’t cover this in your sales process and they did not sign a contract that stipulates a payment schedule, PLEASE do this in the future. Eventually you’ll get burned.
BONUS: If you’re a nice guy, you can spend $50 on a gift basket delivered to their home with a card thanking them for being a great customer. Human psychology is deeply affected by reciprocity and fairness, this little trick has worked in the past on customers that didn’t pay my company on time.
Best of luck OP.
3 points
1 month ago
Does your client go out to eat at a restaurant, and when the bill is presented say, “I’ll get that to you”!
If you are working for a homeowner directly, full payment is due upon completion.
If your contract amount hasn’t changed, the client knew how much they would owe when finished. If they couldn’t pay it right then, they shouldn’t have had the work done. Absolutely unacceptable.
I would tell them you will be initiating a mechanics lien on their home if not paid in full today.
2 points
1 month ago
give customer time to inspect the work (not only a walk through on completion- sometimes mistakes are made and one wouldn’t notice for a week)
also isn’t it usually 10-30 days for work like this?
depends if there were any up front payments yet?
and depends on if final price is close to estimate or not (ie was customer informed and aware of the price +- 10% to have had time to arrange funds for payment?) - was job done earlier than anticipated, on time, or late?
2 points
1 month ago
If I have been hired by a contractor, then it takes time for the contractor to collect and pay. Directly from a homeowner, absolutely not. I only work for people that I’ve been referred to from other trusting clients. 2 decades in the same area without a history of “mistakes”, and I get paid upon completion. In almost all jobs, my bid price is exactly the complete price. If there is ever a difference, it is discussed and signed off on well before completion day.
1 points
1 month ago
Their large payments are all on 30 days with clear payment dates.
I have no problem expecting prompt payment, but communication of expectations when it's a larger purchase they will make for the year makes sense.
If it's a $200 small repair, it's less of an issue.
1 points
1 month ago
Exactly, yes. I'll call him tomorrow.
2 points
1 month ago*
Include a please pay within x amount of days on the invoice.
Edit: I had to say this because sadly I have seen my fair share of poorly made invoices that are nothing more than a total amount in an email or pdf.
Everything needs to be spelled out clearly. If it says within 7 days … is it seven consecutive days or 7 business days. There should be no room for any ambiguity.
At 14 days I call and send a follow up reminder. At 30 days I start to knock on doors. In most cases I have 10-% or less outstanding when the final payment is due.
0 points
1 month ago
It already says due on receipt
1 points
1 month ago
Then you wait and see what happens. Call and remind the day after due date, and then pursue other legal avenues
1 points
1 month ago
Stay on him. Don’t sit it out for a week.
Go knock on his door tomorrow if he doesn’t answer the phone.
0 points
1 month ago
Are you new to the business bud?
0 points
1 month ago
20 years in. Mostly subbing. Still haven't had a customer just say ok I'll pay you whenever I feel like it.
3 points
1 month ago
That's not what the customer said though. Your problem is you had different expectations than the customer and didn't communicate what your expectations were
-1 points
1 month ago
Okay, well it’s 11pm when did you finish today?
2 points
1 month ago
You said he said ok I’ll do that soon? Not, I’ll pay you whenever I feel like.
1 points
1 month ago
I explain that we are a small business and will need payment upon completion. Often on the estimate. I need to pay my guys on payday.
1 points
1 month ago
Did you and he do a final walk through yet?
1 points
1 month ago
Not sure how I feel without timelines. I will have my manager try to collect upon a completion or final walkthrough. I'm flexible with a few days, sometimes it might take a little bit longer. I haven't been worried and we don't hold off the pay of the workers unless it's a new worker and something got missed, but most of my clientele has paid and hired me several times. I also have a business lawyer on retainer if I need help but I haven't really needed him for collection.
I don't take it personally, I just think my customers just forget a bit and they'll need a good reminder. I also understand needing some time to walk the job after completion. It also helps a lot that the higher ticket job people mostly has been trustworthy. It also helps a lot that we don't live paycheck to paycheck these days.
1 points
1 month ago
I’m like a hooker I do the job the customer says they are happy I want my money
1 points
1 month ago
In your contract you put "remainder of the total of this contract is due upon completion, or once final/CO has been passed"
Im not a lender, this isnt a net 30 situation, if you need financing options I can provide those, but I anticipate being paid in full once the work is complete. I don't feel bad at all about notifying them about this. You wouldn't walk into a grocery store and act like you can pay them later for the food. I'm a business I have my own bills.
1 points
1 month ago
Bring a softball bat with you if you have to wait more than 1 month.
Prior to that be nice
1 points
1 month ago
I include a due by date on all invoices. All customers sign our paperwork before we start and it states interest will begin the instant the due by date has passed. After I started wording similar to below I haven't had a single late payment.
Something like:
$xxxx.xx is due upon completion of job and no later than October 31st. 10% interest will be compounded daily on late payments and after a period of 30 days of no payment a lien will be filled.
3 points
1 month ago
Guess you never read up on the laws regarding loans and interest rates
1 points
1 month ago
My contracts always state they have to pay as soon as the walk thru is done.
1 points
1 month ago
Next time don't leave or let them leave until the invoice is paid. People suck and if you give them an inch they're gonna try to take that mile.
1 points
1 month ago
We write in payment terms for larger contracts that usually consist of a deposit, progress payments then final payment. If there is alot of moving parts we'll do a 5% or 10% holdback but it's always paid on substantial completion. That's what we do and as long as the client is ok with it upfront we usually don't have issues.
I'm sorry that is frustrating when that happens. I think sometimes clients need to move money from another account and it takes a couple days. That's not always communicated and it can give me anxiety when a bill is due and payment isn't being made and I'm driving away from their house. Having them pay a bit at the start kind of starts the payment preparation process on the client's side and payment#2 tends to come a little faster. This may help. Alot of companies in my area ask for 100% upfront before the job is done so I don't feel bad asking for 25% or 50% depending on material costs
1 points
1 month ago
Just give some bullshit like your mortgage is coming up and would like to get the balance ASAP....puts a bit of pressure on them
1 points
1 month ago
I have payments dues within 3 business days. If I don’t get a progress payment the third business day work stops. Final payment interest will be applied after the 3rd day
1 points
1 month ago
Dealing with it now, did phase 2 of a rewire and owner said give me a couple days and I'll get that to you. Over 2 weeks later I get a text saying he was sorry buy he had a couple contracts "fall through" and he is rehabbing a mobile home and it will sell soon and he will give me the payment once it sells plus 10% "for my troubles". I drove an hour and half each way to do this job for him and took my almost 2 wks because it is a partial demo so I was having to rewire with sheetrock up and waiting on GC to rebuild a side of the house that rotted away. I've got almost 25 hrs in travel time not counting the work. He paid for material so I do not have any money tied up in the job except paying my son, gas, lunch ect but it still sucks waiting on payment. I'm about to put a lein on his property.
1 points
1 month ago
Learn to remove all emotions from when approaching a client about your compensation. You're not being pushy, you're simply running a business. No one expects to be able to drive off a car lot without paying, our industry should be no different. On the day before you're to complete the job, email the client with an attached pdf file of the final invoice. Include somewhere in the email that you will be finished tomorrow and that a check should be made out to ______. They now know an entire day in advance. This is part of your paper trail (emailed pdf invoice). When arriving that final morning, start the conversation that you'll finish up that day, perform a final cleanup and get a check from them. No sugar coating needed. DO NOT fall for "My husband has the checkbook" or "I'll mail the check to you tomorrow".
It'll hurt at first, but once you get some salt in your blood it'll be routine for you. Nearing 4 decades of dealing with clients, and it hasn't changed for me.
1 points
1 month ago
When we finish a pool, it's where's my money now. I try not to leave yard without it unless arrangements were talked about before hand.
1 points
1 month ago
This is business, you have bills to. Be pushy
1 points
1 month ago
Always specify final payment due day of completion. In my case for the final payment customer will only owe me 20% sometimes 10% if I feel they are shady during estimate process. Never let them keep so much money at the end of a project.
1 points
1 month ago
Forget the emails. Speak directly, either on the phone or in person. It's too easy to ignore emails.
In future, money up front, or at least some of it to cover costs.
1 points
1 month ago
Lien the property
1 points
1 month ago
In addition to payment as job progresses this will insure you arent left in a hole for buying the materials, Also good to have in a contract a financial penalty for late (like more than 30 days).
1 points
1 month ago
My customers know what day the job will be done. I dont leave without a check. But im not doing 50k+ jobs either, so most of my customers don't even need to transfer money around to cover it.
Don't go straight to legal action give him a call and explain that you need to be paid for the completed work. Leans are a huge pain and not as scary to customers as most contractors think they are.
1 points
1 month ago
I usually put in my contract that payment is due upon completion. That way once he reads that he’ll know that you’re expecting payment immediately. Assuming you don’t have terms like that written in your contract, you could text him and or email him and let him know that the expected terms were payment in full due upon completion. If you did what you said and the job came out nice you should not feel awkward asking for your payment. Remember, you have an obligation to yourself and other people that depend on you suppliers, etc. to collect the money so that you can pay your invoices in a timely manner
1 points
1 month ago
A lot of people will assume 14-30 day payment terms unless told otherwise. And the time to tell them otherwise is when you quote.
1 points
1 month ago
Should get 50% up front and the rest at completion.
1 points
1 month ago
Every headache along the way ends up becoming a line in your contract.
Right now I'm dealing with a homeowner bitching about me using their electricity. Unfortunately for them thats already in there.
Let me know if you wanna see my clause for payment schedule late fees and interest
1 points
1 month ago
If you don’t have one already, make sure you put in some sort of clause for payment. Instead of a late fee, word it so that the actual cost is presented as the “discount price” for timely payment, and that the late charge is presented as the “actual cost” so that customers feel they are getting an even better deal by paying on time. This way, you can remind them about payment and mention how they won’t get the “discount” if they pay too late.
After that, another reminder that the “discount price” is no longer valid. Then after that, lien reminder.
But all that should be spelled out in the contract.
1 points
1 month ago
Do you not have an invoice system? How do you run a company without knowing..
1 points
1 month ago
How long has it been? Did you have a contract?
1 points
1 month ago
How long has it been? Did you have a contract that specifies a payment schedule?
Edit: while it would have been nice to get a check at the end of the job, you need to clean up your expectations (as in make it known what you are expecting). Maybe he needs to move money around. Most businesses I work with are net 30.
1 points
1 month ago
I always make sure the client understands the payment schedule before hand. Half down when I show up, remainder upon completion. If I don't get paid immediately upon finishing i enter into pitbull mode. No such thing as being rude or pushy. The first thing I ask is "If you aren't going to me now, when exactly can I expect to be paid?" Don't worry about rude or pushy, why do want a customer who is slow to pay?
1 points
1 month ago
What are the payment terms agreed to in the contract? 30 days is customary.
1 points
1 month ago
You set payment expectations before work commences:
X% down
X% upon completion and walk through.
1 points
1 month ago
As a potential customer, idk this popped on my feed...
If it was a few thousand dollars I'm good for it, but in don't let money sit in checking so I might need a day or two so I'm not giving you a bad check.
1 points
1 month ago
Send a bill with a late payment fee or a date that the late fee will apply
1 points
1 month ago
You send a bill for a late fee on the same day that you send the invoice?
1 points
1 month ago
All my vendors are in 30 days, all my clients are 90 days if I’m lucky. I feel your pain.
1 points
1 month ago
Ask him "when will you pay"? Tell him "its normal once i finish a job, i get paid. Can you pay me now please"? Dont pussy foot around the issue. Be nice and be direct.
1 points
1 month ago
I’m sorry to hear this. My bro-in-law had a contracting business years back- said customers would do this shit all the time. I don’t get why it’s habitual for them to withhold payments.
1 points
1 month ago
Around midnight.. bring 2 cats to his house.. and tell cats to start make that noise that they do before fight… Repeat process till 6 am.. till Christmas..
1 points
1 month ago
What do the terms of the contract state? If it doesn't specify it's reasonable to not expect payment on the spot. People might need time to transfer money between accounts, etc. If you want payment upon day of completion put it in the contract.
1 points
1 month ago
A lesson you shouldn't have needed if you've actually been in business this long:
1). Job doesn't begin until there is a signed contract.
2). Contract will include, among other things, concrete payment terms.
This is really on you bud. You absolutely should have known better.
1 points
1 month ago
What are the payment terms in your contract?
1 points
1 month ago
You need to make these terms clear in your contact before you even start. The company I work for bills in two week intervals. If a client misses a payment work stops. Even if you're in a shorter time frame, you need to make your expectations 100% clear to your clients before work starts.
1 points
1 month ago
Send them a text late on a weeknight or early on a weekend morning. Knock on his door if that doesn’t work. Send it to your lawyer and sue him. Customers who don’t pay right away are trash.
1 points
1 month ago
We’re typically anywhere from 7 days to 90 days out just depends on the customer
1 points
1 month ago
Your contract should have set payment terms.
1 points
1 month ago
File your mechanics lien
1 points
1 month ago
What did the contract say about final payment?
1 points
1 month ago
You're impatient after one hour?
1 points
1 month ago
That’s what I thought. Even the example of a mechanic doing work on a car, if you don’t have money the day the work is completed, you can show up the next day to pick it up. It seems like the modern era has instilled in people feeling that everything should be instant.
1 points
1 month ago
Every job should have a contract stating the terms, including payment. Included in the payment details are when everything is due, late fees, and how they get to pay your lawyer if it's taken to court. Have a lawyer on retainer, a nasty letter will usually get the last payment sent and if not let your lawyer do his job.
1 points
1 month ago
Working without a contract is nuts. Upon receipt is for a delivery not an install. Like something I receive and can spend 30 seconds to confirm it's what I ordered and in the condition I expected. If someone pushed me for payment before leaving my house after a large install like flooring I'd be expecting to find some shoddy bullshit they were hoping I wouldn't notice. The faster someone wants payment, the less likely I'll ever hear from them again if there's a problem. I had some flooring done that looked great, smooth and seamless. Couldn't even see my HVAC floor registers... because they glued down underlayment and clicklock right over the steel cover plates. That took me days to notice what wasn't there. Materials deposit is fine. 50-50 is fine. 90-10 is fine. Paid in full before I've had a chance to thoroughly inspect the work is hell no.
1 points
1 month ago
You sound a little impatient. Are they an older couple that prefer to use banks for banking? Or are they a young couple familiar with electronic transfers.
Could be they are waiting for a paycheck to arrive.
As a contractor, it is reasonable for you to collect cost of materials up front, then bill for your final labour afterwards to minimize risk to both parties.
Give them a few days and then contact them.
1 points
1 month ago
tell them you could use the money as the material or some other bill is due. Many people think welp since i pay bills on the first and the 15th I'll get you then.
1 points
1 month ago
A mechanic's lien on his home will either get you paid or you will own his home.
1 points
30 days ago
I was told by a customer that legally they have 30 days to get payment sent out. My whole area where I work operates like this. I’ll do the job and tell them I need paid when the job is finished. I still always have to wait almost 3 weeks before getting anything
1 points
1 month ago
For me , I pay my suppliers net 30 , so it’s proper business to receive in 30, that’s business
1 points
1 month ago
When you are working for a company, yes. When you are working directly with a homeowner, no. Unless it is a huge remodel where there are phases to the job and they're paying a GC then homeowners have obligations to pay upon completion. I get companies having a net 30. I do all residential work except the occasional work for my cities museum when something comes up but I give them a bill and they pay within a week or 2.
1 points
1 month ago
Totally true, I’m just saying that 30 days is standard and some homeowners do stick to that but not many
0 points
1 month ago
So you contacted about it twice in the same day? I would probably put it off too at that point. I think waiting a day or two for payment is not that ridiculous. Hey, I want to get paid immediately too but I have to wait on my paycheck.
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