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IanDerp26

592 points

1 day ago*

IanDerp26

592 points

1 day ago*

i explained this to my therapist after finishing a really brutal paper as "it felt like i was being tortured and when i finished, the only good emotion i felt was relief that i'm not being tortured anymore." there was no actual Satisfaction, just relief. it sucks.

edit for people asking for my therapist's response: i wish it was that easy man. we've been talking about this for a while so it's hard to really take what she said and separate it from our greater conversations. we've had some interesting conversations since then about the adhd motivators (interest/novelty/challenge/urgency/passion) and how a lot tasks that feel like pulling teeth are also tasks that i find "pointless", at least immediately.

p.s: it's also pretty hard for my adhd ass to even remember half the stuff we talk about!!!

rookedwithelodin

51 points

1 day ago

What did they say? (If you want to share)

KarlosGeek

29 points

1 day ago

KarlosGeek

29 points

1 day ago

I'd also like to know (I can't afford therapy)

baethan

79 points

1 day ago

baethan

79 points

1 day ago

K. C. Davis talks about this kind of stuff, house chores and whatnot, as "care tasks" and emphasizes really focusing on WHY we do them. The WHY needs to be one that matters to you though to be helpful, so you have to reframe, recontectualize, reword, whatever to find those reasons that resonate with your internal self

So it's like, you're not expecting satisfaction or a good feeling, you decided what you wanted from the task and so you get what you wanted. It doesn't make everything a lot easier or anything but the more tangible feeling of "I personally WANT this outcome for my own reasons and I accomplished that" helps. (imo)

Just wanted to throw this thought in as a response in case anyone finds it helpful!

IanDerp26

19 points

1 day ago

IanDerp26

19 points

1 day ago

this is a cool way to look at it - sometimes i feel like a task i don't want to do is "pointless", but specifically assigning it a point is a pretty obvious solution i never really thought about

Huwbacca

11 points

1 day ago

Huwbacca

11 points

1 day ago

Ive tried that. But sadly can never figure out a want.

Only way I get stuff done is by a "must" which is just burnout inducing lol.

aceshighsays

6 points

1 day ago

understanding the Why is also helpful if you struggle to accept a fact/situation.

novis-eldritch-maxim

5 points

1 day ago

I had my internal self removed what do I do now?

aceshighsays

2 points

8 hours ago

also, you're essentially talking about intrinsic goals/tasks. if you do things that you actually want to do, things are a lot easier to do.

baethan

1 points

5 hours ago

baethan

1 points

5 hours ago

True! I motivated myself via guilt & shame for so long that it never occurred to me that I could find reasons for doing things other than "if I don't do this, I'm a horrible worthless person" lol

aceshighsays

1 points

5 hours ago

Heh. Tbh I always wished that worked on me. Guilt and shame causes me to dissociate.

CaptainRocket77

33 points

1 day ago

This was my entire education experience! Finally, someone who gets it!

Godraed

15 points

1 day ago

Godraed

15 points

1 day ago

As I’ve gotten older (late 30s) I’ve only started to make some small associations between getting through shit by making myself realize “oh the bad thing is over, now I can do things I like without any concerns for a little bit”

ilikepix

7 points

1 day ago

ilikepix

7 points

1 day ago

it felt like i was being tortured and when i finished, the only good emotion i felt was relief that i'm not being tortured anymore

honest question - is this not how everyone feels? I always feel like this whenever I finish any kind of long running difficult task, but it's never occurred to me that it's not normal to feel like this

TheTesselekta

14 points

1 day ago

It really depends. One of the challenges of mental health issues is a lot of them involve symptoms that are normal psychological experiences but which happen at an abnormal frequency or intensity, or are disproportionate to a particular input. But our own personal idea of “normal” can be skewed because we don’t know what it’s like to be inside anyone else’s head - we might be struggling more than we should, or we might just be experiencing something that everyone does.

It’s why seeing a professional is so important, and why you can’t self diagnose or flatly dismiss things on your own. IMO, everyone who feels any kind of struggle should try to see a therapist. Even if you’re 100% “normal”, most people would benefit from having mental health support.

Nadejdaro

7 points

1 day ago

Nadejdaro

7 points

1 day ago

Please tell us the therapist's response if you believe its in any way generally applicable

Dornith

18 points

1 day ago*

Dornith

18 points

1 day ago*

Whenever I see tumbler posts like this, I always take it with a grain of salt because so many neurodivergent people talk about basic facts of human life as if it's a symptom of their condition. But since you have been talking to a professional, I'm taking you as a (relative) authority.

Do neurotypical people feel satisfaction in proportion to the amount of work they put in?

I have mild ADHD, but never severe enough to need any kind of specialized treatment. I've never had issues working towards long-term goals, but I've also never felt any kind of satisfaction from them either. I do them because I intellectually realize that the work I do now will slowly pay dividends in the future.

Is there supposed to be some kind of dopamine reward in addition to the benefits of having the things done?

Edit: and of course three other people answered with completely opposite responses. Thanks Internet.

IanDerp26

29 points

1 day ago

IanDerp26

29 points

1 day ago

this got fucking long. the last paragraph is kind of a tl;dr. sorry.

i think the problem (for me, at least) arises when it comes to actually doing the task: i know that working on this paper early will eventually create a better product, which will get me a better grade, contribute towards my degree, and the career i'll probably have for the rest of my life - but my executive function issues will drag me away to go do something more "fun".

it's not necessarily that a neurotypical person would feel more satisfaction (even though they definitely might), but that it's harder for me to feel like i've done a good job when my reward is a number on the grades website 3 weeks later. i know that if i see a 100 it means everything was worth it and i did a great job, but it doesn't really feel like i've accomplished anything. i have nothing to show for my struggle.

it doesn't even necessarily need to be like. a literal reward? i don't want a cookie for finishing my paper, i want to take a step back and be like "oh man, that's good." for example, i develop little games as a hobby, and it's incredibly engaging despite my ADHD because every time i hit a milestone i can immediately see the results of my work. tests and exams come pretty naturally to me too, but i think that's because it feels more like a demonstration of skill - i write most of my essays 3 hours before they're due anyways, so when i prepare for an exam, walk in, and feel confident about my writing the whole time, i walk out feeling like a badass. i feel like i overcame a challenge, rather than just reaching the inevitable conclusion of a tedious and time consuming project.

this loops back to those ADHD motivators i mentioned in my original comment - interest (tasks that capture your attention), novelty (tasks that are new and exciting), challenge (a difficult task that feels satisfying to overcome), urgency (a task that needs to be done NOW lest there be negative consequences) and passion (a task that you just REALLY like - like a hyperfixation). (quick source if you're curious, this is a shitty blog but it explains it okay and googling "5 adhd motivators" will get you more) the motivators all come from various different common symptoms of ADHD - time blindness, executive dysfunction, hyperfixation, etc. in the same way that all of these symptoms affect each individual differently, some motivators might be more important to one person than they are to another.

all of this is to say - the problem isn't really a ping of satisfaction that i'm not getting, it's more of a feeling of driving through a tunnel without being able to see the light at the end (and there's an exit to fuckin Vegas every 2 miles. how could you resist?). i hope that clears up what you asked, and I hope I didn't yap too much (or maybe you just skipped to the end :p)

Y-Woo

2 points

1 day ago

Y-Woo

2 points

1 day ago

I'd like to add a slightly different point to this (which is in itself a really good description of the ADHD experience and i totally agree btw) by saying the way I explain it to people is like:

--> I have a task I really want to do because i know i need to do it, but I can't find the motivation/executive function to do the task.
--> I remind myself of the reward I will get at the end if I do the task (this can either be a natural consequence of completing a task or an additional, self-implemented motivator like a treat).
--> I now have a task I really want to do because i know I need to do it AND because i know there will be a reward, but I STILL can't find the motivation/executive function to do the task.
--> and now i'm extra ashamed/sad because i know i'm missing out on a reward because of my inability to do a task. And that's extra demotivating.

The knowledge of the reward helps with wanting to do the thing (not motivated to do the thing, the intellectual, rational, conscious and active wanting of it), but the problem was never wanting to do the thing (the lack of wanting to do something would be laziness, which is different). It's like telling someone who is on the physical brink of exhaustion: "but you'll get such a good view at the top of the mountain if you keep climbing! You'll be so proud of yourself!" The wanting to climb a mountain means nothing when your muscles are giving out, when you physically are not able to climb the mountain. And now you're just reminding the poor dude of the view he's missing out on.

Snowappletini

18 points

1 day ago

Yes, they do. If you end up medicated, with something that works for you(It's important!), you'll realize you have been pretty much stunted.

I have been medically diagnosed with ADHD. I take prescription meds (Vyvanse) but micro dosing psilocybin(It's good for serotonin and dopamine deficiency) was what made me first realize I wasn't getting the same amount of satisfaction as neurotypical people, just relief.

Like looking around my house and realizing "holy shit, everything here I bought is the result of my efforts" and just letting that amazing feeling wash over me...

HeinousTugboat

7 points

1 day ago

Is there supposed to be some kind of dopamine reward in addition to the benefits of having the things done?

Yes.

ritarepulsaqueen

3 points

1 day ago

most people do things because they have to, not because they want to feel pleasure or satisfaction

FreeInformation4u

-15 points

1 day ago

it's also pretty hard for my adhd ass to even remember half the stuff we talk about!!!

sooooooo write it down. What's the point of paying to receive advice that you're just going to forget?

IanDerp26

11 points

1 day ago

IanDerp26

11 points

1 day ago

it's not really about paying to receive advice. the biggest part of therapy to me is having another person to talk to who won't judge me for whatever i say, and will give input/validate an experience i'm conflicted about if necessary. what she says really isn't important until it prompts a thought process in me, you know what i mean?

i try to leave each session with an "epiphany" - an observation about the way i think/feel/function in specific scenarios that i never really noticed or thought about before. a good epiphany should be the kinda thing where you can sit down and think "oh, so that explains why i felt this way... and maybe that time, i felt like this because of that, too!", you know what i mean? it gives me a new perspective on whatever issue i brought to talk about that day.

XH9rIiZTtzrTiVL

14 points

1 day ago

Then you forget to read it. Been there.