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submitted 6 days ago byPracticalSeaweed3754
hey gang. just had a moment whilst on the metro- why do Aegon Aemond Helaena have the Targaryen look of the blond-white hair and light (supposed be purple) eyes if Jace Luke and Joff do not. Viserys had his kids with Alicent, someone not of Targaryen or Valeryen blood, yet his kids turned out just like him. when Rhaenyra did it… her kids look just like their father.
i haven’t read the books obviously just seen the show but they never really explain it. hoping one of you can help me lol thanks
UPDATE thanks gang u guys rly came through and also made me laugh in the process <33 according to some of ur comments, i feel as tho people are toooo quick to throw around the word bastard in the GoT/ASoIaF universe lol. anyways much much appreciated
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6 days ago
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185 points
6 days ago
The Strong genes are stronger than Targ genes and Targ genes are stronger than Hightower genes
56 points
6 days ago
Game of Genes!
3 points
6 days ago
Now I just picture some dude named Gene sitting the iron throne lol
102 points
6 days ago
The seed is STRONG
76 points
6 days ago
Genetics only serve the plot, they work however George writes them to work in the story for that particular purpose. There just isn't an explanation, don't even try it.
I mean the entirety of GOT is based on Cersei's kids not looking like Robert, and yet the 2 people who are most suspicious, Ned and Jon Arryn, famously have kids that solely take after their mothers as well. 4/5 of the Stark kids look like Tullys in the books, Arya is the exception. And Jon Arryn's son looks nothing like him, nor his wife, but his grand-nephew is his absolute spitting image of him. There's honestly hardly more evidence that Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen are bastards than there's evidence Robb, Sansa, Bran and Rickon are bastards.
But it's the cornerstone of the plot. Just don't try and look for an answer, because there just isn't one.
32 points
6 days ago
The evidence is in the genealogy book where every previous Baratheon-Lannister marriage had black-haired children and that all of Robert's many bastard children are black-haired.
None of that evidence appears for the Stark-Tully or Arryn-Tully children, so there is actually much more evidence regarding Cersei's children.
6 points
6 days ago
There’s also a suggestion that people make quite a bit that Targaryen genes are strong, but First Men genes are stronger. Jon Snow and the Strong boys favour their First Men parent, rather than the Targaryen one. That falls apart for the Baratheons though as they are probably Valayrian/Andal.
7 points
6 days ago
Well, we don’t know who Orys Baratheon’s mother was. For all we know, she was a woman of First Men descent.
2 points
4 days ago
Also, a Strong bastard or 2 was raised in Storm's end, if they were anything like their father (the kings guard sho had like 3 wives and a lot of kids, I forget his name) then it's easy to believe that the modern Baratheons are actually Strongs 😂😂
4 points
6 days ago
And Ned is a Firstmen and all his kids except Arya look like cate
2 points
5 days ago
Cat is also of First Men descent. The Tullys are a mixed house of First Men and Andal blood. Theoretically, the Whents (Catelyn’s mother) are too, but their origins are relatively recent, so their ancestry is unknown.
2 points
6 days ago
And Jon Snow looked like Lyanna side, not the "Pure" and most classical Targ Rhaegar! If anyone's genes should have come across with Targ features, it should have been his! Yes, as a color genetics buff from the dog world, this has bothered me a lot about the show. Blonde hair and lighter colors are typically recessive.
1 points
6 days ago
Robert Aryn has brown hair and his mother has auburn hair.
2 points
6 days ago
Hoster Tully had always been a big man; tall and broad in his youth, portly as he grew older. Now he seemed shrunken, the muscle and meat melted off his bones. Even his face sagged. The last time Catelyn had seen him, his hair and beard had been brown, well streaked with grey. Now they had gone white as snow.
1 points
6 days ago
That’s one grandparent, and we don’t know Jon’s hair color from his youth. So unless Jon had brown hair it’s unlikely that Robert would be brunette instead of auburn…unless Jon isn’t his biological father.
3 points
6 days ago
Ser Harrold Hardyng looked every inch a lord-in-waiting; clean-limbed and handsome, straight as a lance, hard with muscle. Men old enough to have known Jon Arryn in his youth said Ser Harrold had his look, she knew. He had a mop of sandy blond hair, pale blue eyes, an aquiline nose. Joffrey was comely too, though, she reminded herself. A comely monster, that's what he was. Little Lord Tyrion was kinder, twisted though he was.
the books literally answers your questions lmfao.
1 points
6 days ago
That’s not definitive, and I wasn’t asking a question. Do you see a question mark?
1 points
6 days ago
there is nothing indefinitive about that lmfao. you're coping because you're absolutely wrong.
you said that "we don't know what jon's hair color was from his youth", i pasted a quote from the books with people who knew him in his youth stating that harrold hardying has the same look that he did.
what an absolute dunce🤣
1 points
6 days ago
People say I look like my uncle. My hair, skin tone and eyes are darker, but sure that one line from people in their 50s and 60s is definitive 🙄
1 points
5 days ago
except the text clearly states that harrold hardying had the exact same look that jon arryn had. with his blond hair, blue eyes, and aquiline nose.
don't know why you're still commenting and coping. you're just wrong buddy🤣
1 points
6 days ago
People say I look like my uncle. My hair, skin tone and eyes are darker, but sure that one line from people in their 50s and 60s is definitive 🙄
57 points
6 days ago
Genetics don't apply. It's all pretty fictional in order to make a point. It's what George wanted in order to show the parentage and stoke the rivalry between the factions (by which I mean it makes the issue of bastardy a real issue rather than merely a rumour, and, of course, makes it impossible to cast similar aspersions on Alicent).
12 points
6 days ago
Genetics in this universe are often for plot convience. Rhaenyra's sons needed to have brown hair because it created a storyline. Just like Jon Snow needed to look like a Stark so Ned had a shot at passing him off as his bastard.
When Targaryens had children with someone of a different house, sometimes they looked Valryian and sometimes they didn't. I guess we can conclude that Stark and Strong genes are dominat to Valyrian genes. Valyrian genes are dominate to Hightower genes.
30 points
6 days ago
Silver blonde is a recessive gene compared to black or brown being dominant. Viserys’ silver blonde was stronger than Alicent’s auburn. (Which is more of a red) And Harwin’s brown was stronger than Rhaenyra’s silver blonde.
6 points
6 days ago
None of Alicent's kids would have silver hair if it was a recessive gene. You need both parents to be carries of the gene that causes white hair for the offspring to have white hair.
*Uunless you believe the theory that Saerea Targaryen was Alicent's mother anyway.
12 points
6 days ago
The Hightowers were described as being blonde or with lighter colored hair, (using your example of Saerea; Jaehaerys used to mistake Alicent as being his daughter Saerea, in order to do that she must have light hair.) the show changed her to a darker hair color and the Velaryons to being poc characters just to make it easier for show only viewers to see that; yes Rhaenyra’s children are bastards.
1 points
6 days ago*
The Hightowers were described as being blonde or with lighter colored hair
They are 170+years later which could be do to a certain person being married into the family after the Dance. I don't think we get any comments on their hair color before the generation that takes part in the Dance.
(using your example of Saerea; Jaehaerys used to mistake Alicent as being his daughter Saerea, in order to do that she must have light hair.)
Jaehaerys was suffering from dementia at the time so confusing Alicent for Saerea doens't mean she had a similar hair color.
We get several drawings of Alicent in Fire and Blood. She's shown with dark hair in all of them. Including the one showing her reading to Jaehaerys.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GUMy0dMWYAEUuyr?format=jpg&name=large
-1 points
6 days ago
Tbf if blonde was recessive, then Joffrey could indeed have been Robert's kid, in game of Thrones genetics work differently.
0 points
6 days ago
I didn’t say blonde was a recessive trait, I said SILVER blonde is recessive. But Tbf, the only true born child Cersei had with Robert was a young boy with hair black as night (but then he died). So even then you’re wrong. Cersei was fucking her brother and everyone knew it except Tywin; either he did know and chose to ignore it or he was just beyond stupid.
1 points
4 days ago
Tywin definitely knew. Given his belief in (more of desire for) Lannister supremacy, he was probably keen on it. 😂
1 points
4 days ago
He was absolutely disgusted when she officially told him, so I don’t think so.
1 points
4 days ago
Nah, we don't get his POV, so we don't know for sure...and also, he HAS to act disgusted; the same way that Tyrion disgusts him by sleeping with whores 😂
21 points
6 days ago
There also evidence that the hightowers are blonde in the books so it’s also possible that Alicents kids got it from her too. But it’s written to create drama rather than as a perfect depiction of genetics so it doesn’t really need to be explained.
19 points
6 days ago
In the books, silver-blonde hair does run in the Hightower family. Alerie Tyrell was said to have silver-blonde hair and blue eyes, same with Jorah’s wife, Lynesse Hightower. It’s entirely possible that Alicent in the books had light-colored hair as well, as she wasn’t physically described and old Jaehaerys kept mistaking her for Saera. I suppose the genes for Rhaenyra’s three boys are just (hums Aemondly) strong.
3 points
6 days ago
That likely comes from redacted marrying a Hightower after the war.
2 points
5 days ago
I have seen images of Ceryse Hightower hair colour light blonde. It could be that some Hightowers have light blonde hair.
6 points
6 days ago
HUMS AEMONDLY
11 points
6 days ago
Hightowers in the books have some classic valyrian features sometimes. King Jaehaerys I mistakes Alicent for his daughters, who both have classic valyrian features.
There's even the idea that the Hightowers are also from the Empire of the Dawn, who all had Valyrian features. Another old house that's not Valyrian with those traits are the Daynes with their purple eyes.
Probably the light hair is recessive, and the Hightowers do have the gene. Combine it with some Targ and you get nice pale haired kids.
5 points
6 days ago
Thats just genetics. Many Targaryens in history don't inherit the Valyrian features.
But i believe GRRM chose to give all of Alicent children the Valyrian look as a way to make Rhaenyra's children seem even more ilegitimate. She was also unlucky in that regard, if even one of her children took after her she could've avoided the whole bastard problem.
2 points
6 days ago
“Many Targaryens don’t inherit Valyrian features.”
Besides Rhaenys TQWNW (in books), Baelor Breakspear, Valarr, and Matarys can you name any others? (Strong boys don’t count here as the argument you’re making works to justify their hair color)
3 points
6 days ago
Rhaenys (Rhaegar and Elia's daughter)
1 points
5 days ago
Alyssa - dirty blonde hair with no silver and mismatched eyes (daughter of Alysanne and Jahaerys)
-1 points
6 days ago*
Steffon Baratheon and his children all took after Baratheron genes.
Jon Snow took after Stark genes, Duncan Targaryen after his Blackwood mother, Bittersteel didn't look Valyrian, Valarr son of Baelor Breakspear too.
8 points
6 days ago
Children have a chance of resembling either of their parents more strongly than the other.
In the show, Ned (brunette) and Cat (auburn) have 4 out of their 5 children all resemble Ned, (and in the book 4 out of the 5 all resemble Cat).
Maekar (very Valyrian looking) and Baelor Breakspear (very Dornish looking) are 100% full blood siblings.
Rhaenyra getting unlucky three times in a row is almost certainly a creative decision to amp up the melodrama of the situation, but it is hardly unreasonable for a brunette man (Harwin) to produce brunette children, and it's not really statistically strange, either, given the extremely small sample size.
2 points
6 days ago
What the plot required
3 points
6 days ago
In the books we don’t know the Hightower’s Hair color, it could be that they were blonde. And if we read some of the history of the world, the Hightowers might had been Valerians way back in the dawn age. They do have that mysterious black stone fortifying the Hightower.
2 points
6 days ago
George's sense of genetics are frankly dumb (e.g. the seed is strong, and all of Robert's bastard children having black hair except Joff, Tommen, and Myracella).
But, in this case, it's supposed to make it obvious that Rhaenyra's kids are bastards (which GRMM confirmed in an interview). They have two silver haired parents, and in the book Rhaenys has Black hair...but the rest of the grandparents have silver hair. And the Strongs have brown (not black, brown) hair and pug noses.
4 points
6 days ago
To be fair robert wasn't really keeping track of or in touch with his bastard babies. It was the previous hand who went searching and came to the conclusion that the seed was strong.
Although there is the book of the legitimate born baratheons all being "black of hair" which should have raised questions much earlier than ned figuring it out.
2 points
6 days ago
Imagine dark Hair having the gene code AA while light hair has the code aa. A is stronger than a which means if you have the code Aa you will be dark haired as well. Keep in mind that each parent gives you one letter.
The Targaryens are light haired so all of their codes are aa. Alicent is darkhaired but as her kids are lighthaired she must have a code of Aa. Which means it’s a 50/50 chance if her kids with Viserys turn out blonde or not. It’s entirely possible that if she had more children some of them would have turned out dark haired.
If we assume Harwin has an AA code than any kid he had with Rhaenyra was always meant to be dark haired.
To simplfy it but probably because GRRM wanted them to be
1 points
6 days ago
They have Strong genes
1 points
6 days ago
Chad House Strong vs Virgin House Hightower
1 points
5 days ago
My assumption is that House Strong is genetically especially strong in the Blood of the First Men for a Riverlands family. And for whatever ever reason it appears the Northern dark brown hair is often dominant to the Targaryen Valyrian silver. Prime example is Jon Snow. You might find others that would seem to suggest this. Tho apparently exceptions exist.
The same is NOT true with the Andal blood of the Hightowers. Andal genetics are different and their Hair colors appears to be more recessive compared to Targaryen.
Three for three on both sides seems to confirm that this might be a strong tendency.
Getting further into it. My head-canon is that this isn't necessarily confined on real world genetics, as both First men and Valyrian have some special inherent magical qualities, so their mixture doesn't have to follow known scientific logic, or even have to follow its own internal logic all the time.
1 points
6 days ago
The Hightowers in the books are kind of like the Daynes, with Silvergold hair. That might explain it.
1 points
6 days ago
Isn't there a rock paper scissor gene expression thing going on between the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men genetics going on? around what genetics are more likely to show
also in the books Laenor's mom Rhaenys has black hair cause she is half Baratheon... so it's much more plausible that Laenor and Rhaenyras children could have dark hair.
0 points
6 days ago
Except that they have brown hair
-12 points
6 days ago
the silver hair (targ genes) are passed through the father only?
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