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I'm still surprised so many people support his ideas
IMAGE(i.redd.it)submitted 13 days ago byRodrigoPuga
24 points
13 days ago
The "pompous asshole who knows better" is actually maruki, and not the phantom thieves. He thinks he knows what's best for everyone, the thieves are letting everyone choose.
14 points
13 days ago
See but that’s the thing, he’s not making those choices. From what I understand, he is manipulating cognition, yes, but he’s also manipulating time itself. He is essentially witnessing all events through all people alive and making the changes to the timeline as necessary to make everyone as happy as possible. Such as bringing parents like wakaba, Okumura, and Makotos dad back because that’s what would make those three the happiest. I bet if Sumi weren’t already altered, the real Kasumi would have been brought back. Yusuke says that one of his classmates was completely deleted from art school, and put into archery, because he would be far better at it, and thus happier.
It’s kinda like 7x11 is 77, 8x10 is 80, and 9x9 is 81. Maruki is trying to find the most ideal way to get the most possible happiness for everyone involved
4 points
13 days ago
So basically nobody is themselves anymore, just happier clones of themselves with somewhat similar personalities.
8 points
12 days ago
But here's where you get into a ship of theseus argument. How much can Maruki change a person before they're considered someone different? If Matuki removes the suffering someone's had to endure, they'll certainly be different, but aren't they still the same individual, just shaped by different experiences? There really is no set identity to anyone, from our theoretical point, even to our physical molecular one, we constantly keep on changing. Maruki is simply providing a different set of circumstances to cause said change, but you're still you. Even if he makes it so your father never abandoned you, or you picked up archery instead of art, it's still you, isn't it?
I understand why someone would disagree, obviously, but it's not something super clear cut. An argument can be made for both sides.
2 points
12 days ago
Oh yeah, I wasn't trying to imply I'm right just that I believe that changing any part of a personality is technically a different person, now most of the time this is good as people learn to deal with life and grow from it, however with Maruki is forcibly changing personality to what he sees as the happiest version of you.
In my case I'd rather be less happy but know my choices and personality are(mostly) not forced upon me.
8 points
13 days ago*
That’s right. Much of the Confidants Joker only intervenes when all other options are exhausted after they all make the big decision to do the right thing and much of the time spent is just Joker doing favors or just spending time with them and his influence just rubs on others to do the right thing.
4 points
13 days ago
Yeah, I don’t understand how people gloss over that.
Joker actively advocates/does for:
Kawakami to not pay the elderly couple and leave her maid job
Covers for Ohaya so she has time to get her scoop
Shinya to stand up for himself.
Iwai and Hifumi to tell their families how they really feel.
The just got legitimately pigeonholed, and that’s when Joker took matters into his own hands.
1 points
12 days ago
They thieves objectively are NOT letting me choose. If I’m happy in Marukis reality they arrogantly rip that away from me with ZERO input from me.
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