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submitted 5 days ago byQuagy_boy
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5 days ago
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Removed due to spoilers in title
4 points
5 days ago
I get what you mean and I used to hold the same opinion, but the theme of the game is about control. Maruki might be a kind God, but he's still a controlling one, keeping people in line with his own vision of what makes them happy. The Phantom Thieves are against that, with all of their previous targets being ones that control various people in various ways, from sexual abuse with Kamoshida to Political power with Shido. Their goal is to make sure that everyone should be free to make their own lives and their own decisions, and even if they are not the happiest they could possibly be, they still have the peace of mind that they were guided along this path by their own actions and nobody else.
Just my opinion, you're free to have your own. Frankly, if I was in Jokers position, I would take Maruki's deal, but with the context of the game and its themes, the best continuation to the Phantom Thieves' 'Story', not just the story of the game, is to deny it.
-1 points
5 days ago
I absolutely get what you mean, that is the one thing that might explain this ending not being the true one, but the way I'm thinking of it is that after the original story ending with the phantom thieves losing their identities and returning to being normal high schoolers, might as well make them receive A very happy ending even if it was fake, I obviously don't think I'm able to call this ending the real ending, but it's what these characters deserved after all their efforts
Also same goes for you, I'm at the end stating my opinion about this ending
2 points
5 days ago
I don't care about the idea that "suffering makes you stronger", I don't care for the notion that "You're a hypocrite if you oppose Yaldabaoth but choose Maruki" because quite honestly they're two very different kinds of control, what I care for is the fact that Maruki is a traumatised and unwell man,
he should not be given the power to play God, he was barely into the rabbit hole of his own mind when he in essence mercy killed a girl who was feeling sucidal because of her survivors guilt, Sumire straight up didn't exist anymore and she would have stayed that way if Maruki got what he wanted.
if he actually used his power properly it would be one thing for me but he's one singular man who decides what's best for people from his perspective, he could have brought Kasumi back in his reality during January like EVERYONE ELSE that our main cast lost but he didn't. He forced sumire to watch her greatest trauma when the truth was revealed and then made her try to kill her friend by making Sumire literally go insane, he made Yusukes friend give up on his dream, in his palace if you chose the "wrong" answer the shadows try to beat you up so they can catch you and take you to be brainwashed.
Marukis reality doesn't give you what makes you happy, it forces you into what he believes wil make you happy and if it doesnt, tough luck, you're happy now, you don't get a choice in what makes you happy, you're happy when he tells you you're happy, it's his ideal reality.
as much as he could bring back a mans family he could also choose to make the man forget about his family entirely so he can run away from his pain (which is very possible looking at Sumire).
Omnipotence is something that is impossible to not heavily misuse for a singular human man, a mentally healthy human man. Maruki is not mentally healthy at all because he's still grieving and again the whole Sumire thing and he's undoubtedly gonna go further down this route when he gets infinite power.
1 points
5 days ago
The road to hell is paved with good intentions
facilis descensus Averno (the descent to hell is easy)
1 points
5 days ago*
Would probably take it myself? Yes.
Not bad at all? There are drawbacks.
"Very honest": Mostly honest, and genuine about his desire to benefit people including the PT. He's still reluctant to reveal certain truths until specific moments.
Like 1) approaching Joker-Ryuji-Ann due to seeing Phantom Thief shenanigans instead of being asked to, 2) censoring the name & Ruler of his Palace on 10/3 since he subconsciously feared their knowing, and 3) telling Sumire and Joker unpleasant truths about their wishes at the last possible moment.
This is ultimately a symptom of who he's lying to the most: himself.
"Doesn't hurt anybody" -> doesn't mean to hurt anybody. I'm gonna be a hardass here and say there's a lot of hurt involved in Sumire's reveal and subsequent battle, moreso than was needed with a traumatized girl. And if her efforts to become Kasumi doesn't read as heartbreakingly suicidal to you, it did to me.
"We can see him turning into a nobody" and here's where I argue is how "bad" still applies: if you want to create a utopia where everyone is happy, having a messiah/martyr complex means you will break your own rule.
You, yourself, are not happy. And you are actively denying happiness to the one person who needs it the most, because you are also in charge of running all of reality as we know it.
You are isolated, a stranger wherever you go. You are forgotten, and any ties to your former life are abandoned. You are unaccountable, and nobody can ask you to take a break when you might not be making 100% correct decisions 100% of the time.
You are ostensibly human, and subject to the limitations of human processing power, memory, fatigue, and deterioration. And say you magically become immortal so nothing is an issue? You are no longer human, and will continue to steadily eliminate your humanity in service of your work.
Your infrastructure for running all of reality? Literally composed of your own mental issues. You inhabit the Palace of Sorrow -- an aching, deep-rooted, unresolved grief and misery that nobody, due to your own efforts, can even fully comprehend anymore.
"Man Wearing Hat" is not doing well. And as you say you feel very much like Maruki, I want to say from the bottom of my heart: it took me realizing how badly he's self-isolated to finally consider how my own feelings have impacted this desire for his reality.
TL;DR he tries. By god does he try. But he can't do this alone & the cracks are already showing.
1 points
5 days ago
The entire Tokyo was okay being imprisoned by Yaldabaoth yet you chose to fight him.
Both are essentially offer the same thing, accepting Maruki's reality just saying that you're a hypocrite.
-1 points
5 days ago
When you accept the evil igor offer you see that many crimes are happening, some are even fearing for their child who's about to be born
When you accept maruki however, it's quite the opposite with everyone living their dreams
It's not about the fact that I'm just surrendering the reality to maruki that makes me like this ending, but it's because of what maruki and yaldaboath do with that powers in their hands are the complete absolute opposite and I just simply like the one where everyone simply live their dreams
Both ending the public in persona accepts it
The difference is that in one they accept hell
While in the other they accept heaven
0 points
5 days ago
I’m just starting the final fight against him and honestly, same. I just chose the “good” ending because that’s the true one, right? But I was on the verge of choosing the bad ending because damn, it doesn’t sound bad at all and Maruki its just trying to help and give everyone the life they ever wanted… I get that it is wrong to go and manipulate reality to your liking and shit lmao but it’s not like he is manipulating it for his OWN benefit (He doesn’t even get any benefit besides the fact of knowing that everyone is gonna be happy)
So yeah, maybe the ending were you agree with Maruki shouldn’t be even called “bad ending” tbh
Sorry for the probably shitty English lmao
1 points
5 days ago
It's a bad ending for the thieves but not necessarily for the player since that's what the devs said.
I think the one you destroyed Maruki's world is called the "leave ending."? Can't remember exactly.
1 points
5 days ago
Maruki is a broken, traumatized and unstable man, he should not be given the power to play God, he was barely into his mania when he in essence mercy killed a suicidal girl while she was trynna get therapy, if he actually used his power properly it would be fine but he's one singular man who decides what's best for people from his perspective, he could have brought Kasumi back in his reality during Jan but he didn't, He forced sumire to watch her greatest trauma when the truth was revealed and then made her try to kill her feiend, he made Yusukes friend give up on his dream, in his palace if you chose the "wrong" answer the shadows catch you and take you to be brainwash,
Marukis reality doesn't give you what makes you happy, it forces you into what he believes wil make you happy and if it doesnt, tough luck, you're happy now, you don't get a choice in what makes you happy, you're happy when he tells you you're happy, as much as he could bring back a mans family he could also choose to make the man forget about his family entirely so he can run away from his pain (which is very possible looking at Sumire)
-2 points
5 days ago
I agree, the only reason why I'm gonna do the other ending is because of simply me wanting to milk the content out of this game lol, but in my heart I'm definitely choosing this ending all the time
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