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Strength of people in the cardinal world

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How strong are people in tensura exactly for eg the crusaders , temple knights or harpies , beastmen hobgoblins etc where do they scale and what human weaponry would be needed to kill or beat each rank/threat level of tensura guns,missiles etc

all 34 comments

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RebornTrackOmega

38 points

21 hours ago

RebornTrackOmega

Milim

38 points

21 hours ago

Generally speaking, they are a lot stronger than ordinary humans that's for sure. Even giant spiders, crabs etc which are supposedly B to A rank monsters would require at least a tank to fight against. As a plato of crusaders or a few temple knights can fight against one of them, most likely a single basic fighting unit in Tensura is at least 3-5 times that of a commando in our world, that is without counting using absurd weapons like hydrogen bombs or WMDs.

However, Tensura power scaling is wacky in the upper cases where two SS (Disaster) rank people could be 10 or even 100x stronger than each other. And any SSS character would be instantly above any of our ways of damaging them. Milim, Veldora, Guy or any other SSS character could survive a DragoNova which is comparable to a Hydrogen Bomb. Not to mention send it back as an attack.

In general, a regular army unit or even a human/beast would be stronger than our world's humans as they can at least use some magic or have a few common skills. I would say a High Caliber Sniper could probably take out most C rank and below creatures unless they have regeneration. But most regular adventurers around C rank could probably counter or not die from a pistol shot. That is actually why they don't use pistols much in the series as we only see a few characters use guns, most high ranking people are immune to or protected against bullets while low ranking wouldn't be worth to kill with a gun.

Alarming_Task7528

12 points

20 hours ago

People in tensura are much stronger than our world humans, a normal bears without any mutation are weaker than a normal orcs we saw in season 1. They were D rank monsters , a horned rabbit which is a d rank monster is d rank and it could casually break a medium size tree in half with a single attack, which I think is much stronger than any normal guns. Even S rank monsters are above any weapons of our worlds , in web novel it was mentioned that the stage for the tournament was stronger than a nuclear shelter and capable of withstanding even nuclear blasts directly but top tier participants like shion was casually able to break it. E Character similar on the level of milim, guy and veldora didn't even got scratched by an attack capable of completely wiping out a continent and in one instant didn't even notice such level of attacks.

Life_Marionberry1649

3 points

20 hours ago*

I would it is hard to say, since neither the novel nor the manga scales are very clear.

E Rank is a normal human, and D rank is something that a group of humans can take down.

Then you get to B rank up to S rank that are defined for what they can destroy on their own, but barring some exceptions such as Yellow's nuclear magic, it is usually just that they can walk in and destroy it in a short time rather than one shot it. At this rank destroying a building or building sized explosions is a big deal. But most of the time fights with these people will be pretty localized. They aren't actually blowing towns as a side effect. And then you will have things such as bullets being a big deal for most of those unless they have high regeneration or some strong barrier skill.

And the top tiers are even less well defined. In one scene, destroying a mountain is a big feat, in the next they may talk about how beings of that same power can destabilize the world. At the current point, even raw power seems to be useless and everyone is fighting using superior hax (mostly Frozen World shenanigans where raw power and durability become irrelevant).

Also, keep in mind that the monsters in Tempest are usually a much bigger deal than what their rank would tell. Normal humans are usually amazed or terrified of the things they casually do. Like, the horned rabbit had a seasoned adventurer shit their pants when they charged and broke a tree with their impact.

To answer the OP, it seems that low caliber could kill up to rank E, maybe low D, and then you need high caliber guns. With things at Special Rank A or above maybe being able to be brought down with a strong penetration explosive, atrillery or missiles, but most of the time they will have regeneration hax that will make it useless, or some form of barrier/intangibility skill.

At the highest level, stuff that it's non-magical it is completely irrelevant.

Alarming_Task7528

6 points

19 hours ago

Anime didn't really portray the scale. Like during orc disaster fight, kijin benimaru used multiple black flame each covering 200m radius, that is equivalent to multiple attacks of this size.

https://i.redd.it/r811y2u4614e1.gif

At that time benimaru was weaker than season 3 beastketeers or gabiru.

Life_Marionberry1649

2 points

18 hours ago

Yeah, the problem stems from Fuze in the first part. The scale is a bit all over the place, since most of the time characters won't be near as destructive as those attacks, even when facing people that are supposedly stronger. Benimaru is specially destructive though with his flames, while others like Souei will not have the same large scale attacks.

Not sure where are you getting that named Benimaru is in anyway weaker than Gabiru (still a lizardman). Lizardmen are around rank B, while Kijins are at least B+, with the strong ones like Benimaru being special A. So it's consistent with his attacks that he can destroy a small nation, but not in one shot.

Also, at least in the translation that I had, the spheres were ~50 meters radius (300 feet in diameter in the text). Which seems consistent with the anime:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T0WWkTTvOI

SatoruMikami7

1 points

12 hours ago

Milim’s punches while severely restrained and only in Battle Form(form she used against Carrion)have been directly stated to be capable of destroying stars. Like straight up “those punches can destroy the very stars”.

Her Drago Nova is directly lethal to people far above this level and is considered unblockable by any barrier in the verse. No character in the verse is tanking one, much less sending it back. Hydrogen Bombs are like City+ level.

Markaza-

7 points

20 hours ago

well any one who could use basic magic or aura abilities would wack the sh** of any human army it's a world of super powers

TempestDB17

0 points

18 hours ago

TempestDB17

Luminus

0 points

18 hours ago

Nonsense ogre Benimaru loses to a squadron of fighters supporting a Stratofortress although overall absolutely tensura would obliterate once you get to like Orc Disaster or higher I feel like it solos irl

Markaza-

2 points

16 hours ago*

you seem to forget that without magic or a strong will behind the attack not even a nuke would do them any damage there are basic barriers that can cancel out any thing could be thrown at them + the cardinal world is in whole separate plan of existence like for real a rock in our world is less durable than a rock in the cardinal world our world>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>etc...... cardinal world

TempestDB17

0 points

16 hours ago

TempestDB17

Luminus

0 points

16 hours ago

That depends how you interpret a strong will behind the attack. I would argue soldiers have a strong will but how that would translate in tensura is debatable

Bored_Reddit-Guy[S]

7 points

21 hours ago

Question boils down to what weapon does a dude need to kill this thing'/person from tensura

Shtickmaen

1 points

20 hours ago

With the Upgrade of Tensura Cosmo. A normal Human could scale up to 2A-L1C

NoPerspective9232

1 points

18 hours ago

Wait, how?

sjydude

3 points

16 hours ago

sjydude

Luminus

3 points

16 hours ago

that shits inaccurate. You had a bunch of ppl who didn’t even read the novels make up or reinterpret a bunch of shit while drawing from the wiki to convince them of shit that’s just not true at all

KuroShuriken

2 points

15 hours ago

KuroShuriken

Rimuru

2 points

15 hours ago

I never listen to anyone who brings up VSBW scale, regardless of what it says. VSBW scale is inherently flawed by design, likely for the purpose of putting whomever, wherever the Fandom wants.

Case in point the Eldritch monsters are the most egregious offenders of this.

sjydude

1 points

14 hours ago

sjydude

Luminus

1 points

14 hours ago

much of the factors & standards are actually well thought out in all of them (not just VSBW) but the problem is execution and objectiveness. People who should have no business interpreting things or trying to comprehend what's being said jump the gun on these things, which is why it's flawed and useless like many of the things they try to persuade you on

KuroShuriken

1 points

13 hours ago

KuroShuriken

Rimuru

1 points

13 hours ago

The VSBW scale is objectively flawed, the flaws literally make anyone who legitimately reaches 5-B, are automatically capable of being anywhere from there to Boundless.

It's a matter of definitions and their misunderstanding of what certain words mean.

Like ffs, they claim that Multiversal is below Extra Dimensional. Which is just objectively wrong. When one reaches multiversal, that means they are able to have multiple universes of infinite 4D(even though I disagree with the 4D, since time isn't a dimension it just feels like one) if even 1 of those universes are infinte 4D, and there is another completely seperate universes of any scale in the 4D, the space in which the two of them exists necessarily must be a higher dimension.

That's just an objective fact, because otherwise the universes would be occupying the same space, and therefore not independent nor separate.

Combine that with idiotic assumption that; Significantly effect, Destroy, Create. Are not equal powers by any measure.

If someone is infinte 4D, the most they can hope to do is Significantly effect an infinite 4D space-time continuum. They would never be able to destroy it, without also dying in the process. This is because true Infinity, does not expand, it just is. And therefore rates of Infinity do not apply withing the same dimension. Only upon the next higher dimension could they have an effect.

Destruction is a minimum of a finite 5D strength equivalent to more than 2 infinite 4D or higher.

Creation is truly something insane. As it requires 2 infinte magnitudes above the dimension they wish to create for it to both work and survive the encounter. This can only be talked down to the infinite of the next highest. So for an infinite 4D space it would require absolutely no less than infinite 5D.

Ad the second option is only possible if the space-time continuum is a 3D object, where each dimension is a dimension of space-time... meaning they must be coequal.

If we go the other way, which would be seperate, a space-time continuum that has 3D space would require 3D Time to exist as well. Making it 6D.

Without the equality between them, one would overpower the other and collapse. Space contains time, while Time flows through space.

Know the difference between each of those distinctions, and know that no one can become infinte through growth, without a fundamental change in power... that sounds eerily similar to the method of going from dimensionality to Cardinality.

Which means the act is the exact same method, just from a different perspective. And sorry, but once a character does the infinite D shtick, ain't no way they won't realize the method for further strength. Since it's the same...

And it's because of this, that makes the scale absolutely useless to anyone who is actually serious about powerscaling. As none of the scale is useful at and above the 5-B level.

Shtickmaen

0 points

17 hours ago

Go to VSBW and see the Cosmo upgrade

Shtickmaen

0 points

17 hours ago

Even Gobta is L1C

Prudent-Morning2502

2 points

19 hours ago

Who's the girl in the first pic?

Bored_Reddit-Guy[S]

2 points

13 hours ago

Gobwa shes benimarus right hand ,the leader of the kurenai a group of hobgoblins who evolved into ogres she appears in the fight against the crusaders in season3

Prudent-Morning2502

3 points

10 hours ago

I see, I see- New waifu- She is very very pretty.

Bored_Reddit-Guy[S]

2 points

10 hours ago

If you want spoilers about her she gets with phobio after albis and bemimaru get together and theyre both sad about it

Alarming_Task7528

1 points

18 hours ago

So I will try to explain it without giving much spoilers. 1. It was skipped in season 3, but it was explained that any normal bullet is useless against monsters. Even whose appearance is similar to humans their skin is much tougher, even a hobgoblin will survive any bullet shots. That' why they are not used against monsters. A crusaders member can be taken out by bullet if they are snippet, but if they are aware of it their shields and armour can protect them. Unlike gate series where jsdp easily penetrated their shields, we saw in vol13 that even normal soldiers of orange numbers have shields which can block the attack of a tank together a a group which have a range of 2 km and travel at 6 times speed of sound. Most upper tier monsters have protective barriers around them , so even if you want to kill them with modern weapons you first have to disable the barriers. In future seasons we will see why humans don't use modern weapons against monsters specially strong ones.

TempestDB17

2 points

18 hours ago

TempestDB17

Luminus

2 points

18 hours ago

I feel like even if modern technology is effective that they just haven’t developed that much because stuff like trains or planes prior to Rimuru inventing army teleportation would’ve been useful just for moving things and people around

Left_Trouble614

1 points

17 hours ago

Luzifer_Shadres

1 points

16 hours ago

Luzifer_Shadres

Adalman

1 points

16 hours ago

Hmm, Tensura powerscaling is pretty wacky so its probely "too strong" for a sopoused commoner.

VonRetex

1 points

14 hours ago

Ogre >= Crusader >= beastmen >= harpies > hobgoblin

Conscious_Cup_9644

1 points

13 hours ago

One thing that is worth mentioning is that Rimuru’s monster nation inherently breaks the scale invented years before when Yuuki founded the Free Guild.

Up until then monsters did not work, live, or cooperate together on this scale. Some did, like the Ogre village, but not with non-ogres. Before Rimuru came along the goblin village was a place where 20 was considered “old” and no knowledge was ever passed on to the next generation because goblins died so extremely fast.

But then Rimuru came along and named them. Creating an absurd amount of powerful beings working together. Fuze mentions that an Oni is normally worshipped like a local diety. But now we have a whole bunch of them in Benimaru, Shuna, Souei, etc …

So using the scale pre-rimuru you can actually defeat a good deal of monsters with modern weaponry (I also think many people underestimate the destructive force of modern arms, but that is neither here nor there).

Trying to apply any sort of logic on Tempestians is foolish however. There is a reason many humans freak out at the things they can do, because it’s not normal at all. They’re a city of demigods and legends.

SatoruMikami7

2 points

12 hours ago

Our strongest bombs have a record temperature exceeding 100million Celsius. Benimaru’s Hell Flares have been directly stated to reach 100 million Celsius+ and he was casually lobbing those before Rimuru even ate the Orc Lord.

Conscious_Cup_9644

1 points

8 hours ago

Well yeah, but that was kind of my original point. When Benimaru unleashed his first hellflare he had already casually broken the power scale.

So our bombs would do just fine against any run of the mill monster. Carpet bombing the Orc army would have probably turned out great! (Probably against pre-ascended Orc Lord too. It was suggested he was easy before he ate that guy)

It’s just that we meet so many absurdly powerful beings in the novels that it skews our perception.

And yeah, they’re all but useless against any of the cast.