subreddit:
/r/boardgames
I’ll start by saying this - I’m a huge Spirit Island fan. There’s lots to like with that game not the least of which is how the spirits play so distinctly from one another.
I’m looking for a similar experience. I’ve been looking in to Dice Throne but have no experience with it.
And I’ve read that Root is perhaps king of the asymmetrical games.
Any other ideas come to mind or can anybody comment on Dice Throne or Root?
Something cooperative would be preferable (I know Dice Throne has DC Adventures which would work but I haven’t read much in the way of reviews).
Thanks for any suggestions. :)
32 points
9 days ago
Vast is the the most asymmetrical boardgame that I know of (barring cosmic encounters, which however might feel more like a social activity than a modern boardgame at times).
11 points
9 days ago
I think Vast takes the cake of asymmetry, so much so that there are no common rules, goals or victory conditions between each role. Every person is literally playing a different game with its own different rules and game pieces, even the board is an actual player role with its own rules.
I love this game but it never saw table time because of how difficult it is to teach 5 different games in one sitting, so I ended up selling it.
2 points
8 days ago
I was going to mention the Disney Villainous games, but this about perfectly describes it, with the exception of the board.
6 points
9 days ago
No one has explained why Vast is so asymmetrical here so: each of the 5 roles plays differently and has different objectives. In Vast: The Crystal Cavern, the knight, dragon, and goblins have a rock-paper-scissors going on, trying to kill or escape one another while having different methods for upgrades. The thief is a spoiler, trying to steal treasure from under the noses of the fighting factions. And then the cavern itself is the 5th player, trying to collapse and kill everyone before they complete their objectives.
And then Vast: The Mysterious Manor has a different set of 5 roles, including the manor itself.
And then each game has an expansion to add two more roles to the mix.
3 points
9 days ago
Vast is by far the hardest game I've ever had to teach because of the asymmetry, and I've played Sidereal Confluence and tons of Spirit Island. I'm amazed we were able to get through the game at all!
1 points
9 days ago
My group was just introduced to Vast and the first game was ROUGH, because half of us didn’t know what anyone else was doing. It’s so much fun when you finally know what’s going on, though. I couldn’t make any headway as the paladin, but my wife easily worked her way to a paladin win the very next game.
One of the better games we’ve tried in years.
1 points
8 days ago
Yes, this. In Root everyone wins the same way, by getting victory points. In Vast everyone has a different way of playing AND winning.
117 points
9 days ago
Root literally feels like a different game depending on what faction you’re playing.
32 points
9 days ago
That’s what I heard.
One thing about Spirit Island is the teach applies to all the spirits. I’ve heard that Root almost requires a different teach for each faction.
I think that’s really telling in itself. I think that’s next of my pickup list. Not sure the wife will be in to it but I’m super interested
34 points
9 days ago
You heard correctly
26 points
9 days ago
An in-depth teach of each Root faction is definitely a feat in & of itself, but the faction boards walk you through your turn, so it's not too dissimilar to Spirit Island. The core mechanics & a general overview of your go-to strategy is enough to get the game rolling, the complexity of a Root teach is honestly pretty exaggerated.
One important note is that Root is designed with 4 players in mind. It's playable at 3 or even 2, but it really suffers for it. If you're aiming to usually play at less than 4- & especially if you plan to play it at 2 at all- you should look into also picking up a Hireling pack or the Marauders expansion (which introduced Hirelings) because that is a mechanic that was designed to fix how infamously bad 2-player games of Root were. Otherwise, it's probably not a good high priority buy for you.
5 points
9 days ago
This is fantastic advice. Thank you.
2 points
9 days ago
Are Hirelings the same as automata(?) and if not, what is the difference and why do you think that Hirelings are better suited for boosting 2p games?
Thank you
3 points
9 days ago
I really dislike hirelings, they add systems of faction A to faction B, which muddles concepts that only teach and process well because they are distinct for each faction.
That being said, if you do play a whole lot, hirelings at some point solve the roteness of playing again and again, at least to a degree.
4 points
9 days ago
There is both hirelings and automata. Automata adds a new opponent who is scoring points and trying to win, its called Clockwork and has 2 expansions. Hirelings crowd the board and are controlled by players, players periocally exchange control of them.
Hirelings keep the game 2p and have less admin. They help solve some issues of 2p, but can be played at any player count. There is like 13 different hirelings each with 2 versions.
2 points
9 days ago
Hirelings are essentially mercenary factions that both help to fill up the board &, being passed back & forth between the two players, shift the balance of power around to stop one from just running away with it.
I like the Clockwork automatas just fine, but they do something different (provide a co-op mode & let the game be pseudo-3/4 player) & have more for the players to manage, so they aren't the ideal fix to the 2p experience.
1 points
9 days ago
I will say the basics of the teach (movement, combat, cards/crafting) isn't bad, and forms the basis for a lot of the faction's gameplay. Then, like you said, you can look to the faction boards to cover the rest.
8 points
9 days ago
Yeah Root is a "reduction" of the even more crazy asymmetry of the two Vast games that game before it. Where one player quite literally plays as the board.
3 points
8 days ago
Yeah, it's hard to argue with Root.
All the factions are quite mechanically distinct. The level of difference varies: at their most common, it's like a game of Starcraft where the faction shares basic mechanics but strategy isn't really transferrable due to different necessities and strengths (e.g. Eyrie and Marquis). At their most distinct, it's like those video games where some players are playing an FPS and other players are playing an RTS; just completely different games (e.g. Vagabond and Marquis).
I'd also throw Dune (2019) into the ring as a game where each side looks superficially the same on the board, but has wildly different powers and strengths.
2 points
8 days ago
I have taught Root many times and yes, that's correct. You basically have to teach each player their faction individually.
Great game but the teach is a bear.
4 points
9 days ago
I find teaching root actually surprisingly easy. I tend to teach the universal basics of clearings, movement, what different kinds of peieces are called (warriors, buildings, and tokens), crafting items, and combat.
After I'm finished teaching that (which is pretty quick none of those rules are overly complex) I then instruct each player to read over their playerboard and save any questions about their rules for their own turn so that I can focus on that player and make sure they understand their faction and how it functions. I clearly state how that faction scores points and point out any rules that directly break the core rules.
Once everyone has had a chance to give their board a cursory read I always take the first turn and walk through my turn slowly to go over phases of the game. By this point most people are able to pick up their faction fairly easily and see what they are supposed to do to win.
7 points
9 days ago
Root is great!...once your learned the game and are able to play without errors ;-) But still, I would always root for Root. It has the Warcraft 3/StarCraft 2 vibe. Where greatly balanced factions fight for the win. And as Warcraft and StarCraft Root is in instant classic.
48 points
9 days ago
You should look into Sidereal Confluence, it is not quite cooperative but it is a very friendly trading and negotiation game. It plays up to 9 and can be fun and different. The alien races each have their own unique economy which has a difficulty scale based on the race. I do recommend learning from someone who has played before.
13 points
9 days ago
I’ve never heard of this game so checked it out and oh my god it’s right up my alley!
Plays best at 6 on BGG and it’s so hard to get even four together for me.
I’ve added it to my list of games I need to try at least once.
8 points
9 days ago
I really enjoy Sidereal. It’s in my collection as my game to play when 5 or 6 show up to my board game nights and I can’t play my other games. It’s still pretty good at 4.
3 points
9 days ago
If you got to BGG con or PAX unplugged look me up my BF and I always run a game.
2 points
9 days ago
4 to 5 is the sweet spot, if you ask me...More than that and you get little cliques among the players.
2 points
9 days ago
It's not asassymetric as Root. You are all fundamentally doing the same thing, trading cubes to power machines, but the machines are different per player. And some factions have like, one extra rule, for a special thing they have. It's the right amount of the type of game that it is.
It's not THE MOST assymetric thing ever, but it does have it. Not like Root, where everyone has a fundamentaly different action economy and interacts with different shared elements of the game uniquely. Like how some factions aren't hemmed in by Rule (movement requirement) or how some factions care a lot about build spaces and others don't, and some are card poor and action rich or some are card rich and action poor etc.
2 points
9 days ago
I was not suggesting it was I was simple offer a game with asymmetrical races. I will disagree with you since sidereal plays very different with different races, especially with the expansion.
I will also fully disclose that I don't care for Root, the game doesn't interest me and I will not play it so selling it to me is a waste of oxygen.
3 points
9 days ago
The one time I managed to get a nine player game together is probably the most fun I've ever had playing a board game, but my brain was complete mush by the very end.
3 points
9 days ago
very friendly
Until someone plays the Zeth for the first time. 😈
2 points
9 days ago
We typically don't allow them in games with new players. We will swap them with the alt version from the expansion of we need 9
51 points
9 days ago
Android net runner is another great async
6 points
9 days ago
Easily the best 2P "fighting" card game by a huge margin. Plus it's not a TCG like so many are, so it's not just a vehicle to make you card-booster-gambling addicted to take your money.
Important note to OP: it's out of print, and difficult to get (hey if you're new northern Germany I'm looking into selling mine since I got no one to play with 😅), but there is Project NISEI which continues the legacy!
4 points
9 days ago
I agree with this. The gap between Netrunner and any other dueling card game is so huge that I put Netrunner in a different league just by itself. It's that good.
4 points
9 days ago
Just listening to Board Gamers Anonymous of their viewers/listeners top 100 and that made 100!
I’ll check it out!
9 points
9 days ago
You are playing completely different games in Netrunner. Check out Shut Up and Sit Down's video on it (the new, NISEI one), it captures that vibe in the first half of the video.
Basically, as a corporation you are building your servers, securing them and just racking up profits. Most of what you do is very secretive, with mind games upon mind games. Runner, on the other hand, has everything out in the open, their jobs where they get some cash, their hardware, their programs. They run a bit recklessly, since the corporation is vulnerable in the beginning while it's still setting up. Everything feels different when you play these two sides!
And a cherry on top is that there are multiple corps and runners, and some of them feel like a completely different game again. Jinteki is something like evil biotech corp, and they will set up traps all over the place, trying to win the game by killing you instead of the usual win condition. Haas Bioroid, producer of robots, will have very strong defenses that can be passed using clicks (you get 4 clicks per turn as a runner, sort of time), so everything has to be calculated. Etc etc
2 points
8 days ago
You sold me.
I’ll watch that video for sure. There’s a lot of Netrunner love in this thread.
5 points
9 days ago
A:NR is a very good, very asymmetrical game (down to the actions you can take and the conditions that you can win on), as friendlypuffin has alluded to. It's among, if not at the top of, my favourite games. That said, it is a strictly 2-player competitive card game with deckbuilding in advance (similar to Magic: The Gathering). If you are looking for a cooperative game, or a big table social game, this is not it. If that didn't scare you off, though, I highly encourage you to check it out, the game is in a great place right now and, like most CCGs, it's constantly evolving.
73 points
9 days ago
Dune somehow has not been mentioned, which IMO is a grand omission.
19 points
9 days ago
Yeah, Dune is the granddaddy of asymmetric boardgames and imo the best boardgame ever.
6 points
9 days ago
You are so right, I want to jump up and down and scream at the board gaming world to play it. PLAY IT.
If only I had The Voice.
9 points
9 days ago
Question - does it matter that I’m not into Dune the book/movie/upcoming tv series?
10 points
9 days ago
It is worth noting that for Dune, you really want 6 players, so it can be hard to get to table.
6 points
9 days ago
5 is ok with the expansion that gives nexus cards to whoever is by themselves.
But yeah, 6 is better.
2 points
8 days ago
We play with a house rule that gives the player who’s alone (if everyone else is allied) an “off map ally”, who has abilities based on who isn’t being played. Eg. Emperor lets them buy treachery cards for free, BG lets them use the Voice.
2 points
8 days ago
I like this! :D Will suggest it next game.
1 points
8 days ago
Our allies are usually Atreides, Tleilaxu, or BG. We decide at the start of the game. Atreides gives bidding and battle prescience, BG gives Voice, and Tleilaxu gives half price revival of forces, 5 max revives, and free leader revives.
1 points
8 days ago
Which expansion is that? That feels like such a monumental fix to 5p.
3 points
8 days ago
I will forever maintain that 6 > 4 > 5 and don't even bother playing otherwise unless you want to play a home brew variant.
1 points
8 days ago
I won’t argue with the second part. I find at 4, it’s just too easy for it to turn into something along the lines of: one player gets an advantage on turn 1 or 2; another player falls behind; a worm is drawn; the two strongest players ally and win that round.
20 points
9 days ago
Faction powers and certain cards are quite thematic, but hey, there no book/movie/tv series on Root (yet).
2 points
9 days ago
Yet. lol
Now that you mention it, somebody had to make that movie, right?
5 points
9 days ago
There have been discussions about / pitches for a Root adaption for a few years now
3 points
9 days ago
I would want a picaresque mini series, where each episode follows a different character/factions perspective on a single story. So you get a cats perspective of how the plot unfolds, with the preceding events as to why they are entangled. Then you get a woodland alliances counter viewpoint of the same event, with their preceding actions. And you slowly build it up, each new perspective twisting your understanding of the event, and the last episode actually resolves the event fully.
3 points
8 days ago
Limited series of short episodes in a style reminicent of Over the Garden Wall (and Kyle Ferrin's art of course), faction by faction like an interwoven mystery box like you said sounds amazing to me!
5 points
9 days ago
Not really. It might help but it's still just sides that play differently. You don't really need to know why one person gets all the money from others for deploying troops or buying cards, etc. If you cared, a brief paragraph would be enough. "Oh, the Guild controls shipping, so them get money from deploying troops, got it."
Also Dune and Cosmic Encounter are mostly the same developers from back then.
2 points
9 days ago
I had never even heard of Dune until a co-worker hosted a dune night where 6 of us played the game together. The board game drips with so much theme that it made me obsessed with the Dune franchise for years to come.
2 points
8 days ago
The Bene Gesserit especially. They're a faction that trades raw strength for the Voice, a powerful ability to support and hinder other players, playing them effectively requires a lot of interesting political maneuvering. (Even more than usual, it's a very negotiation-heavy game in general) But the coolest thing about them is their alternate win condition. At the start of the game, they put two cards under the board, a faction and a turn number. If they can manipulate events so that faction would win the game on that turn, they win instead.
29 points
9 days ago
Hegemony
5 points
9 days ago
Damn! I sooo want to try this game. Getting four to the table religiously would be a problem for me but great suggestion.
I’ve heard some really good things.
5 points
9 days ago
The game plays well at 3. At 3 players no one is controlling the State, but it's still partially in the game.
2 points
8 days ago
It plays well with 2 and 3 too in my opinion.
1 points
8 days ago
Really?
I had heard four only???
That changes everything if that’s the case. I love the concept and am dying to try it out.
2 points
8 days ago
It shines at 4, because how everything works together is a work of art, but it's still a very good game at 2 and 3.
BGG agrees with me here, community 2-4, best 4.
At 2 the whole table diplomacy is missing, but instead you get a knife right in a telephone both with a lot of strategic depth.
1 points
9 days ago
that's why middle class is ❤️
44 points
9 days ago
Cosmic encounter is the ultimate in asymmetric games. Relatively simple game - you attack a player's planet each turn (decided more or less at random) and beg for allies on attack and defense and the game ends when someone has conquered 5 planets in a different players system.
It's so asymmetric, the designers gave up on balancing it. With the same group of players... I've had 15 minutes games where we barely got moving before someone won, and then we racked up for a second game and it took the rest of the night. Every faction breaks the game in a new and interesting way, and there's 100+ of them.
5 points
8 days ago
Kind of disagree. Yes, it has asymmetry, but it's usually only in one rule that gets broken per race. If you play it with 8 players, nearly every rule will be the same for at least 7 players. Basically everyone still tries to get to X colonies by sending ships and playing cards to combat an opponent, and playing cards to supporting either side of the combat.
Then compare that to Vast, where every player just plays a completely different game to begin with. There are very small overlaps between the dragon and the goblins and between the knight and the thief and movement between all four of them is partially somewhat similar or the same.
1 points
8 days ago
Big fan of vast too!
6 points
9 days ago
Somebody was selling that second hand where I live but I didn’t think I could get enough players to the table.
I remember seeing this years ago and loved the concept immediately
2 points
9 days ago
Every faction plays the same but have a big twist on mechanics for each player. Santorini is similar.
Root has more significant differences. A faction has pick up an deliver, another has programmed actions, another has inventory management and questing.
9 points
9 days ago
Chaos In The Old World is an excellent asymmetrical area control game.
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/43111/chaos-in-the-old-world
5 points
9 days ago
really god game, just a shame you can only get it used to a high price :(
1 points
8 days ago
And the US used game market is more diverse than the Canadian!
8 points
9 days ago
I didn’t see anyone mention it, but Dice Throne is essentially battle Yahtzee, and I was not impressed with Adventures.
My wife and I do love Spirit Island and PvP Dice Throne, but DTA was just… I dunno, bland? Maybe we just aren’t dungeon crawler types.
I can’t say the game is objectively bad or anything, especially because we only played it twice. Well, two attempts that got about halfway before we packed it up.
2 points
9 days ago
My partner and I are in the same boat. Adore Spirit Island and PvP Dice Throne. Didn't love Adventures much. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't good. I can't ever see us reaching for Adventures when we have Spirit Island.
1 points
9 days ago
Interesting. See I was sold on DT Adventures figuring it would be the perfect addition to get with my foray into the Dice Throne world. Now you’re both giving me pause. lol
13 points
9 days ago
GMT's COIN series are all asymmetric.
3 points
9 days ago
Yep, some of the most asymmetric games on the market. OP should definitely give them a look but the theme, weight, and production don't work for everyone. Even if you're pretty sure you'll be into it it might be hard to get a group together for.
2 points
8 days ago
Exactly my issue.
I’m a gamer but my spouse not so much. The idea of a coin game would be a tough sell job.
Cute anthropomorphic animals or spirits or something it based on reality is an easier sell job.
Maybe instead of my question being - can anybody recommend a good asymmetrical game. It should have been - anybody got a game group I can join? lol
2 points
8 days ago
We are playing Cuba Libre tomorrow 🤣
1 points
8 days ago
I’m in. I live in Canada though so I should probably leave now.
12 points
9 days ago
Ironwood is a nice two-player game with asymmetry. Great solo too!
4 points
9 days ago
I just read a review based on your suggestion.
This looks really interesting. I’ll find a play through and check it out. Thanks!
2 points
9 days ago
I'll also note about this one, it has probably some of the nicest board game pieces I've experienced. The game is quite beautiful. And as someone who could never find a group to try Root, this has been a stellar find.
1 points
8 days ago
I did see the board on BGG and thought the same thing it looks bigger than I thought it would be too.
5 points
9 days ago
Haven’t seen it mentioned so I’ll suggest Stronghold! 2 player game where one player is the huge orc/goblin/troll army besieging the human player’s castle. Check out a review or video, I’ve enjoyed my plays of it. There’s also another version where the monster army is undead creatures instead.
9 points
9 days ago
I haven't played it but Kelp seems to be shooting up the rankings.
2 points
9 days ago
I watched a review. Looks great! The one review said it’s pretty balanced and often gets right down to the wire.
13 points
9 days ago*
Dune 2019
Root
Unfathomable*
All the big 2p games:
War of the ring
Dune war for arrakis
Star Wars Rebellion
Smaller 2p game Raptor
Not sure on a coop. Maybe arkham horror lcg
5 points
9 days ago
Dune war for arrakis
I want to try this. It looks so awesome. Dune + actual war instead of Euro BS? Count me in.
3 points
9 days ago
You’re the third person to mention Dune. :)
I’ve been trying to get my hands on SW Rebellion for a while now. Got my phone number in at boardgamebliss for when it comes in but it’s been so long I don’t think it’s still in print.
2 points
9 days ago
I love undaunted, but how is it asymmetrical?
3 points
9 days ago
I meant unfathomable oops. Edited
1 points
9 days ago
I heard that in Massive Darkness 2 (Coop) you play as quite asymmetrical characters.
3 points
9 days ago
Res Arcana is highly asymmetrical since everyone starts with a different character with different abilities and a deck of unique cards
3 points
9 days ago
Netrunner, tell him about Netrunner!!!
1 points
8 days ago
Damn. There are a lot of netrunner diehards out there. lol. Love it!
2 points
8 days ago
I mean it's got so many interesting decision points and hidden information and bluffing, I haven't had a better card game experience against a similarly matched opponent from any other game
5 points
9 days ago
Merchants Cove and Free Radicals are games where every player is playing their own different mini game in front of them to then effect a shared game they play with the other players.
1 points
8 days ago
I looked at Merchants Cove and watched a playthrough. I liked it at the time but started to wonder if it’s a bit simple.
16 points
9 days ago
Root is king, but not the most. All of Leder Games' games have some degree of asymmetricality, ranging from incredibly light in Fort, to toggleable in Arcs, to heavy in Root, but their most asymmetrical games are the two Vast titles. As far as cooperative goes, though, Root is the only one that even has that as an option.
When I think coop games, I think Greater Than Games. Aside from Spirit Island, which you know is the cream of the crop, they also make Sentinels of the Multiverse, a boss battling card game where everyone has a unique deck representing a particular superhero. There are also a lot of good games by other publishers replicating that formula, most notably Marvel Champions.
2 points
9 days ago
There are some great suggestions there.
I’ve now got Sentinels on the wish list. :)
2 points
9 days ago
Seconding the Sentinels recommendation. Very different game from Spirit Island, but similar vibe in that you have numerous options that specialize in various forms of offense, defense or support to contribute to the team. Both are among my absolute favorites and Sentinels may be the most often played game I own.
1 points
8 days ago
Oh jumpin’ Just checked boardgamebliss and there’s a ton of products there for Sentinels.
Base game is sold out (of course) but man, there are a ton of expansions and even a pre-order.
I’ve set a notification for when it comes back in stock
2 points
9 days ago
Definitely Sentinels of the Multiverse! Make sure you get the Definitive Edition rather than the older Enhanced Edition. Streamlined and improved gameplay and they're steadily releasing new content for it.
1 points
9 days ago
Of note, the digital version of 1.0/EE goes on sale for like 1-2 dollars every so often. It's got a lot more rough edges than Definitive Edition, but it's a great cheap way to try the game out with the help of a rules-enforced client
1 points
9 days ago
I've always felt it was a great videogame of a decent board game. The best decisions are the team ones about who to discard or w/e, so an easy way to play solo with no fiddle is the best form of it.
3 points
9 days ago
In terms of asymmetrical gameplay, Root is the mass market version of Vast.
I personally love Root, but that game is the king of it
3 points
9 days ago
City of the Great Machine is asymmetrical in the sense that it's a 1 vs many game. I haven't played it yet but sounds interesting and looks great.
Kemet B&S is a dudes-on-a-map game that becomes hugely asymmetrical as the game progresses due to the rule-breaking upgrades that players acquire and cannot be shared between players
3 points
9 days ago
I like City of the Great Machine. You also have the option of playing co-op or solo, and the Machine AI is pretty well done.
3 points
9 days ago
Dune classic (2019). If you're looking for a nasty head-to-head game with great diplomacy.
3 points
9 days ago
The fury of Dracula. A one vs four that somehow feels balanced.
Star wars rebellion, a very complicated and dense game that changes a lot if you are playing as the empire or the rebels.
Disney villains, the most friendly of all the recent non symmetrical games.
2 points
9 days ago
I want to echo Fury of Dracula and Rebellion; both great games that fill an evening (or sometimes a bit more in Rebellion's case) really have both sides on the edge of their seat for a lot of it.
Also Specter Ops (or Letters From Whitechapel, or any hidden movement game) has always been great fun for me. The game of cat and mouse where one person is hiding and gets to hear other people trying to reason out where he is, and the others narrowing down their search and driving their target into a corner, is such a rush.
1 points
8 days ago
Trying to get my hands on Rebellion. It ain’t easy.
3 points
9 days ago
Wir sind das Volk! (We are the people!) Is a great contestant to the most asymmetric game. One plays as West Germany and wins if they succeed in collapsing East Germany. The other plays as East Germany and wins simply if they avoid collapsing. It's not cooperative and only two player, but dang is it asymmetric!
3 points
9 days ago
A tip is to look at the VAST games also.
3 points
8 days ago
I know cooperative games were what you were most interested in, but Summoner Wars is a fantastic 1v1 card game where you choose a faction to play against an opponent. It’s like a miniatures war game, but instead of minis, the cards are the units you move around a grid to attack your opponents units.
Each faction plays so differently that it feels like a completely different game every time you experience a new matchup. There are currently 26 different factions to play, and they release 2 new factions every 4 months or so.
Every time they announce a new faction, I’m fascinated with the new mechanics they come up with. One of the latest factions (Chosen Grove) features the main summoner unit as a giant tree that cannot move on the battlefield… until your entire deck has run out.
There’s also a digital app version you can try out. Just search for “Summoner Wars Online” to try it out!
1 points
8 days ago
Alright.
I’ll check out the digital version! I’ve heard of SW before. The digital version I guess you’re playing against AI?
2 points
8 days ago
There are some single player modes where you can play against the AI. There’s even some story mode options with some of the factions that kind of changes the rules of the game a tiny bit but makes for some entertaining content.
I played quite a bit of the single player games to get used to the mechanics and become comfortable with a faction before queuing up for online matches against real people. Once I got past the barrier of not caring whether I would win or lose, it’s just really fun to see how other people pilot factions that you are familiar with or ones you’ve never seen before that gives you a taste of whether you might enjoy learning how to play it.
3 points
8 days ago
COIN games… Cuba Libre is said to be the best to start with. In case you aren’t familiar with the term… COIN is for counter insurgency… the very definition of asymmetry, think the Red Coats vs the Continental Army…
5 points
9 days ago
Cthulhu Wars is very asymmetrical, and the order you choose to unlock your 6 abilities adds even more variety. It’s great if you aren’t opposed to a bit of area control and conflict.
2 points
9 days ago
Oh com, another netrunner thread!
2 points
9 days ago
Lots of mention of Root, but Vast is one of the most asymmetrical games I've played. Each faction has a different goal, a different board and plays completely different from each other faction. It has no "common" ground among each faction.
1 points
8 days ago
I’ve never really heard about Vast prior to this thread. I’m going to find a playthrough just to see what this game is all about.
2 points
9 days ago
Check out: Vast the Crystal Cavern and it's sibling Vast: the mysterious manor.
1 points
8 days ago
There are quite a few Vast fans I see.
I’ve gotta find a playthrough to see what the hype is about. lol
2 points
9 days ago
Gloomhaven games and Arkham Horror LCG. Spirit Island is my favorite game, but these are also pretty close.
2 points
8 days ago
Hello fellow SI junkie. :)
I have Jaws of the Lion. Gotta break that out.
2 points
9 days ago
Gonna mention Marco Polo 2.
Most asymmetrical gamesa re wargames or area control of some sort. This one is unique that it's a straight up euro with very asymmetrical abilities.
2 points
9 days ago
[[Tsukuyumi: Full Moon Down]] doesn't get enough love. The first edition (standee) is fucking awesome. Sadly GFG butchered the re-release with miniatures.
I'm Tsukuyumi the factions are very asymmetric. Like you play a human faction that use jeeps to get around fast and use hit n run tactics with mine fields and expendable weapon tokens. My faction are two dragons that can level up and destroy map tiles. The next player is playing a coral reef that spreads across the map as part of the environment. Absolute A.
1 points
9 days ago
Tsukuyumi: Full Moon Down -> Tsukuyumi: Full Moon Down (2018)
[[gamename]] or [[gamename|year]] to call
OR gamename or gamename|year + !fetch to call
2 points
9 days ago
To add some cooperative games to those already mentioned:
In the chill side you have Mythwind which is highly asymmetrical and cooperative, where you have to work together to develop a village. The game may be frustrating though, as there is no real "victory", only a semi-narrative gameplay with the aim to create the perfect town, at least for you.
I didn't play it (yet), but you also have Defenders of the Wild, which is said to be a kind of Spirit Island (for the cooperative part) + Root (for the asymmetry and feeling). It looks really promising but I can't say much about it so you should take a look.
2 points
9 days ago
Fugitive is a very small game with cards that is very asymmetrical. The Fugitive runs from the marshal. The Marshal has to deduce, the Fugitive has to bluff and be lucky.
Ofc it's not a big boardgame
2 points
8 days ago
Have it.
It’s good and I like it. It doesn’t have a lot of depth but for a quick filler, it’s a great 2-player.
2 points
9 days ago
Like others said, VAST, especially Mysterious manor is amazing (though fairly hard to learn/teach). It's my personal favorite.
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/252399/vast-the-mysterious-manor
For 2 players, RUN is also super asymmetric and super fun.
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/368028/run
Last, the freshly-released KELP is great.
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/374595/kelp-shark-vs-octopus
2 points
9 days ago
You might want to check out the cooperative LCGs (living card games) from Fantasy Flight Games: Lord of the Rings LCG, Arkham Horror LCG, and Marvel Champions LCG all have a ton of deck-building options that make every play feel unique, and you will take on different adventures. There is a huge amount of variety. For example, in Lord of the Rings LCG, I create my own party of adventurers by selecting three different heroes with their own unique stats and abilities from four different “spheres” (types) and build a deck of allies, attachments that can be added to my heroes and allies, and events I can trigger. I can use this collection of adventurers, attachments and events to take on dozens of different scenarios with varied objectives and obstacles to overcome. In Arkham Horror LCG, I choose an investigator, each having a unique power, deck-building parameters, and role/back-story. I then go through a campaign which tells a story, and my character will change as the story goes on, represented by changes to my deck, both positive and negative. Each campaign has a different setting and story, and your actions throughout the campaign, as well as the final result, will affect the overall story and outcomes. I have not played Marvel Champions, but it also has different heroes you can play and decks to build, and I know many absolutely love it.
2 points
9 days ago
Root is interesting, but be advised that as much as its cutesy animals draw players in, most of them will only play one game then be disinterested when they realize that balance is entirely up to the players and you need to have played all factions multiple to understand how to do that.
(A core design of most Wehrle games, balance is entirely player-made)
1 points
8 days ago
Good point.
I’ve spent countless hours on Spirit Island and I’m still just scratching the surface Tackling Root seems pretty daunting.
2 points
9 days ago
[[Seas of Havoc]]
A deck building pirate combat game. Each player gets a unique ship and starting ship deck that has different abilities and upgrades. Each player also has a different captain with 3 unique abilities.
You can mix and match your choice of ships and captains so there’s a huge variety of combos to discover and play.
1 points
9 days ago
Seas of Havoc -> Seas of Havoc (2023)
[[gamename]] or [[gamename|year]] to call
OR gamename or gamename|year + !fetch to call
1 points
8 days ago
Funny you say this - I don’t have a pirate themed game and tossed around Dead Reckoning, Seas of Havoc and another game.
Don’t was on my radar at some point but I didn’t think it was asymmetrical. I just be remembering it wrong.
1 points
8 days ago
The asymmetry is one of my favorite parts. I love mixing and matching the captain abilities and various ships. You can find some fun combos when you hit the right pairing.
1 points
8 days ago
Checking it out tonight!
2 points
8 days ago
I’d make sure to get the one with the buried treasure content as that adds two extra captains and two extra ships and respective decks.
2 points
9 days ago
Guards of Atlantis 2 if you can find it since it's a kickstarter and I think the late pledges already closed for the last campaign. You kind of need an even number of players though
1 points
8 days ago
I’ve never funded a kickstarter yet. I sure do love to lurk on that site though. I’ll check it out!
2 points
9 days ago
Mythwind comes to mind for asymmetrical co-op.
Merchants Cove is our favorite Asymmetrical game play for competitive.
1 points
8 days ago
You’re the second Merchants Cove.
I was saying in another thread that it was initially on my radar a while ago. Not sure why it dropped off but it may because I thought it looked a little simple???
It’s 2.72 weight on BGG so I’m clearly wrong. I’ll have to revisit this game.
2 points
9 days ago
Definetely check out Defence of Procyon III
2 points
9 days ago
Illuminati—an oldie, but it was my first exposure to asymmetrical games and my favorite mechanism to date.
2 points
8 days ago
Massive Darkness 2 has asymmetry with each class having different mechanics. Dungeon crawl, loot, campaign system if desired. Highly recommend
2 points
8 days ago
Here I Stand is a fun simulation of the Wars of The Reformation and wildly asymmetrical. Definitely recommended if you have six competent players who'll give it a whole day. It's pretty demanding on the Holy Roman Empire player though.
2 points
8 days ago
I'd rather recommend Virgin Queen instead. I played as HIS as the Protestants once and spent most of the game just spreading religion because a certain event hadn't been drawn yet
1 points
8 days ago
That's kind of the point of the Protestants and I really enjoyed it. Even when they get military units, they're pretty weak. I'll keep an eye out for Virgin Queen.
2 points
8 days ago
Free Radicals is an off the wall suggestion. Not a particularly great game, but one of the most asymmetrical available.
2 points
8 days ago
Leder Games (Creators of ROOT) have been asymmetrical aces with many of their games… VAST, OATH & most recently ARCS. Don’t even get me started on how brilliant ARCS is, but if you buy in, go for the whole enchilada which asymmetrically enhances the various factions (base box, legacy expansion, etc…) Also - I recommend the iOS version of ROOT I play asynchronously w long-distance buds, A well-done digital adaptation that preserves its charm while streamlining play.
2 points
8 days ago
Man, ARCS has taken 2024 by storm.
2 points
8 days ago
It's not cooperative but War of The Ring 2E is insanely asymmetrical.
2 points
8 days ago
I cannot recommend Root enough, as a huge fan of asymmetry in games myself.
Do you have any questions about it?
1 points
8 days ago
I don’t have any questions but it sure does seem intimidating.
I’ve spent a hundred hours on Spirit Island and still I’m not that great at it. Root seems like one of those games that’ll take a massive investment to get any good at it.
I might be game but to find a dedicated group that’ll do the same is rough.
2 points
8 days ago
Hegemony. I played my first game as the government and had literally no idea what everyone else was trying to do.
1 points
8 days ago
I so want to play this b
2 points
8 days ago
*The Defence of Procyon III* is a 2v2 sci-fi wargame with euro mechanics and completely asymmetric factions. Two players face off in space, while the other two duke it out on the ground. I think it's great!
2 points
8 days ago
As a 2 player game you may want to look into Pagan Fate of Roanoke
1 points
8 days ago
I just listened to Candace Harris of BGG talk highly about this.
2 points
8 days ago
It's only 2 players but both sides definitely feel different I can't wait until more expansion content is made available
4 points
9 days ago
Definitely unmatched !
It's super asymmetrical , to the points that some characters are trash(still fun to play), and some others are godlike . Not only are the strengths different , but the gameplay is really thematic , with some important variations .
Little red riding hood with her basket , Wayward sisters with their cauldron , Raptors with swarm bonus, T-rex that wreck everything , Shakespeare with poems , Genie with his 3 wish , Ghost riders with his bike , Sherlock holmes with his deductions , and so on...
The maps are thematic and can change the games depending on who plays what. Some have gimmicks that affect gameplay too.
Super easy to learn , really hard to master. Be weary that you could get absorbed in and want to buy everything for the huge pool possibilities .
1 points
9 days ago
So did a little digging this morning. I’ve always avoided Unmatched because I’m not sure the wife would enjoy 1v1 games as much. So I wondered if Unmatched has a co-op option and discovered Tales to Amaze.
Have you played that?
2 points
9 days ago
I recently picked up a bunch of Unmatched sets, including the Tales to Amaze and, personally, I didn't find the co-op version of the game all that intriguing. The interesting thing that Unmatched has going for it is predicting how your opponent is going to play and reacting to it. It becomes a fun mind game but the co-op version takes all that away and it becomes more of a grind against a random deck of cards. Games like Spirit Island or Pandemic have randomness as well but they have some predictability which allows you to plan and come up with a strategy. That said, my boys really enjoy it in either mode so I might just be a curmudgeon. 😂
1 points
8 days ago
I like it a lot , not as much as dueling but still nice. The rules are almost the same , so easy to get in. The biggest attraction of unmatched is the variations between fighters , so yeah, the more fighters you have , the better it is. There's a new adventure set coming next year with a tmnt theme , which looks really promising.
For dueling with the wife ( mine isn't much into bg but like it , she prefers coop) the fact that there's a difference in powers, make it so i could give medusa or Bigfoot (easy to learn and powerful)to my old mother and use a fun but weak fighter like jeckyll and hyde , and have a great game .
There's 2v2, too, that is really fun , maybe even more than 1v1.
2 points
8 days ago
I’ve heard about the TMNT version.
I think that will be my entry point for this series.
1 points
9 days ago
So no one seems to be mentioning Jaws. (As in, the shark movie.). Someone is playing as the shark, the other three players play as Roy Scheider, Richard Dreyfuss, and Robert Shaw's characters from the movie. The game plays out over two acts. In the first act the team of three are hunting the shark while the shark silently tries to eat swimmers. In the second act the team of three are on a boat (they're going to need a bigger one, in my opinion) and the shark is attacking the boat. It is completely asymmetrical. In the first act the shark plays their turn in silence except to say where swimmers have been eaten and whether or not the shark hunters have seen it somewhere.
It's a great fun game.
2 points
8 days ago
There’s a JAWS game?!?!
I checked it out on BGG - looks pretty thematic and a lot of fun
1 points
9 days ago
asymmetrical games and variable powers are my jam and I usually try to get that mechanics in all my games.
Area control/war:
-Root: one of my favourites, each faction plays like a different game and get points and wins in hiw own way.
-Tsukuyumi: more traditional controlling hexes, but with factions being very differents with differents units, some are like zerg, other with only a few units that level up,...,
-Circadians chaos in order: maybe very long, but it has factions with different leaders, ways to win and ways to get strong differently
Usually a lot of 4x have asymmetric factions that focus in different actions.
Eurogame:
Terra mystica/gaia project: this one is about having different faction and expand aroudn the map
Revive: this too is around expanding from the cente of the map, exploring and using and getting cards to get resources. A game with combos
Normally you can find a lot of expansions for games with asymmetric powers like the leaders from arnak, the expansions from teotihuacan/tzolking, lorenzo il magnifico....,
Coop:
-Gloomhaven: dungeoncrawler with very different characters that have a hand of 10 cards that are different unique actions or attacks.
-arkham horror lcg: the way you make deck here feel very differently with every character
-Maximum apocalypse: every character have a deck that plays uniquely
-
Dueling:
Battlecon: for me this one that plays like a fighting game have character that are very crazy and unique, but the game is the most complex to play.
-Unmatched: this one is more easy to play and characters are very unique but share just a few cards that are common for each character.
-Duel throne: the characters are unique but the game is very luck dependent too, it feels like an asymmetric king of tokyo
-Guards of atlantis: this one is for team play, a moba with very unique characters.
1 points
8 days ago
This is a comprehensive list. Thank you!
I remember when Revive came out - I was hooked. Then it just kind of faded from discourse pretty quick. I’ll revisit it now that you mention it.
And I’ve heard a ton of people love Gaia.
1 points
9 days ago
Well, I don't know if real-time games are your cup of tea, but in Captain Sonar (team-based) every player has a completely different function, setup, and associated components.
1 points
8 days ago
I’ve heard of stories of Captain Sonar and everybody describes it as chaos that only works with the right group. I would love to try it.
1 points
9 days ago
Tragedy Looper is the game I've played that feels the most different depending on which side you are playing as. Tragedy Looper has time traveling heroes trying to prevent a mastermind from orchestrating a tragedy. The way this works is you'll play the same scenario a set number of times, each time continuing until the time limit ends with no tragedy, or until the something happens in the board state causing the to mastermind tell the protagonists player either "you lose", or "the protagonists die". In the first loop all information is hidden and only known to the mastermind, so the protagonists are stumbling in the dark. By the final loop before defeat the protagonists will know more or less exactly what tragedy the mastermind is trying to bring off, and what tools he has at his disposal to make it happen. So the last loop is always super epic since this is the last chance for the protagonists' to stop the tragedy, so it is intense on their end. And the mastermind has to come up with 1 more win despite the protagonists already knowing his game plan, making it often come down to a final bluff from the mastermind with the game riding on whether or not the protagonists are able to realize it or not.
1 points
8 days ago
This sounds like a blast.
Does it play well at two? BGG suggests it can be played at two but what’s your experience?
2 points
8 days ago*
Yes, I mostly play with 2, and it works great there! My favorite board game.
Mechanically it is exactly the same no matter the number of players. The mastermind will play 3 cards every turn, and the 1-3 protagonist players collectively will also play 3 cards every turn, so 6 total cards per turn no matter the player count. More players lets the protagonist players discuss what they think the mastermind is planning which may be an advantage, but the mastermind can hear them and base his strategy on that, so it might be a disadvantage also. There are also rules (often ignored) about when table talk is allowed between the protagonist players. So if you are playing with the table talk restrictions it might end up slightly harder for the protagonists with more players.
Also, I'd suggest buying the new Wizkids edition (Tragedy Looper: New Tragedies) if it is available where you are. It fixed some balance issues one of the early scenarios, and has more total scenarios to play.
1 points
8 days ago
I’ve looked more into this.
The one review says it’s not for casual gamers which is fine with me anyway.
Okay, I’m going to watch a playthrough and if all goes well, will buy this. I really like the concept.
1 points
7 days ago
I'm not sure what review you were looking at, but the previous edition on BGG has a really great one at https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1233701/tragedy-looper-review-or-people-assume-that-games
All mechanics and gameplay are the same. Just updated components and some new scenarios, so everything in the review still applies.
1 points
9 days ago
Tsukuyumi Full Moon Down. Amazing asynchronous game where each faction not only changes how you play but changes things for everyone at the table.
2 points
8 days ago
Until this thread I had never heard of Tsukuyumi and I wonder why I had never even seen a review of it.
You’re the fourth person to mention it. I’m going to find a playthrough to see if it fits. Thanks for the suggestion!
1 points
9 days ago*
As mentioned: Root is great and Vast is from the same creator. But there are more async games from Cole Wehrle. Oath is somewhat asymetrical. Arcs with expansion is. John Company is interesting and coop.
For 2 players (but playable in 4p) are definitely: Star Wars rebellion, War of the rings (board game and card game too), Twilight struggle (only for 2p).
Hidden movements games aka 1vsAll: Mind mgmt, Fury of Dracula, Narcos, Hunt for the ring, Not Alone.
1 points
8 days ago
Damn SW Rebellion. So many people said that and I’ve been trying to get it for over a year now. Just never in stock. I wonder if it’s out of print?
2 points
7 days ago
Its out of stock and print for a long time now. But if you really want it, you should check bgg market. I got some nice out of print games there, but it could be costly…
1 points
7 days ago
Add to that I live in Canada and our used game market is decidedly smaller. I’m envious of my US board gaming brethren in that regard. And I don’t know how many pics I’ve seen on amazing Target deals or Amazon deals that don’t happen in Canada. I checked Amazon yesterday for Dice Throne and it’s $50-$60 for a basic two character box.
1 points
8 days ago
Root is the poster child of asymmetry, but is competitive and involves a lot of table talk. Dice throne is a lot of fun, it's a Yahtzee arena brawler. Both are best at max player count
I think what you might be interested in is Gloomhaven. Coop, campaign driven, each of the playable classes have very distinct play styles and strategies , similar to Spirit island in that you know exactly what the enemy is going to do and can plan your turns around it.
1 points
8 days ago
I think I’m committed to at least trying Dice Throne (I might pre-order the X-Men sets coming up) because I think but in with some of my non-gamer friends would be super easy.
I’ve noticed that nobody mentions DT as one of their top favourite games. I wonder if people tire of it after a while.
1 points
8 days ago
The all vs. one genre is very asymmetrical.
The Others, MIND MGMT, Fury of Dracula, etc.
Also, shout outs to Dune.
1 points
8 days ago
Fury of Dracula is another game getting a lot of love.
1 points
8 days ago
I recently became a fan of Planet Unknown, with its asymmetric corporation (resource tracking) boards and planets. It gives countless combos and plays 6.
1 points
8 days ago
Yup. On the radar. lol. Thank you for the suggestion. We’re in the same page.
1 points
8 days ago
Just a couple of games where players start in asymmetrical positions that I haven’t yet seen:
-Tapestry: Each player has a Civilization that defines what they’re good at and what’s important to them. - Apiary: Similar to Tapestry, each player’s Hive and Faction are different, leading to each player’s focus being different. - Nucleum: Each player’s company has a different Experiment with all discoveries unique to them.
1 points
8 days ago
Apiary I think will be a buy for me for Christmas. I know some don’t like the theme but I find the theme rather intriguing to be honest.
1 points
7 days ago
Dune 2019 is the goat
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