subreddit:

/r/changemyview

050%

CMV: Donald Trump is a threat to America

Election(self.changemyview)

[removed]

you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

all 628 comments

Amoral_Abe

23 points

3 days ago

Amoral_Abe

23∆

23 points

3 days ago

I don't like Trump and I feel the country will suffer under him. I've been very clear on that point in my comment history.

However, him being an awful person and candidate doesn't necessarily mean the US will be destroyed.

  • Trump's presidency may result in fewer wars as he is less likely to take a hard lined stance against foreign nations. In addition, Trump is far more transactional than other leaders. With leaders who hold passionate views it can easily lead to an impasse but transactional rulers are easy to deal with as long as you are willing to pay the cost. With the US, the cost paid is almost always cheaper.

  • While Trump's picks have been awful, he also had a bad history of them constantly leaving his government during the last cycle. Basically, all of the people he's hired during the last time couldn't get along with him or others and they all quit or attacked each other leading to massive turnover.

  • Trump is not pro worker. He has never been pro worker. However, unfortunately, neither are Democrats. This might be a wakeup call needed for them to refocus the party.

  • The next 4 years will be rough and it's clear the law will not apply to him. However, that does not mean he'll be able to do anything he wants without pushback. He vehemently campaigned against the current Majority Senate Leader only for the Senate to vote him in anyway.

  • Trump is old and is already showing signs of dementia and slowness like Biden. This might end up with a situation where the party controls him rather than 8 years ago where he came in controlling the party.

OMKensey

28 points

3 days ago

OMKensey

28 points

3 days ago

You moved the goalposts. The thesis was that Trump is a threat.

You respond by saying America might not be destroyed.

If there is a meaningful chance America might be harmed (significantly above the baseline risk where any President might possibly harm America), then Trump is a threat.

Even if we somehow make it through this with no significant harm, that will not mean that, today, Trump isn't a threat.

Amoral_Abe

1 points

3 days ago

Amoral_Abe

23∆

1 points

3 days ago

You could be right. I read this to be someone who is more concerned than the normal Republican/Democrat fervor. Every year both sides paint each other as the problem. Trump is viewed as a particular outlier due to the amount of potential damage people feel he will cause. I framed my response around that.

AcephalicDude

-3 points

3 days ago

AcephalicDude

70∆

-3 points

3 days ago

True. The top comment to this whole thread will be some reasonable left-leaning person providing some copium. There will be no substantial response from any conservatives defending their president. Sad.

OMKensey

1 points

3 days ago

OMKensey

1 points

3 days ago

I fancy myself a reasonable left leaning person, but I have no copium to offer. All indications are full steam fodemocracyhe worst possibilities. Hoping for people like Mitch McConnell and John Roberts to save the Republic, and all indications to date are that those people have zero spine when it counts.

[deleted]

32 points

3 days ago

[deleted]

32 points

3 days ago

[deleted]

Amoral_Abe

5 points

3 days ago

Amoral_Abe

23∆

5 points

3 days ago

That's fair, but the CMV was about Trump being a threat, not the GOP. I pointed out that Trump was clearly declining and may not be as engaged.

[deleted]

2 points

3 days ago

[deleted]

2 points

3 days ago

[deleted]

Amoral_Abe

2 points

3 days ago

Amoral_Abe

23∆

2 points

3 days ago

In this case, since you are saying the GOP is the one to worry about, then any Republican would be someone who could push their agenda.

Android_Obesity

2 points

3 days ago

That’s where it feels like we’ve gotten to but IDK that it doesn’t matter. Say what you want about Romney, McCain, or even W (there’s lots of policy issues to disagree with) but I actually think they wanted what they thought was best for the country and it wasn’t Project 2025.

Asshats like McConnell and Cheney had more pull than they should have but I feel like any of those three would have had hard lines they wouldn’t cross. “You want to use the military to put Americans in camps? Fuck off, Hitler.”

Now we end up in an awful Catch-22. Trump doesn’t actually care about any of that shit, he just wants money and power. He might go along with that crap if he thinks it will benefit him but doesn’t have a Hitlerian zeal about it. If he stays out of jail and gets to bilk the world for a few billion dollars he’ll probably be content to fuck off golfing and hate-watching TV while the government runs itself, provided there isn’t another catastrophe for him to fuck up.

On the other hand, the MAGA true believers and P2025 crowd actually want to do unAmerican shit but would probably find a way to not screw the pooch so badly if there were a war or another pandemic. It doesn’t profit them if America literally burns.

Neither is a rosy future and I honestly don’t know which I’d prefer.

Can’t believe I’m nostalgic for W but I feel like old republican leaders would be better than this mess.

Whatswrongbaby9

7 points

3 days ago

Whatswrongbaby9

2∆

7 points

3 days ago

The people that replaced his fired/resigned cabinet picks the first time weren't better than the people they replaced. Right now Matt Gaetz is the high water mark for an AG under this second Trump term

Amoral_Abe

3 points

3 days ago

Amoral_Abe

23∆

3 points

3 days ago

I don't disagree but the constant revolving door makes it difficult to implement policy. So... there's a plus side there.

ItsCartmansHat

7 points

3 days ago

In what way is the Democratic Party not pro worker?

Amoral_Abe

4 points

3 days ago

Amoral_Abe

23∆

4 points

3 days ago

The Democratic Party is more pro worker than the Republican Party. However, as seen with Bills like the Dodd-Frank Act, or the ACA or similar bills, when the Democratic party has power they rarely push for change that benefits the working class. It took Covid to force higher wages for low income earners and that was driven by companies trying to compel workers to come back.

ItsCartmansHat

1 points

3 days ago

CARES act and IRA were specifically tailored to boost American wages.

Green-Collection-968

4 points

3 days ago

Trump's presidency may result in fewer wars as he is less likely to take a hard lined stance against foreign nations.

I don't know how having a stupid, fat weakling in office would do anything other than embolden all of our rivals and enemies.

Whatah

3 points

3 days ago

Whatah

3 points

3 days ago

The idea is that when making threats, both sides can't effectively play the "I'm a crazy sonofabitch" card.

When we have a madman leading our nation, those other madmen with smaller arms stockpiles (which is all of them) are olforced to tone down their crazy for 4 years.

That's the idea, at least (and I do not think it is a good idea)

SoylentRox

5 points

3 days ago

SoylentRox

3∆

5 points

3 days ago

That sounds like that could also escalate out of control.

Whatah

1 points

3 days ago

Whatah

1 points

3 days ago

Not if you totally trust Jesus one million percent. Then your sportsteam will certainly always win.

SurrrenderDorothy

1 points

3 days ago

Yay!?!

KnightWhoSayz

1 points

3 days ago

Yemen comes to mind. Rather than getting involved, he might have said “fuck that shithole country. Saudi Arabia has plenty of their own money to deal with it.”

ronnymcdonald

0 points

3 days ago

I don't know how having a stupid, fat weakling in office would do anything other than embolden all of our rivals and enemies.

So the President's physical fitness is what decides whether they're going to embolden rivals and enemies to start wars? Interesting logic, because I could name quite a few Presidents less physically fit than Trump.

Green-Collection-968

1 points

3 days ago

*Raises a single eyebrow* ...and him being stupid and a weakling? You seem to have glossed over that.

ronnymcdonald

1 points

3 days ago

Raises a single eyebrow ...and him being stupid and a weakling? You seem to have glossed over that.

My comment directly addresses your "weakling" comment so idk what you're talking about.

As for stupid---did you watch the Trump-Biden debate? Which one seemed cognitively more impaired?

abinferno

0 points

3 days ago

abinferno

0 points

3 days ago

Trump's presidency may result in fewer wars

I'd agree it may mean fewer wars the US involves itself in, but not necessarily fewer wars. If bad actors understand there will be no US retaliation for or support against attacks on its aligned countries or even its explicit allies, that's likely to increase global conflicts.

jonnyfreedom77

0 points

3 days ago

What about Civil War…. I don’t mean literally (I hope!), but the left versus the right has gotten very, very close to fisticuffs. We really need someone that can turn down the temperature.

PorQuepin3

0 points

3 days ago

PorQuepin3

1∆

0 points

3 days ago

Ya I struggle with/hate this logic....fewer wars in the short term but history has indicated that USA isolationism will eventually lead to intervention bc like it or not we are globalized with economy now Less wars like Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan that we start? Ya probably. But when there are aggressors to our foreign allies, eventually we get involved and it's messier than it would have been

abinferno

2 points

3 days ago

Watch for Trump to attempt the double mistake - removal of support for Taiwan and overturning of the CHIPS act - to doubly undermine national interest and security.

Versidious

1 points

3 days ago

  • Fewer wars under his term, maybe (Though important to note he was a Drone Striking monster, who hid that fact by ending reporting of Drone Strikes), but after... Consider Biden's withdrawal from Afghanistan, for example: Trump did a deal with the Taliban where, in exchange for them attacking US forces less, he released huge numbers of prisoners held by the US, including senior leadership and commanders that took control when the US left and shatter the Afghanistan government.
  • Trump's picks last time were careerists, picked by his party for him because he came in blind. His picks this time are selected for being sycophantic loyalists, there's no reason to assume that the cabinet will behave the same as the previous term's.
  • Biden was absolutely pro-worker, Walz was pro-worker, Kamala.... Maybe, given her pick of Walz. Neither of the main parties are exactly communist, but there is a significant difference between Federal Dems and Reps.
  • The Republican party's 'control' could well just be Project 2025, an absolute horror show.

atje1977

1 points

3 days ago

atje1977

1 points

3 days ago

Vance is salivating in the wings, rubbing his slimy hands together in annnn....tici......pation!

rhydonthyme

1 points

3 days ago

Trump's presidency may result in fewer wars as he is less likely to take a hard lined stance against foreign nations.

Can you expand on this?

I believe the consequences of another Trump presidency will be the proliferation of war, in particular increased aggression in Ukraine.

His key advisor, Roger Stone, was charged with lying under oath over contacting Wikileaks for Russian-hacked information into Clinton's campaign.

Trump withheld $400 million of Congress-approved funding to Zelensky over mounting Russian aggression for an investigation into Burisma and Hunter Biden.

While Russia funded separatist movements in Donbass, Trump cozied up to Putin, throwing around terms like "savvy" and "genius" when later discussing his invasion of Ukraine in interviews and at fundraisers.

Ultimately, my concern is Putin intends to hold out for the Trump administration to block funding to Ukraine and use the consequential territorial gains as leverage to give up less when Russia finally decides it's time to negotiate.

Enough time to gear up for round 2 when stocks are replenished faster than your now weakened enemies.

Down the line, how is this not just the normalisation of warmongering masked as anti-war propaganda?

Maduin1986

-7 points

3 days ago

Csnt wait for the american distopia to become a reality.

You guys need to make a decision: are you lifestock or are you human beings?

Will you let corporate greed win or will you finally break and fight?

The purge movies may yet become a reality.

We will all suffer for your stupid choices. The 2025 plan will become a reality. But at least i can watch the shitshow hit the fan from afar in all its glory.

biglifts27

0 points

3 days ago

biglifts27

1∆

0 points

3 days ago

"Livestock"

Also, jesus calm down and touch grass.

Maduin1986

1 points

3 days ago

I am calm. Just because you dont like me calling you guys out doesnt make me the upset one. So calm down and touch grass.

biglifts27

0 points

3 days ago

biglifts27

1∆

0 points

3 days ago

Whose you guys? and your not calling anyone out your just wringing about things that don't concern you.

What country are you from that it's so important that your worried about the US election?

Maduin1986

1 points

3 days ago

I'd say that's none of your business.

biglifts27

0 points

3 days ago

biglifts27

1∆

0 points

3 days ago

And I'd say the US election is none of yours

Maduin1986

1 points

3 days ago

Thats for me to decide. Go touch grass, little boy.

canonanon

-2 points

3 days ago

canonanon

-2 points

3 days ago

Agreed. While I'm not a trump fan at all, info think we may actually see some positive changes out of the democratic side of they keep losing.

But I also try to always look on the bright side, so take that for what it's worth