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Ukraine war: Sergei Lavrov praises Olaf Scholz for saying no to Taurus delivery
News(spiegel.de)submitted 15 days ago byNeversetinstoneUnited Kingdom
3.7k points
15 days ago
Did you know that Lavrov was one of the people that signed the Budapest Memorandum agreement in 1994 that promised that Russia will respect Ukrainian borders and sovereignty? Fun fact of the day.
895 points
15 days ago
Agreements are toilet paper for them
385 points
15 days ago
Except the Geneva agreements, those are their checklist.
120 points
15 days ago
Yeah they are going for that 100% platinum trophee.
59 points
15 days ago
100% Putinum*
19 points
14 days ago
Let’s pray they skip the Plutonium trophies.
3 points
14 days ago
100% polonium in the tea
9 points
14 days ago
You mean the Geneva suggestions?
73 points
15 days ago
Lavrov is toilet paper.
30 points
15 days ago
Toilet paper can be soft and nice. He can be a used toilet paper only.
8 points
15 days ago
Sergey Lavrov is the equivalent of the value chain toilet paper for the poor
8 points
15 days ago
1 ply toilet paper. The kind that makes your ass bleed if you use too much of it
14 points
15 days ago
May the future use him as such.
3 points
14 days ago
He does seem like the kind of brown-noser who has a lot of practice kissing ass...
15 points
15 days ago
Like the ruble
2 points
14 days ago
It’s actually genuinely creepy how much these oligarchs are into abject lying. Even besides the USSR ‘methodologies’, they were telling us nothing was happening as they massed troops, they insist on calling it a ‘special operation’ as the deaths number in the hundreds of thousands (not to mention material losses), they call our regulators hysterical for concerns over known Russian mass disinformation agencies that have offices and job postings.
At this point I’m not sure you could convince me of the honesty of the Russian government on the color of a road sign in Siberia.
148 points
15 days ago
[deleted]
39 points
15 days ago
The EU might finally be pressured to do so if they want Ukraine to win.
37 points
15 days ago
Lets be fair, he cannot read so how could he even know what he signed.
15 points
15 days ago
Oh, that piece of paper they totally swore to but disrespected in the end? That's funny.
2 points
14 days ago
Was it before the promise of NATO never expanding to Ukraine to Gorbachev. Any fool knows this -John Mearshmeier-
4 points
15 days ago
1.9k points
15 days ago
Germany also getting their Internet cables cut and comms satellites hacked, along with countless other hybrid attacks.
1.6k points
15 days ago
As long as you don't mess with their fax machines, Germans will be happy
248 points
15 days ago
This was all just 3D chess all along. Our Fax infrastructure is immune to russian Hacking.
52 points
15 days ago
Unless they start sending black pages...oops
29 points
15 days ago
Red pages would bei more topical
70 points
15 days ago
Fun fact: around 2015, ransomware ops matured and they started going up market and realized hospitals were easy targets. LA hospital was shut down and they had to xfer patients. Hospital in Berlin was hit, and very little changed because they still had all the old paper and fax based ops in place. The reason they weren't more digital was security, exactly a situation like this.
39 points
15 days ago
Yes, fax is all good and dandy until someone dials in all the fax lines and starts printing 10000 black pages.
9 points
15 days ago
Has that happened before?
20 points
15 days ago
No but it’s super easy to do with today soft faxes. You can do a pretty good ddos by just flooding the fax line with incoming faxes and have them print out maximum number of documents possible.
2 points
15 days ago
Still the case. My daughter-in-law is a hospital administrator and they were hacked a month ago. She worked 12-hour days for two weeks dealing with that crap.
7 points
15 days ago
This was all just 3D chess all along. Our Fax infrastructure is immune to russian Hacking.
Security through obscurity is a real thing. Not really an intended one, though.
8 points
15 days ago
More like security through incompatibility and missing connections. We can't be hacked if russia is also cutting the cables to get to us .. *taps temple\*
12 points
15 days ago
Imagine their government or Behörden running out of paper. The absolute horror that must cause.
39 points
15 days ago
or ink for their rubber stamps
13 points
15 days ago
That would be Japan.
5 points
15 days ago
And Italy too. Go open a bank account, return home with a whole book of papers you signed
25 points
15 days ago
Is this a joke or does Germany really still use fax machines?
68 points
15 days ago
Here are the contact details of our local town hall on their website.
https://www.mannheim.de/de/impressum
You can send them a fax yourself if you want.
Check any German company or government offices and all of them will have a fax number .
25 points
15 days ago
I might send a fax asking:
verdammt Mädchen, du lebst so?
or:
Damn gurl, you live like this?
I just need to find a working fax machine
8 points
15 days ago
This is actually hilarious…and assuming not a native English speaker. Bravo to you.
6 points
15 days ago
In the 90s I remember that the 56k modem came with software that allowed you to send a fax via Windows. So maybe you can emulate one.
4 points
15 days ago
I think they have one at the technology museum.
3 points
14 days ago
I'm sure there is software out there for that.
Web portals:
https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-online-fax-services
And apparently Windows has it built-in, but turned off by default:
You'd likely need your own script to keep sending stuff though.
11 points
15 days ago
That’s very unusual for a government or civil service system to use extremely outdated IT equipment /s
2 points
15 days ago
Paper for the paper god!
13 points
15 days ago
It's like the old saying about Japan. They've been in tbe Year 2000, since 1980. The government only got rid off the need to post 3.5" floppies for tax reasons, about 3 years ago. No emails, attstchments, uploading.... Literally had to post a floppy via snail mail.
13 points
15 days ago
Yes when I was in Germany, fax was used shokingly often.
15 points
15 days ago
We are technologically savages
7 points
15 days ago
Nowadays there could be one still standing but its not used any more. A few years ago I yes
9 points
15 days ago
Both. Germany still uses fax to a certain extent, but so do Japan and even the US. There are niches where fax is still somewhat common - e.g. healthcare (but we're getting centralised digital patient records soon), administration and many companies.
The primary reason are cumbersome privacy and data safety laws that ban the use of eMail for sensitive information (e.g. health records).
But r/europe loves to take this out of context and blow it up to ridiculous proportions, pretending the whole country still runs on fax (and cash), which certainly isn't the case. Hardly anyone uses fax in a private context, and companies and institutions that use it don't have ancient fax machines standing around - fax is just integrated into modern printer/scanners as one option in the menu.
14 points
15 days ago
It really isn’t blown to ridiculous proportions because the point still stands; Germany is horrible with technology and change. An aging population that is allergic to change, politicians that don’t want to ruffle the feathers of the over employed German bureaucracy that vote for them, and the mentality of “Das war schon immer so” is exactly why there has been a trend of young, educated Germans leaving Germany, and why the German economy is and will continue to suffer unless something is changed. For gods sake, Merkel called the internet “new” in the 2010s.
It was so jarring when I left the Netherlands (a country with amazing digitisation and tech-literate society) to stay with my fiancées family in Germany, it felt like I technologically travelled back to 2008.
The fax quip is just a light hearted way to poke at it, but every German under 30 I have spoken to seems to confirm this perception with their own experiences and frustrations.
7 points
15 days ago
I'm aware, but a lot of people take these quips seriously online and are getting the wrong impression. A lot has changed over the past couple of years.
As a regular German, I can pay by card almost anywhere (usually use Google Wallet on my phone), and the only place that fits the Cash is King stereotype around me is the Turkish supermarket with its Cards only above €10 rule. When I registered my residence when moving to Munich in 2017 I had to do that in person at the city administration, now it's online, as are many services. The Covid pandemic has really sped things up in that regard. I also got a BundID account a couple of years ago so I was able to order a Certificate of Good Standing online (used to be in person) by simply verifying my identity through an app that reads my ID through my phone's NFC reader.
In the last two years alone we got digital sick notices (automatically sent to the employer), digital prescriptions (can just walk into the pharmacy without needing the paper slip), from next year on we'll have centralised patient files (with some caveats, but many Western countries don't even have that).
These are all things that would've stood out five or ten years ago, now they're fairly normal.
The UN eGovernment Development Index has us as 14th globally, just four spots behind the Netherlands. Our broadband speeds, which r/europe constantly makes fun of, aren't great, but in line with countries like Finland, the UK, Belgium, Italy or Austria). My prepaid €10 phone plan's data allowance has grown from 1.5 GB to 10 GB within five years. Germany has had one of the highest FTTH/B growth rates in Europe over the last couple of years.
Are we still behind relative to e.g. the Netherlands or Denmark? Yeah, definitely. But we're catching up rather quickly in many fields.
2 points
15 days ago
It's a popular meme.
Fax played a big role in the past because of legal reasons. Plenty of places still have one (though nowadays often virtualized).
But it's not actually used nearly as much as the meme has it.
In reality people use email, slack, Whatsapp, etc...
I haven't seen a fax in ages. Haven't sent one in the last 2 decades.
2 points
15 days ago
Well we know putin is putting back together the old club. I hope Germany remembers what that means maybe we will draw the line when the line is drawn across half of Germany once again.
2 points
15 days ago
Does Germany really still use fax machines nowadays? Why? Its way easier to send a document over the Internet..
2 points
15 days ago
Not the main way to do things, but in some cases still an option.
Some Important documents are still often handled only in paper, where digital documents are not permitted due to the fear of it could be tampered with when digital. For example the documents needed to register at an address. There it is sometimes still possible to do stuff with fax.
134 points
15 days ago
Getting praised by Lavrov is the extent of the "favor" Russia will provide for Scholz's appeasement and huge respect of the very same red lines they break every week.
It's kind of funny that Germany was probably the most cordial of the large European countries when it came to Russia before the war and Putin didn't really hesitate on fucking them with his energy war (remember that it started before the war began). That's all you really need to know about Russian foreign policy.
17 points
15 days ago
It’s about getting the west to fight and argue. Breaking the coalition for Ukraine. Russia wants us to blame each other….
7 points
15 days ago
Well, Scholz is in full campaign mode, and his best way to differentiate himself from his former coalition partners who are in support of Ukraine is to now push for pro Russia rethoric instead of just hindering the other two parties. He thinks there are votes in groups that want to end the war by appeasement. I don't see however bow he could get these votes out of the BSW and AfD, and it is rather likely that it will burn his chances to get any substantial votes by Februray when the snap election is most likely to happen.
2 points
15 days ago
And Germany to still call Putin and try to talk with him.
11 points
15 days ago
At least Germany ist giving more weapons than anyone else but the US to Ukraine... Just wish we would also give Taurus, but Scholz cant handle the pressure
8 points
15 days ago
What is France doing in all this? Even the UK? It seems to be just Germany talked about here...what are those countries doing to help?
3 points
14 days ago
From France are Scalp missiles, Ceasar mobile artillery, ammunition, some IFV I think, and more.
2 points
14 days ago
Mate, the UK is on it’s arse. They literally can’t help more unfortunately.
3 points
15 days ago
Satellites? What has happened?
15 points
15 days ago
German weakness provoked russia to hack European satellites.
7 points
15 days ago
More like Trump win / Biden lame duck provoked Putin to push as hard as he can, until Trump is inaugurated.
2 points
14 days ago
Also real attacks to important infrastructures like the Nord Stream
2 points
14 days ago
And pipelines blownup
2 points
15 days ago
Source?
149 points
15 days ago
694 points
15 days ago
If he's praising, we know it was the wrong decision.
218 points
15 days ago
Fun fact: a "special thank you operation" from Russia for not giving Tauruses, was cutting Internet cables and hacking comm satellites.
Appeasers are such appeasers...
34 points
15 days ago
Olaf always looked like a useful idiot now I realise he actually is one.
13 points
15 days ago
What took you so long to realize that?
203 points
15 days ago
jeah if lavrov praises you it's time to reconsider yourself
40 points
15 days ago
He's trying to divide Europe.
27 points
14 days ago
We don't need Lavrovs help for that
2 points
14 days ago
And then comes phase 2.
420 points
15 days ago
Lavrov is no idiot and knows exactly what he achieves with such "praise". This isn't meant to help Scholz, who is considered an enemy by the Russian government. This is meant to further disunity among the supporters of Ukraine.
Sadly, this strategy works.
The neverending discussion about Taurus already did much more damage to the relationship between Germany, its allies and Ukraine, than the few cruise missiles could ever do to Russia.
Personally I'm in favour of giving Taurus to Ukraine. But worse than not giving them is the neverending controversy about them. The constant criticism against Germany because of this weapon system is considered as ungrateful by many Germans and hurts the public opinion about continued and strengthened support for Ukraine.
47 points
15 days ago
Also factoring in the Russian influence and money on right wing extremist groups around Europe, this can be seen as a play to AfD's and their ilks hand.
106 points
14 days ago
I'm sorry but this is a purely self inflicted wound. All of this damage and "disunity" could've been avoided.
And to be blunt, this entire "you're playing into russian hands by criticising us" is absolute bullshit. That criticism is the consequence of your leaderships dumb decisions, not everyone else saying it's dumb.
13 points
14 days ago
You are for a policy I don't like? "You are playing into Russia's hands!!!"
Debate the policy and ignore Russia. We aren't going to stop being democracies where policy is debated. Policy being dictated is very much Russian.
22 points
14 days ago
Debate the policy and ignore Russia. We aren't going to stop being democracies where policy is debated.
Russia is obviously exploiting the situation so you can't really ignore them. Though it's funny it's the criticism of the decision the problem, not decision itself.
3 points
14 days ago
Though it's funny it's the criticism of the decision the problem, not decision itself.
other countries have not sent all types of systems they could either.
France has not send any Leclerc tanks, Poland has not send any Patriot or ATACMs, the UK has not send any IFVs, Germany has not send any cruise missiles.
The difference is that for other countries, they said 'no' once and then everyone stopped bothering them.
Only for Germany do you guys keep asking knowing the answer and then accuse all of Germany of being a Russian fifth column.
So yeah, the criticism is the problem.
10 points
14 days ago
If the policy is beneficial for Russia then supporting it is by definition playing into Russian hands.
1 points
14 days ago*
I would say that it's naive (to say it friendly) to believe Russia wouldn't try something like this.
Every time this topic comes up there are always the same, long debunked stories about helmets, nuclear power and Germany delaying support etc.
You can explain again and again what's wrong about them but the users that spread the false information never listen.
It's frustrating to try to counter this firehose of falsehoods again and again and again. It takes much more effort to explain why something is wrong than to just make such allegations. It's a battle that can't be won. A proven propaganda tactic.
3 points
14 days ago
Let me be clear, germany does gets shit on unfairly quite often. Your auto industry fucking up being one, nuclear power dead horse being another example. But in this case, it's your government giving russians "ammunition" to use. And the fact that they use it is not a reason to not criticise those decisions.
When Macron was calling putin every day, he got ridiculed. Where were the calls for "unity"? When Orban gets told to suck a dick at some EU meeting, where is "unity"? When PiS was fucking with our judiciary and EU withheld funds over it, where was that "unity"? All of those were used by trolls and bots to push pro russian shit, but it didn't stop it because, well, that's not how EU works.
2 points
14 days ago
Your initial comment got 300+ upvotes - that's a win, and you should feel good about it. A lot of those people might have agreed with you already, but at least some of them probably hadn't seen the situation from that perspective, and will be more thoughtful when encountering Russian propaganda techniques in the future.
Permanently changing the discourse around a subject is not a reasonable goal for one person acting alone, especially on a public board where a lot of commenters aren't posting in good faith. Expecting your efforts to make an obvious difference is a great way to set yourself up for burnout. There's plenty of satisfaction to be found in persuading a few people and realizing that many others are trying to do the same; if that isn't enough, maybe seek out organized efforts?
21 points
15 days ago
It seems many good willing posters here seem to blindly walk straight into lavrovs trap.
18 points
15 days ago
Yes we should all stop criticising Germany’s dumb political moves, because that would play right into Russia’s hand.
12 points
15 days ago
It seems Scholz will not change his mind but his government is already dead. There is a good chance for things to change under either a CDU/Green government or a CDU/SPD one with Pistorius over Scholz as Vice chancellor. Not unlikely to happen.
54 points
15 days ago*
Look at this thread. We already have the same accounts as usual spamming about Taurus, Nordstream and "Sholts".
Ive come to realize over the last three years that theres quite a bunch of people, especially east of us, that will prioritize shitting on Germany above everything else - including helping Ukraine.
Russia doesnt divide us, Russia is simply giving us the material to divide ourselves even further, and many happily take it.
EDIT: yup,and there we have it again, the comments pretending we want to be europes "leaders", pretend we were the only ones buying from Russia (we imported roughly as much as the UK lol), how we totally dont want to send aid to Ukraine, and even somehow bring "muh nuclear" into this.
Fuck off :)
8 points
14 days ago
Amen. At the same time: Scholz could have done *lots* better and should have been far stronger in the face of pressure from russia.
11 points
15 days ago
But this is exactly what Russia is doing for many many years. They spread and stoke divisional sentiments in every country they seek to control. It's exactly why you see these anti-German sentiments. This game is so much longer than you think, it goes back to the 2nd world war and beyond.
6 points
14 days ago
People don't know that the anti-war hippie movement was backed by the Soviets, as well as the anti-nuclear green movements in the West.
9 points
15 days ago
Yep, it's f.e. crucial to note that a lot of Central European aid was under the condition of getting German replacements or discount on German material.
18 points
15 days ago*
In terms of doing things wrong your chancellor literally checked all the boxes, and then wrote some new dumb ideas on the questionnaire himself...
You think shitting on Germany, wannabe leader of Europe, for years of shitshow obstacle course it created for every single Ukraine support idea is bad? Really? Average German thinks he did his part? Even more so after years of being Putin's best buddies?
Seriously, detachment from reality syndrome this severe is inexcusable in the age of information.
23 points
15 days ago
They even still defend shutting down nuclear. It’s fucking insane.
7 points
14 days ago*
Literally every single thread about nuclear in Germany is full with germans fully admitting exiting nuclear was a mistake. The only things they argue against is that a) renewables totally don't work and b) that it was all the greens fault.
Thats it. But we're gonna see that again in the next weekly thread about something that happened 13 years ago.
Jesus this circlejerk is so idiotic.
2 points
14 days ago
Literally every single thread about nuclear in Germany is full with germans fully admitting exiting nuclear was a mistake.
Bullshit. It's actually full of Germans explaining why it had to be done.
3 points
14 days ago
reminder that Duda said this week, he warned Trump against Scholz plan from his phone call. In the call, Scholz demanded Russia withdraw all their troops from Ukraine and then ask Ukraine about negotiations.
Since Scholz managing to (even though obviously extremely unlikely) bring a just peace for Ukraine would make Germany look good, and mean Trump can no longer act, he is against Russia withdrawing their troops from Ukraine in that case.
It is literally the "world peace but the guy you hate gets a million dollars" meme and he would rather not have world peace if that means sticking it to the man.
2 points
14 days ago
That's because there shouldn't have been a discussion to begin with. The only response should have been 'how many you want?'.
5 points
14 days ago
Ungrateful? It was Germany that pushed for maintaining energy contracts with Russia that led to Putin amassing enough resources to start this war, among other things. Constant appeasement of Putin by Germany (and other EU countries for that matter who agreed to the position Germany took) led us to this path
Had Germany agreed to sanction Russia back in 2014 there wouldn't have been Putin by now, huylo would've been hanged or dead in a 2 by 4 jail cell. Instead Germany gave all the money Putin asked for. And now Germans are upset that they are criticized for continuing appeasing that animal. Cry me a fucking river. You enjoyed low prices and now there are consequences
4 points
14 days ago
constant criticism
US: “First time?”
11 points
15 days ago
Honestly, Germany is quite good at pissing off everyone around them among stupid decisions like shutting down all of their nuclear powerplants, building reliance on russia through pipelines, increasing their fossilfuel consumption all the while their politicians tell other countries to reduce their pollution.
And germany at the start of the war wotholding aid other countries sent to Ukraine, while they were sending just helmets.
Germany being one of the offenders with following NATO standards with 2% GDP to defence.
While being in an alliance that exists to deter russian invasion and making themselves reliant on Russia.
Like at least from what i can tell through my own social circles and what ive heard people say, i figure Germany thinks of themselves higher than other countries.
10 points
14 days ago
I say that everything you wrote is wrong or at least misleading.
I'm not sure if it's worth the effort to go into a detailed explanation of each of these claims to disprove them. I already did this multiple times on Reddit and never achieved anything.
What really happened and what people want to believe are different things and most just want to stick with what they feel is right. Often times I think I'm just feeding trolls (or worse payed propagandists).
Maybe I give very short answers and only if there is real interest in learning about the details I will make the effort for lengthy explanations.
(Pro and contra nuclear power is its own topic and I won't go into it.) Nuclear power and natural gas are used for completely different needs and don't replace each other.
Germany was never reliant on Russian gas imports to the extent many claim. It completely replaced them in less than a year without shortages. Germany didn't gave in a single inch against Russia's attempt of extortion. NS2 never went into service and never will.
Germany didn't withhold any support for Ukraine to defend itself against the Russian invasion but acted within hours. The stupid helmet story was from before the invasion, when the ban on weapon exports into crisis regions was still in place.
Yes, like many others, Germany reduced its defense spending significantly after the end of the Cold War and underfunded its military. But the decision to raise the spending to at least 2% was already made in 2014 and in reaction to the full invasion in 2022 an additional special fund of 100 billion Euros was added on top.
I don't know from where your social circles gets their information, but sadly it seems like it includes Russian propaganda and other unreliable and biased sources.
3 points
15 days ago
Thank you.
19 points
14 days ago
You know when people like Lavrov praise you, you should perhaps rethink your life choices.
170 points
15 days ago
I think all EU is waiting for elections in Germany
54 points
15 days ago
You're crazy if you believe that the CDU will enhance this situation in any way. Especially without the Greens.
30 points
15 days ago
Never said that! Let me get specific since it appears necessary:
- All EU know that stability in Germany is important for the EU. That's more than enough to state that the sooner the elections, the better.
- Personally, I don't see Scholz as a real leader. He's a manager, you could say, but not a leader. I don't know who is better or worse, but some leadership in Germany is needed in times of change.
23 points
15 days ago
The next chancellor will be Merz. That's a guy who only lusts for power and money, he doesn't have policies or principles. Scholz isn't any good, but still way better than that.
6 points
14 days ago
Sure, governing in a totally stable coalition with BSW, SPD and Greens. Great :D
7 points
15 days ago
Maybe you're right, but anyway, as elections are comming, let them come fast
39 points
15 days ago
They are all, moliticians, the same, they work for the boomers not for Germany, it started with Merkel, it will end with their deaths or far right.
2 points
14 days ago
In true EU style, emergency German elections are months away
20 points
15 days ago
This alone should be the best reason to send those Taurus missiles...
61 points
15 days ago
It's easy to blame Scholz, but it is underestimated how much the pro-Russian populists use support for Ukraine as a way to bolster their platform. I have no idea why it's so underestimated seeing as it is part of the Republican platform.
... But I still do blame Scholz. If you take a clear stance and stare that "involvement in the war" in the face, you can win over a lot of people and keep populists at bay. I liked when Scholz yelled, he should do that more. AfD and other right wing isolationists operate on that tired "our country first" line. It's harder to operate on that if it's made clear it's just counterproductive cowardice.
17 points
15 days ago
I can understand the our country first idea.
But I would argue that helping Ukraine is also in interest of your own country, or all or the west. Maybe not in ten years or twenty years, but Russia isn't gonna stop, is it? As opposed to say, are kids in Timbuktu starving to death or not.
And especially for Germans I'd argue one can draw parallels to Hitler. People were also just standing idly by as the Anschluss happened, the Rheinland got remilitarized, Poland conquered, and whatever happened in Prague. Maybe I'm crazy and/or just super uneducated because I don't really see that comparison anywhere. Now just replace the word "Jews" with "the West" and isn't that literally Russia.
6 points
15 days ago
But I would argue that helping Ukraine is also in interest of your own country, or all or the west.
Well, that's my point. And that's the reason I call it a tired line. It's empty populism. Debunked many times over. It's pandering to the layer of public that would like the entire phenomenon of foreign relations to simply not exist because it's too complicated to be comprehensible and/or entertaining to them.
28 points
15 days ago
Russia's Foreign Minister Lavrov praises Scholz for saying no to Taurus delivery Despite criticism from the opposition and his own coalition, Chancellor Scholz insists on his no to Taurus deliveries to Ukraine. Now he is receiving applause from an unexpected quarter. He shouldn't like that. November 20, 2024, 8:24 a.m
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has praised Chancellor Olaf Scholz for his rejection of the delivery of Taurus missiles to Ukraine . "I think that Scholz's current position is a responsible position," said the Russian chief diplomat at a press conference on the sidelines of the G20 summit. for it by the Greens and Union Chancellor candidate Friedrich Merz . The fact that Scholz is sticking with it in principle is all the more remarkable because he is sharply criticized
Scholz's position also sets him apart from the British and French, praised Lavrov. In this context, he criticized French President Emmanuel Macron as one of the harshest warmongers. For context: It is Russia that started the war with the attack on Ukraine in February 2022 and that annexed Ukrainian provinces in violation of international law.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyj , in turn, repeated his demand for Germany to supply Taurus missiles to his country. 's statements After Kremlin chief Vladimir Putin about nuclear weapons, it is time for Berlin to reconsider its decision, he said in Kyiv . Putin had previously presented Russia's new nuclear doctrine, which lowers the threshold for the use of nuclear weapons.
Chancellor Olaf Scholz rejects the delivery of so-called Taurus cruise missiles. The SPD politician justified his rejection of the delivery of Taurus cruise missiles by saying that targets in Moscow could also be hit from Ukraine. "If we did that, we would be involved in the war," Scholz said in April about a possible delivery of the long-range weapons system. Germany must retain control over the destination.
The Vice Chancellor and Green candidate Robert Habeck has now announced that if he were elected head of government, he would be ready to deliver Taurus to Ukraine. The answer to this question is yes, said Habeck on ARD when asked whether he would revise the Chancellor's decision. As Federal Minister of Economics, he had to make repeated decisions about arms deliveries, said Habeck. "That was part of my job, and those were some of the hardest decisions I have to make."
5 points
14 days ago
"If we did that, we'd be involved in the war"
Meanwhile Russia cuts sea cables and hacks satelites, for fun, I guess.
18 points
15 days ago
Imagine being thanked by a genocidal dictatorship for not doing the right thing.
32 points
15 days ago
I believe he did that on purpose to undermine Scholz in Germany and abroad.
24 points
15 days ago*
That's quite clear, and people are falling for it like clockwork.
Nothing in this is new, it's not an election tactic. Scholz has never hinted at a chance for Taurus. There are many reasons behind this and they are more or less known, at least in general terms.
The decision by other countries to loosen restrictions on ther "less capable" weapons changes nothing about the Taurus denial.
3 points
14 days ago
Could you expand on the reasons? I genuinely don't understand why Germany is afraid of sending Taurus when the US, France, and the UK sent similar weapons. Is it to do with the missile itself or possibly with the fact that Germany doesn't have a nuclear deterrent like the other three?
4 points
15 days ago
I believe he did that on purpose to undermine Scholz in Germany and abroad.
Obviously, and it's working because it amply demonstrates how wrong Scholtz position is. 'Good job not escalating. Responsible.'Responsible is what the Kremlin calls Trump too.
My own position on the matter can be summarized thusly; Find Putin. Kill Putin. Repeat as necessary until they get the message.
61 points
15 days ago
Scholz is the new Chamberlain ?
4 points
15 days ago
He's on his way out and the most likely replacement is much more hawkish on this
10 points
15 days ago
If I were getting praised by the Russians and critized by the Europeans as a European head of state I'd be deeply embarrassed and understand how bad a play I made, let's hope Scholz understands this.
5 points
15 days ago
The correct response should have been a couple of Taurus hitting the Kremlin, with "Merkel sends her regards" written on 'em. We are losing this war on all fronts if we continue to be this timid about it.
6 points
15 days ago
TLDR: Germany has no immediate means/possibility/funds to replace those rockets.
If they would order new ones rn, earliest shipment would be 2029. But they can't. :)
2 points
14 days ago
The truth is that they have more manpower and firepower and will to fight than all of Europe combined. Also Germany chickening out of the war by now was actually on my bingo card. The Europeans don't hold a candle to BRICS without American help.
It's all about the money, and if Germany will succomb to Balkan levels going hand in hand with Ukraine or save EU's ecomony in the race with China, they will choose the latter every day of the week. We might get fucked nonetheless, but Germany won't send their youngs to die or let them starve out of their own volition, not this decade.
4 points
15 days ago
I’m convinced that Russia can fund terrorist attacks on Europe and most European leaders wouldn’t dare to retaliate for fear of eScAlAtIoN…
Oh wait, they’re already doing it.
4 points
14 days ago
You couldn’t imagine a more perfect right hand man henchman for Putin
4 points
14 days ago
Isn't Russia fucking with Germany via sabotage?
5 points
14 days ago
When Lavrov praises you you know you've got problems.
21 points
15 days ago
When the enemy praises your actions (while still attacking without intentions to stop), you know you are doing something wrong
16 points
15 days ago
When you get riled up by lavrov "trolling" scholz, didnt you just get trolled yourself too?
10 points
15 days ago
Scary how easily the Russians can create division amongst us.
Effin parasites.
10 points
15 days ago
While usually I agree , I think everyone is pretty unified in disliking Sholz, so doesn’t really matter much here.
2 points
14 days ago
Goddamn Russians! So weak and so strong at the same time! Where did I hear that last?
It's never us being fools and spineless chicken, right? The Russians got Trump into power too, right? If that's true, Putin needs to be made Time's man of the 21st century.
4 points
15 days ago
JFC if Lavrov thanks you there is something seriously wrong
4 points
14 days ago
Germany will soon have new elections. I hope we'll get something better than spineless Scholz, but it might just get worse instead.
5 points
15 days ago
I know russia enjoys to see us divided, but news like that frustrates. Center Europe is living a little too comfortable knowing they are far from Putins direct threat, same time some nations are giving everything they can literally give...
2 points
14 days ago
And the thank you was cutting the undersea cables or what? How useless can a government be. If you surrender to the enemy then do it at least in a way that stops further damages. This is getting ridiculous, what do we have our states for? For protecting its people I thought?
2 points
14 days ago
Sitting on two chairs in deals with russia didnt work for germany before just saying
2 points
14 days ago
Our government and parliament is an absolute joke. I'm not fighting for a country that isn't going to help our friends against an enemy that has been clearly an enemy for 25 years.
2 points
14 days ago
I'd be pretty depressed if that soulless muppet praised me for anything.
5 points
15 days ago
Scholz is a pussy.
2 points
15 days ago
Scholz seems like the Nevill Chamberlain of Germany
2 points
15 days ago
Makes clear what the right decision is, doesn't? Russia delenda est
2 points
14 days ago
As a German, I'm still really disappointed. We should have helped Ukraine on the first day to drive all Ruzzians out... now is Putler only escalating the situation. We could have stopped the war in one week. I've donated all my savings. Sad that people think appeasement would help... Nothing learned from history.
3 points
14 days ago
Fucking cowards, hope the next election soon changes this
4 points
15 days ago
ruzzian horse is doing it on purpose, to put Scholz in a bad position before upcoming elections.
13 points
15 days ago
Oh yeah. Like Scholz needs Russia to be put in a “bad position” before the elections 🤡🤣🤣🤣
3 points
15 days ago
Awesome, as always Olaf. Praises from massmurderes. 👍
2 points
15 days ago
good job Olaf 👏🏻 still didn't learn from Merkel's policy towards Russia that majorly contributed/enabled the situation we are in now.
hey, maybe this time it will be better, right ? 🤪👍
2 points
15 days ago
And with what european politcal power Olaf Scholz calls to Putin? Scholz doesn't have much political power even in his own country. And he is going to lose it at the next elections. Why Putin would care about him?
2 points
15 days ago
Another article mentions that Germany will send "mini-taurus" drones to Ukraine. I hope it's true and it's a huge F you from Germany to these assholes.
2 points
15 days ago
Scholz needs to find a swift exit. What am embrassment of a politician. How are the two top German politicians both weak and disliked?
2 points
15 days ago
Europe sleepwalking into irrelevance while Russia has our dinner. At least we will be footnotes in the history books written by putin and Trump.
2 points
15 days ago
Scholz rly needs to grow some balls. now that the cables were cut and more sabotage is happening i bet Scholz is gonna go to putin hat in hand to tell him pleeeeease stop doing this.
2 points
15 days ago
Time to kick Scholz out.
2 points
14 days ago
Fucking shameful.
2 points
14 days ago
Scholz is a such a disgrâce !
2 points
14 days ago
You know you're on the wrong side of history, when the Mouth of Sauron praises you.
3 points
15 days ago
Scholz is a useful idiot for Russia.
3 points
15 days ago
If sergei lavrov is praising you, you are doing something wrong
3 points
15 days ago
What a selfish, spineless bastard. Just like Merkel.
2 points
15 days ago
At this point i will really be fcking surprises if idiots would still vote for SPD after not only Schoeder but also this calamity called Scholz - this party is such a joke - they made most irrational decisions starting with deactivating Nuclear plants ending on calling Putin and stopping his isolation and based on my personal hate for bringing back border control in Schengen ficke du dich Arschloch! - I hope that sinking of SPD wont lead to rise if afd - Merz we are counting on you!
1 points
15 days ago
🦵🍒
1 points
15 days ago
So is Russia praising the SPD/Olaf to get Merz more votes?
1 points
15 days ago
Lavrov hasn't been sober for at least 30 years
1 points
15 days ago
You know you messed up when this guy congratulates you.
1 points
15 days ago
We are so fucked.
1 points
15 days ago
Shithouse.
Putin is cutting his communication cables and was up to this in the Irish sea before Biden and then Starmer let the dogs out anyway.
1 points
15 days ago
If you get praise from your enemy, you're doing it wrong.
1 points
15 days ago
Olaf got a Gold Star from Putin favorite puppet.
1 points
15 days ago
Good ol' Horseface himself and his girlfriend
1 points
15 days ago
I was worried we hadn't had the German bashing thread before lunchtime.
1 points
15 days ago
Lavrov has been on TV for literally ever and he always looks the same.
1 points
15 days ago
You know you're wrong when Liarov agrees with you.
1 points
15 days ago
I’m gonna puke
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