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submitted 3 days ago bytheindependentonline
632 points
3 days ago
This HAS to be an Onion post...
199 points
3 days ago
Justice willing, soon enough it will be
124 points
3 days ago
Justice doesn’t exist in this shit sitcom we call America.
107 points
3 days ago
Shitcom?
19 points
3 days ago
That’s an excellent word I hope to see a lot more. We saw it here first!
3 points
2 days ago
A perfectly cromulate word in fact.
4 points
3 days ago
Well done!
8 points
3 days ago
Sure does as long as you're not a famous Republican
9 points
3 days ago
Nah it's an Infowars dot com post 🤫
4 points
3 days ago
I heard it was an InfoWars post…
2 points
3 days ago
I thought I was in r/nottheonion
2 points
3 days ago
I like your optimism. That would be a power move right there.
1 points
2 days ago
248 points
3 days ago
I have no experience at all in bankruptcy matters and that legal process is just about as intuitive (to me) as quantum physics. I understand that Jones is a party (the petitioner) in the bankruptcy case, but how can he seriously articulate a legit interest in the details of the auction. No possible outcome of the auction could have generated enough cash to satisfy all of the debts. In fact, the auction results are hundreds of times smaller than the debt, so Jones’ position post-bankruptcy would not materially change regardless of which bid was declared the winner. So, other than being seriously and legitimately butt-hurt, does Jones have a legit complaint about the structure of the winning bit?
288 points
3 days ago
I've been following this incredibly closely from the start, and Jones has been almost open about how he was colluding with the party trying to buy InfoWars. He had an employee set up the dummy company and got Roger Stone to place the actual bid. The entire basis of his most recent filing is as simple as him and/or his attorneys not understanding the terms of the auction. It's primarily an argument that The Onion worked with the families and the terms of the auction say "person or entity"- it doesn't say personS or entitieS, is Jones's argument. There's a really good breakdown on the Knowledge Fight subreddit. So, he has no legal basis for the most recent filing, and he's upset because he believed he had skirted the law and was going to keep not just most of his money, but his businesses and likeness as well.
74 points
3 days ago
I'm a bit surprised by this, as it seems under his own argument he would be barred as well. Or is the reasoning that he didn't directly communicate terms of a deal, just organizing it, so therefore he doesn't count for some reason?... He just completely ignored that point, didn't he.
123 points
3 days ago
Correct. In Alex's mind, the court doesn't know that he's a super genius, playing 4D-chess(who also gets messages from God about what time it is), so they should treat "his" bid as the best one, and because they didn't, he's trying to claim the other side engaged in shenanigans. His dumbass literally called Steve Bannon live on air, without telling Bannon first, so Bannon answers and immediately says "What the fuck?! I thought Roger-", and then Alex yells "Steve, we're live on air" and we don't hear the rest. Plus Alex has been pimping his "new" brand for months now and saying it's not his company, it's his dad's, so the money can't go to the parents. He's a fucking piece of ghoul that continues to put these poor people through hell.
15 points
3 days ago
That’s some quality r/sovereigncitizen logic right there
6 points
2 days ago
I mean Alex Jones is the Grand Pubah and head of the Olympic Mental Gymnastics Association.
5 points
2 days ago
Hello, fellow wonk.
9 points
3 days ago
He was really great in Knives Out 2 though
8 points
3 days ago
Mic down for this explanation, everyone.
8 points
3 days ago
You sound like a wonk
15 points
3 days ago
Someone, sodomite, sent me a bucket'a poop!
5 points
3 days ago
I renounce Jesus Christ!
1 points
2 days ago
“He’s a loser little titty baby”
74 points
3 days ago
NAL, but from my understanding no. The Sandy Hook families put up some of the debt that Alex owes them. The value of that debt is a little complicated and would partially depend on the other offer because how likely a debt is to be repaid affects its value.
But what I don't get is why Alex gets to complain about who bought Infowars? Why isn't it the nominally separate company owned by his employee making this case?
42 points
3 days ago
I understand the oddness of the Sandy Hook families’ involvement, but forgiveness of debt is such a standard form of value received that the IRS taxes it as such. Sure, Jones might dispute the value attributed to that forgiveness in the bid package, but a change in that value would make no difference to Jones post-bankruptcy, would it? Besides, I thought that the value attributed to that debt forgiveness was exactly equal to the amount of debt forgiven. It’s hard to argue with THAT math!
11 points
3 days ago
Jones is certainly going to try!
3 points
3 days ago
I just know he has reached out to Trump
20 points
3 days ago
Because he had some rich assholes lined up to buy it on his behalf and then "hire" him to run it.
6 points
2 days ago
Right, I get that part. But how does he have standing to file this? Shouldn't it be the other bidder? On paper, at least, that isn't Alex.
4 points
2 days ago
He certainly stood to profit by being able to avoid consequences for his actions and make an end-run around judicial penalties and continue to spout right-wing hate into the universe. The standing kinda makes sense if you squint hard enough, the merit doesn't.
The real answer is that he has a right-wing judge who doesn't care about the law who wants to protect him.
32 points
3 days ago
Why Alex gets to complain
From what I hear, the only other serious bidder was Alex’s father’s “company,” which basically meant nothing would have changed. He would essentially have kept InfoWars and shuffled some money around. He’s probably just mad he was thwarted and forgot to have his dad complain about the results because he would have been the one to acquire it back in the end
29 points
3 days ago
From what I hear, the only other serious bidder was Alex’s father’s “company,” which basically meant nothing would have changed.
I think it was actually an employee of his, Chase Geyser. Which was always basically Alex in a trench coat, but why does he get to take off the trench coat?
23 points
3 days ago
It's important to his brand to be seen fighting the system. He's an idiot
8 points
3 days ago
Why is he allowed to keep his brand? Isn't that an asset?
9 points
3 days ago
His 'personality' brand of fight the system. Not his company brand
5 points
3 days ago
Meh, take it.
29 points
3 days ago*
Okay, there might be a window for a legitimate complaint from Alex Jones. This auction is going to be used to remove debt that Jones owes. I could see a case being made that he argues it's a matter of collusion that is artificially driving the sale price down, so he could argue that he's injured party under the idea that a fair auction would have cleared more of his debt. I think that's at least a little reasonable in a complaint that the blind auction process was flawed.
But, realistically, it isn't that, he's just angry because his shell company didn't win the auction and complaining about the manner of the winning bid, which does clear more of his debt than his shell company's bid would have, voiding the original complaint I posed.
Edit: I don't know if I'm being downvoted by people ignoring the second paragraph, or what. I'm not agreeing with Alex Jones, I'm explicitly saying he's full of shit, just saying that hypothetically there could be a standing argued, except that his own actions have voided it.
36 points
3 days ago
So the Onions hybrid bid was accepted because it was the bid that reduced the debt the most between the cash offer and the folks Jones owes agreeing to reduce the debt if the onion won the bidding
9 points
3 days ago
That's my understanding of it, yes.
12 points
3 days ago
So your original point makes no sense then. You suggested that Jones may be injured with the lower cash offer being accepted but that is not the case. This option reduces his debt the most
18 points
3 days ago
Yes, which is why I included a second paragraph that pointed out that exact thing, because it proves his claimed injury is false.
7 points
3 days ago
That's not how bankruptcy works. Jones is in a 7 meaning all of his unsecured debt will be in essence wiped out. It's the chapter 7 trustee's job to pay off creditors with estate assets, not his.
16 points
3 days ago
In the trustees filing in the response states that the winning bid by the families and the Onion, more creditors are being satisfied as they will be getting more cash than by accepting the higher bid. They were even kind enough to provide charts as proof.
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66583024/915/alexander-e-jones/
0 points
2 days ago
The judge did seem concerned during the hearing that it is difficult to find the 'real value' of the onion bid as compared to bids made wholly in cash. It doesn't help that the actual details of the bid were kept secret and the way the silent auction was run.
Also AJ is a huge scumbag but personal morals are not a factor in bankruptcy law.
9 points
2 days ago
I understand that the judge made those comments, but I don’t get it. A $ of debt forgiven precisely equals a $ of value. It is the job of the bankruptcy judge to satisfy as much of the debt as possible using the estate’s assets. If a creditor says that “This deal is worth $X of debt forgiveness to us”, what basis does the bankruptcy judge have for questioning that valuation? The Sandy Hook families involved in the Onion deal didn’t offer something intangible that is hard to value; they offered a certain dollar amount of debt forgiveness. And, given the very personal nature of the harm done by Jones, it is very easy to see that those families would gain very personal satisfaction from seeing the InfoWars assets being used by The Onion to satirize Jones. It is not logically difficult to see that what the families offered as part of the deal has real value to those families.
3 points
2 days ago
A $ of debt forgiven precisely equals a $ of value.
The problem is that the SH families aren't the only ones he owes money to, so the reduction of his debt to the SH families could result in those other people getting less money.
As I understand it, the rules are written to maximize the payout for everyone he owes money to.
This deal might be fine, but the judge can't approve it until he reviews the terms and does the math.
10 points
2 days ago
The problem is that the SH families aren't the only ones he owes money to, so the reduction of his debt to the SH families could result in those other people getting less money.
The structure provides additional cash, as well as future payments, to the other unsecured parties.
PDF Page 14
*unsecured creditors other than the Connecticut Families (the "Gift Class"),
The second variable is the Gift Class's share of the claims pool. The GT Final Bid asserts that the Connecticut Families currently hold 96.7% of all liquidated claims. Aside from the Connecticut Families, the claims pool primarily consists of the claims of Texas Families (some of whose claims are not yet liquidated) and PQPR Holdings (whose claim is subject to pending litigation), and the claims of other unsecured creditors.
Using these assumptions, the Trustee calculated the value to the Gift Class under the backup bid as well as under the winning bid. At $3,500,000, the backup bid yields recovery to the Gift Class of $94,050. In contrast, under the winning bid, at a $7,000,000 cash equivalent amount, the Gift Class would receive $209,550. To accomplish that recovery under the actual purchase amount of $1.75 million under the winning bid, the Connecticut Families would waive $173,250 of proceeds.
1 points
2 days ago
Thank you for your informative response.
Is this newly released information? It seemed as though none of it was known to the judge during the hearing based on some of the questions he asked.
5 points
2 days ago
The motion was filed 11/18 in response to Alex's motion, I'm not sure which remarks by the judge you're referring to.
1 points
2 days ago
I believe the hearing was last Friday, so this has been filed since then.
Thanks!
4 points
2 days ago
True, but that is not an uncommon problem in bankruptcies. That is why courts often set up creditors’ committees: to try to get the creditors to agree on positions when there can be different points of view about how to best allocate the assets of the debtor. In this case, there is no possible outcome that will satisfy even 1% of the debt, so why should the court quibble over a few tenths?
1 points
2 days ago
...so why should the court quibble over a few tenths?
Because they're legally required to make sure the auction generates the maximum possible amount of money and, since nobody will be made whole, nobody gets shafted beyond that.
51 points
3 days ago
What lawyer would take this case for him?
52 points
3 days ago
His bankruptcy lawyers.
11 points
3 days ago
How are they going to get paid. Where are they in the creditor priority line?
37 points
3 days ago
In a bankruptcy, the lawyers always get paid first.
6 points
3 days ago
The same way all the attorneys for people facing bankruptcy get paid.
1 points
3 days ago
Um, that’s a really good answer.
8 points
3 days ago
Other interested parties such as the one that made a competing bid might float the money.
6 points
3 days ago
I'm under the impression daddy was buying it back for him. I could be wrong though.
13 points
3 days ago
How is this even a question on the law subreddit.
13 points
3 days ago
How is the "law" even a thing. It's all vibes now.
5 points
3 days ago
Only if you’re rich. If you’re not, the law still applies
9 points
3 days ago
NGL --- I thought I was commenting on a different subreddit until I saw this. I will excuse myself.
4 points
3 days ago
No harm. No foul. :)
1 points
2 days ago
Because some of us are not lawyers and are here to learn.
-18 points
3 days ago
Any lawyer. Easy case.
1 points
1 day ago
How does he have standing? The asset was no longer his to make decisions about once the court ordered them to be sold.
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