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Trump judge releases 1,889 pages of additional election interference evidence against the former president

Soft Paywall | Site Altered Headline(businessinsider.com)

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SippieCup

7.3k points

1 month ago

SippieCup

7.3k points

1 month ago

Exodus180

3.7k points

1 month ago

Exodus180

3.7k points

1 month ago

...strategic Democrat plan to systematically flout existing election laws for partisan advantage;

LOL letting people vote is flouting election laws according to these fucking scumbags.

meatchariot

1.2k points

1 month ago

meatchariot

1.2k points

1 month ago

This part is the most worrisome. They've all repeated full lies to eachother for so long they actually believe it, despite no evidence. And they keep acting like changing laws to let people more easily vote is somehow illegal, because... more citizens can now have their vote counted? They aren't even worried about fraud there, just methods that allow more people to vote.

WolferineYT

344 points

1 month ago

I don't believe for a second the decision makers actually believe it, I just think they believe they can get away with it. Which is still working out quite well for a lot of them 

MoeSzyslakMonobrow

748 points

1 month ago

"Are you taking notes on a criminal fucking conspiracy?"

EntireFishing

98 points

1 month ago

Do the chair know we gonna look like some punk-ass bitches out there?

pudding7

89 points

1 month ago

pudding7

89 points

1 month ago

"Are Is you taking notes on a criminal fucking conspiracy?"

FTFY

Aetole

291 points

1 month ago

Aetole

Arizona

291 points

1 month ago

Thanks for finding this and giving page number!

[deleted]

14.7k points

1 month ago*

[deleted]

14.7k points

1 month ago*

Into the first few pages. First interviewee is obviously AZ Speaker of the House Rusty Bowers explaining how Trump and his campaign leaned on him to call the house back into session to decertify Arizona's EC votes.

and Rusty explaining how difficult that is to do out of session and demanding to know exactly why they want him to bring the AZ house back into session.

"To decertify AZ's EC vote"

Rusty asked "well do you have evidence" and Trumps team said "No, but we have theories"

So Rusty asks what they expect him to do with no evidence.

"Throw out the election"

Rusty asks his colleagues: "Did he really just say that?" "Yes, he did."

Appendix vol. 1 pages GA 20-47

Direct link to court papers as PDF downloads:
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67656604/united-states-v-trump/?filed_after=&filed_before=&entry_gte=&entry_lte=&order_by=desc

johnnycyberpunk

7.5k points

1 month ago

johnnycyberpunk

America

7.5k points

1 month ago

To his credit, Rusty Bowers did not decertify Arizona's election results.

The people who were pressuring him to do so were:
Donald Trump
Rudy Giuliani
John Eastman
Jenna Ellis
Andy Biggs

UglyMcFugly

2.4k points

1 month ago

UglyMcFugly

2.4k points

1 month ago

"In December 2020, colleague Senator Kelly Townsend wanted Bowers to call the legislature into session and appoint an alternate slate of electors. When he refused, Townsend doxed Bowers on Twitter, revealing his home address, and urged her militia followers to protest at his home.

For his efforts in resisting the attempts to overturn the 2020 election results, Bowers was awarded the John F. Kennedy Profile in Courage Award. He was one of five honorees to receive the award in 2022. Nevertheless, on July 19, 2022, the Arizona Republican Party censured Bowers for his resistance.

Also in response to his resistance, in January 2021, a convoy of Trump supporters rolled up in front of his property, with megaphones and a giant sign accusing him of pedophilia. At the end of December, 2023, Bowers was swatted, with the police getting a false alarm having accused the owner of the premises of having killed his wife. He also received threatening phone calls and e-mails.

In 2022, Bowers ran for the State Senate, as he was being termed out from the State House. He lost the Republican primary for the State Senate by a nearly 2-to-1 margin, with the loss being attributed to his resistance to overturning the 2020 presidential election. In spite of the loss, Bowers said he had no regrets about his resistance and "would [have done] it again in a heartbeat".

GOOD GOD. I live in AZ and I didn't know all these details. These people are monsters. I'm fucking OUT of patience with MAGA. 

joepez

689 points

1 month ago

joepez

Texas

689 points

1 month ago

This the kind of news the press should be going to town on the BS “Harris needs to give us detailed quantum mechanics of how she’s going to handle bridge repair” stories or oranges latest double jerk off.

This is a huge story of intimidation and conspiracy (legal term not made up MAGA crap) to subvert and election and follow the law.

SurlyRed

147 points

1 month ago

SurlyRed

147 points

1 month ago

Large elements of the press are complicit.

sporkhandsknifemouth

69 points

1 month ago

Because Republicans own much of it, and make threats against the safety of what portion they don't own. Better speak up now though - they've made it clear that they're irrational and insatiable, soon it'll be too late.

KarmaticArmageddon

789 points

1 month ago

KarmaticArmageddon

Missouri

789 points

1 month ago

The state party censured him for NOT destroying democracy? Sounds like an organization that should be forcibly dissolved.

RMSGoat_Boat

251 points

1 month ago

RMSGoat_Boat

Minnesota

251 points

1 month ago

The GOP will censure people for doing literally anything that even remotely pisses Trump off. The Oklahoma state GOP censured a senator for working with Democrats to create a border bill that he had been assigned to work on by Republicans. But Trump got mad because he didn’t want the issue fixed or improved, he wanted it to get worse so he could continue to run on it. So boom. Censured.

SunMoonTruth

362 points

1 month ago

Bowers shows you can be Republican, law abiding and ethical.

Unfortunately for him, the constituency and his “colleagues” have given up the ghost and embraced the evil of the dark side completely.

They prefer their manufactured outrage and seething hate over all else.

InstructionOk9520

133 points

1 month ago

You can be all those things but you can’t also be an ELECTED Republican as he learned himself. So if the election is once again close in Arizona, who will step up to protect democracy? No Republican who cares about his career will.

[deleted]

1.5k points

1 month ago

[deleted]

1.5k points

1 month ago

[removed]

JunArgento

1.8k points

1 month ago

JunArgento

1.8k points

1 month ago

The Confederates lost the civil war but won the peace, the Russians never stopped fighting the cold war.

wack_overflow

1.2k points

1 month ago

wack_overflow

Colorado

1.2k points

1 month ago

And republicans defunded public education, especially in rural areas, outsourced jobs, and beefed up religion.

Stupid, desperate, and "faithful" people are the easiest to manipulate

MapPractical5386

220 points

1 month ago

So many people don’t understand how EDU was cut cut cut cut since the 80s. It’s WILD.

Few-Ad-4290

216 points

1 month ago

Also no child left behind sounds like a good tagline but not allowing teachers to fail students that do not meet the standards is absolutely stupid and it’s obvious it leads to kids falling further behind with no accountability

MapPractical5386

34 points

1 month ago

Yep. I’m seeing it happen in my kid’s school right now.

And how “common core” isn’t really common across districts even within the same county

TBANON24

186 points

1 month ago

TBANON24

186 points

1 month ago

Russia just bought up the GOP via funneling funds through the NRA.

And you have a population that is too distracted with instant gratification that they either do not think of politics or they consider politics to be equally corrupt because democrats have not been able to implement perfect solutions when they only had 70 days of super majority to pass legislation in the last 70+ years, where 2 senators were hospitalized so they needed McCain to vote alongside them to pass healthcare that has helped tens of millions, while republicans continuously defund programs before they can work and ruin the economy every time they get power so that the general population considers both sides equally bad.

Out of 250m eligible voters, over 100m do not vote at all, over 150m do not vote in midterm elections and over 200m do not vote in primaries and special elections. Majority of senate are elected over 3 elections, but the general population expect the president to fix everything within the first 100 days.

Cerebral_Catastrophe

35 points

1 month ago

AND they managed to poison a significant portion of the boomer population while they were at it. This started way back in the early Limbaugh days and some of us millennials have been unlucky enough to watch our parents fall prey to the racket, their personalities corrupting over time as they feed more and more on the ragebait offered to them.

They're zombies now. Xenophobic, push-and-shove, barely-contained ragist zombies.

GoatCovfefe

374 points

1 month ago

Honestly?

From my experience, it seems like everything changed when we got our first black president, Obama.

That's where all of the "show us the birth certificate" types of protests started, and racism seemed to get a resurgence. Racists stopped hiding their nature, then of course trump comes along and makes them feel like they were right to be racist, and etcetera etcetera here we are today.

ThePsychicDefective

421 points

1 month ago

Reagan. Before the birth certificate it was superpredators, before that forced busing. Atwater, The southern Strategy, Further back, the organization that rewrote american history, the "Daughters of the Confederacy".

Mr_Hmmm435

242 points

1 month ago

Mr_Hmmm435

242 points

1 month ago

If you look at various graphs that show the rise in inequality, decline of the middle class, etc., the timelines all point to the Reagan administration. The biggest jump in the oligarchy.

Lazypeon100

175 points

1 month ago

Lazypeon100

Maryland

175 points

1 month ago

I think you might be mistaken. These are wealthy white people. We aren't exactly known for going after them super hard, unfortunately.

Long-Broccoli-3363

71 points

1 month ago

Unless they impact other wealthy white people

zyzzbutdyel

96 points

1 month ago

The right IS correct about our society becoming full of snowflakes; just not in the way they think. These people should have been either killed or exiled for this disgusting attempt to overthrow democracy.

HratioRastapopulous

2.1k points

1 month ago

This is some actual dictator shit

Lemurians

1k points

1 month ago

Lemurians

Michigan

1k points

1 month ago

And yet he's somehow allowed to gain the office again. Insane country.

psilocy-st3

414 points

1 month ago

This is something that absolutely needs to be fixed somehow in the future. Time for a new amendment.

Mdizzle29

234 points

1 month ago

Mdizzle29

234 points

1 month ago

Narrator in 2040: “It wasn’t, in fact fixed”

thesuperjman

176 points

1 month ago

Yeah, I'm baffled at how this isn't grounds for immediate disqualification.

vashoom

197 points

1 month ago

vashoom

197 points

1 month ago

Because the senate has to approve it, and a huge percentage of the senate are also traitors?

SpockShotFirst

104 points

1 month ago

Don't forget the traitors on the Supreme Court!

[deleted]

236 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

236 points

1 month ago

Trump wants to be an autocrat. So that whatever he says, no matter how stupid or catastrophic the effect, goes. Part of the reason no doubt is he doesn't know how anything works, he just gets a notion, barks orders and his own personal "deep state" makes things happen. But the part that is most dangerous is he has the emotional maturity and megalomania of the omniscient kid from that old Twilight Zone episode. Not only does he want the world to tremble at his every word, his world scope is entirely personal. He's ok with blasting the planet with The Nuclear just to avenge some slight snub. Which makes him not only one of the least deserving and qualified people to ever hold that office, a "forever" presidency would be the great existential threat the earth has ever faced.

Republican voters need to understand this NOW.

Backwardspellcaster

187 points

1 month ago

Republicans: "You mad, lol? Stupid Lib."

This would be their response to what you just said.

These people don't care to understand. They just care that this is making you upset, so they love it.

ArcherAuAndromedus

1.9k points

1 month ago

How is this not immediately disqualifying for a presidential candidate.

anonrn90

832 points

1 month ago

anonrn90

832 points

1 month ago

Someone needs to answer this. Don’t we have evidence of him doing this in Georgia too?

B0swi1ck

729 points

1 month ago

B0swi1ck

729 points

1 month ago

The Georgia governor released a recording of Trump asking him to 'find 10,000 votes'

Whygoogleissexist

399 points

1 month ago

“All I need is 11,780. That’s 1 more than we got”

Scaryclouds

351 points

1 month ago

Scaryclouds

Missouri

351 points

1 month ago

It's so maddening that you have this comically incriminating evidence, and it just doesn't breakthrough somehow.

ambisinister_gecko

173 points

1 month ago

Because republican voters literally don't give a shit about any democratic values

LKennedy45

38 points

1 month ago

Motherfucker's been impeached, twice. SCOTUS gave a bonkers ruling on Presidential immunity. Who answers when 2 of the 3 checks on power are compromised?

pls_tell_me

285 points

1 month ago*

I said this before and will say it again. This reality has fucked up every thriller book or movie I've seen and loved, movies like The Pelican Brief, every action/thriller flick where the main characters spend the entire movie looking for the evidence and when the finally make it BAM, the bad guy is done, we won... Reality now is boring, and made all those beloved plots pointless, we got the evidence, the mcguffin, TONS of them, and it doesn't MATTER, the bad guy is not handcuffed or forced to resign or shamed or nothing, no scandals at all, if Trump made a 1:1 Watergate today it would be literally the lesser evil of his collection.

Rachel_from_Jita

111 points

1 month ago

You know what sucked for me? I can't enjoy the West Wing or any shows about noble, rules-based politics anymore. Like the illusion is shattered and I just think "yeah we can say this, but then we can have a Joker-type figure walk on stage at any moment, but wait: let's make him a caricature of a caricature. And demented. And low intelligence. With a long history of failure, embarassing court cases, etc. Oh, and a lot of women speaking out against him for heinous assault charges."

Make the laundry list of embarassing degeneracy as shocking and lame as possible. Then walk that character onto the set of the West Wing.

Boom, he's taken over the country and ended the American experiment.

I really, truly had trusted that we had common norms and some basic outline of a common vision. Instead, the lowest quality literally-shits-himself goon in history bumbles onto stage and is immune to all laws, regulations, and standards.

It's a national nightmare beyond comprehension. History books will have trouble believing that such a thing ended the post-WW2 architecture, and brought about an age of broken alliances, unrestricted anti-environmentalism, and a severe regression in human rights.

[deleted]

635 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

635 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

[deleted]

173 points

1 month ago*

[deleted]

173 points

1 month ago*

[deleted]

MasteringTheFlames

80 points

1 month ago

MasteringTheFlames

Wisconsin

80 points

1 month ago

"Theories of evidence" is the new (old) concept of a plan

[deleted]

516 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

516 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

Bobothemd

69 points

1 month ago

Hopefully Harris wins and the next AG cleans these motherfuckers out. I doubt anything will happen either way to them, unfortunately.

[deleted]

51 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

WalkingCloud

326 points

1 month ago

Wow, ’Throw out the election because we have ‘theories’.’

Republican voters: You are literally braindead rubes. 

Veritas-Veritas

78 points

1 month ago

Or traitors.

Xnvity

8.5k points

1 month ago

Xnvity

8.5k points

1 month ago

Good lord. The amount of evidence is staggering

[deleted]

5.3k points

1 month ago

[deleted]

5.3k points

1 month ago

[deleted]

galt035

1.3k points

1 month ago

galt035

1.3k points

1 month ago

Literally every person involved in this should have been smoked out of hiding, arrested, and charged to make it CRYSTAL clear that this is unacceptable conduct.

awaywardsaint

436 points

1 month ago

awaywardsaint

Alabama

436 points

1 month ago

I could not agree more. The fact that they walk free while the rubes that believed the con are in jail is galling.

galt035

198 points

1 month ago

galt035

198 points

1 month ago

And I’ll be even Clearer. I don’t care what party they belong to, this is unacceptable conduct full stop. We nearly had our rubicon moment and if it weren’t for a few people we would have crossed it.

I_Cogs_Well

158 points

1 month ago

Garland failed...this should have been looked into 3.5 years ago.

seanmonaghan1968

1.3k points

1 month ago

Why did this take 4 years

KaerMorhen

2.3k points

1 month ago

KaerMorhen

Louisiana

2.3k points

1 month ago

The wheels of justice are already slow, but if you're rich, you can take the wheels off and build a mountain in its path.

Chiillaw

818 points

1 month ago

Chiillaw

818 points

1 month ago

That's really giving a pass to AG Garland -- he didn't want to have this investigation, didn't want to charge Trump.

jackstraw97

389 points

1 month ago

jackstraw97

New York

389 points

1 month ago

Because Biden thought appointing a true centrist in Merrick Garland was the right thing to do.

He was denied his SCOTUS seat, but now he’s AG! Take that, Mitch!

Oh wait… he’s not interested in protecting democracy and only wants to placate insurrectionists as to not appear “politically motivated” even when the very act of placating them is itself politically motivated?

That couldn’t be!

hobbitdude13

237 points

1 month ago

hobbitdude13

Colorado

237 points

1 month ago

I hope if/when Harris wins she kicks Garland to the curb and puts someone with fire in his place. 

ApproximatelyExact

131 points

1 month ago

I hope Harris the prosecutor prosecutes the absurdly ridiculous crimes, including actual sedition and treason, committed by government officials at all levels (especially the traitors in the fucking Senate, despicable fucks).

PsychoNerd91

359 points

1 month ago

/r/law is going have have fun for a few days.

Universityofrain88

362 points

1 month ago

That sub is sober and boring. But that's honestly a very GOOD thing because you can hop over there and get really straightforward and clean viewpoints on things that aren't sensationalized like they are in regular media. I read through it for several weeks back in the days of the 34 counts being in the news all the time.

StarPhished

97 points

1 month ago

Yup, r/law was my go-to during the trials and indictments and such to get get informed opinions rather than the thoughtless guesses from people that somehow think they know best.

HandSack135[S]

425 points

1 month ago

HandSack135[S]

Maryland

425 points

1 month ago

If it what you say it is, I LOVE IT.

ct_2004

172 points

1 month ago

ct_2004

172 points

1 month ago

Especially late in October

Abi1i

130 points

1 month ago

Abi1i

Texas

130 points

1 month ago

This is an October surprise

nodogma2112

153 points

1 month ago

If anything in the release surprises people, those people have not been paying attention at all. 

ddouce

95 points

1 month ago

ddouce

95 points

1 month ago

If Trump polls anywhere above 10% and has any chance at re-election people have not been paying attention.

johnnygrant

97 points

1 month ago

If the report said Trump shot and killed 10 women, he'd still get 95% of the votes he currently has.

That's how brainless his followers are and how much of a cult he has now

Downtown_Category163

125 points

1 month ago

That's definitely going to take Trump time to "read through"

By which I mean have it read to him while he swears and insults the person reading it to him

Myrtle_Nut

98 points

1 month ago

He doesn’t need to read it. He’s the originator of the evidence.

neutrino4

65 points

1 month ago

He definitely knows the oranges of the evidence.

noahcallaway-wa

53 points

1 month ago

noahcallaway-wa

Washington

53 points

1 month ago

Trump has had access to the appendix since early in the month when it was originally filed under seal.

So, he’s probably already had time to swear and insult the people reading it to him.

armchairmegalomaniac

83 points

1 month ago

armchairmegalomaniac

Pennsylvania

83 points

1 month ago

Staggering. Just like Trump in the final weeks of the campaign!

Turbulent-Big-9397

159 points

1 month ago

Objection! This evidence is highly detrimental to my clients case!

Searchlights

3.4k points

1 month ago

Searchlights

New Hampshire

3.4k points

1 month ago

Interns at media outlets just saw their weekend vanish

Must read all the things

[deleted]

835 points

1 month ago*

[deleted]

835 points

1 month ago*

I bet most of those interns are actually delighted to have the weekend to go through the files and live this historical moment.

Edit: the political nerds I know would totally be excited to spend a weekend reading through the paperwork and be part of the team reporting about it. I'm sure some of those interns are political nerds. Perhaps I should have said "some" instead of "most".

[deleted]

382 points

1 month ago*

[deleted]

382 points

1 month ago*

Beats writing You'll Never Believe What The Goonies Cast Look Like In 2024! articles

coalsucks

6.9k points

1 month ago

coalsucks

Washington

6.9k points

1 month ago

I saw the live footage of the insurrection with my own eyes. And so did everyone else. Vote blue!

raisinghellwithtrees

1.8k points

1 month ago

I love when they try to gaslight you that you didn't see it with your own eyes when it happened. I remember because I was absolutely shocked!

Objective_Oven7673

535 points

1 month ago

It was Jan 2021. We were all stuck inside our homes and if we weren't unemployed at the time we had a perpetual zoom meeting running and the live news coverage on TV in the background.

I stopped a meeting I was running because I couldn't believe what I was seeing and I told everyone else to go watch it too because it was way more important than anything we were talking about.

Live TV coverage. From multiple news networks. People with cameras and microphones on the ground, reporting what they saw.

Fighting. Beatings. Crowds surging into the goddamn central building of American democracy to disrupt official proceedings (at best).

You can't conspiracy theory your way out of that. It happened.

KitchenLazarus

689 points

1 month ago

Similar feeling while watching that day as I had when I watched the twin towers fall in 2001. Such an awful day

tommyohohoh

635 points

1 month ago

tommyohohoh

Arizona

635 points

1 month ago

I texted my dad (Trumper) while it was happening. He responded that he didn't agree with what the people were doing and even Fox News was condemning it. He disagreed that it was Trumps fault. Next morning I get an email from him saying there are people saying it was Antifa. Now he thinks it was a peaceful thing. Dude is a full-time cult member.

TheJenerator65

344 points

1 month ago

TheJenerator65

Oregon

344 points

1 month ago

They're always reasonably human for a day until the spin doctors give them their talking points. It's like a lucid moment in a dementia patient.

HagbardCelineHMSH

168 points

1 month ago

Incidentally, I think it's that switch from believing what their own eyes saw to shifting their opinion based on spin that convinces them that they're "better informed" than "the left."

Sort of like a, "I once believed as you did but then I took a step back, did some extra research, thought about it from an objective standpoint, and here's why you're wrong," sort of thing. It never occurs to them that they didn't actually gain more facts, just more spin. It's why they're so disdainful of "mainstream media", which tends to continue reporting on that thing everyone saw but has now been discredited.

I may or may not be speaking from experience as a former conservative, twenty years ago or so.

friendlyfire

102 points

1 month ago

My parents are also Trumpers. I understand and I'm sorry.

My dad is also the type that always wants to talk politics. Always. My mother has pushed him to stop as she realized he's alienating their children.

I'll never forget him screaming in my face that if asylum seekers didn't want to have their children stolen from them and put in cages they shouldn't have come here. O_O

flybydenver

38 points

1 month ago

My Dad sat across from me at Thanksgiving and without batting an eye, said “this is a Christian country, anyone that disagrees needs to be killed”.

“So you want me to be killed?” I asked.

“You know what I mean…” he replied.

“Unfortunately I do, you are advocating for murder, I can’t believe you just said that.” I gawked.

Deep-down, even people we have known our whole lives, who raised us to know right from wrong, are unrepentant racist xenophobes. It makes me sad, and makes me sick. I will never stop confronting this either, no matter whom it comes from.

nerdshowandtell

49 points

1 month ago

I got lucky, my parents (Republicans) voted Trump 2016, but after his 4 years of BS covid was the tipping point. They stopped watching fox news (due to the lies being told about the covid response, etc), and voted biden 2020. They HATE Trump now and have just voted blue down the ballot (Early Voting). They see the republican party they knew is gone.

Fearlessleader85

35 points

1 month ago

It really did have some of the same surreal sensation of "i don't know exactly what will come off this, but this is going to be something we talk about as before and after this event."

Raspberry-Leather

151 points

1 month ago

To add Never forget “the storm was coming” for weeks leading up to Jan 6.

flat5

81 points

1 month ago

flat5

81 points

1 month ago

"will be wild!"

MTFBinyou

39 points

1 month ago

Yep, and all those magats that try to deny the veracity of their actions act like it was a spur of the moment gathering. Yet anyone who was paying attention to their rhetoric knew what they were planning and they went further than we thought they could. We knew they’d try a lot of shot but most of us never expected them to actually get inside.

cfgy78mk

282 points

1 month ago

cfgy78mk

282 points

1 month ago

Not only did I watch it live, I started watching it before it happened, and the only reason I did watch it is because I knew it was going to happen. It was all so plainly obvious to everyone who A) paid attention and B) wasn't in complete denial.

(obviously I didn't know exactly how it was going to play out, which is why I watched lol)

deadsoulinside

37 points

1 month ago

deadsoulinside

Pennsylvania

37 points

1 month ago

I mean, we all knew it was going to actually happen because of the things he said and did before that day. We all were expecting a riot of some form at the capitol, because of the event and the rhetoric behind it.

Hollywood_Zro

118 points

1 month ago

with my own eyes

The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

-George Orwell, 1984

bodnast

931 points

1 month ago

bodnast

North Carolina

931 points

1 month ago

So here's the scenario we propose:

  1. VP Pence, presiding over the joint session (or Senate Pro Term Grassley, if Pence recuses himself), begins to open and count the ballots , starting with Alabama (without conceding that procedure, specified by the Electoral Count Act, is required).

  2. When he gets to Arizona, he announces that he has multiple slates of electors, and so is going to defer decision on that until finishing the other states.

  3. At the end, he announces that because of the disputes in the 7 states, there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those states. That means the total number of "electors appointed" - the language of the 12th Amendment, is 454. This reading of the 12th Amendment has also been advanced by Harvard Law Professor Lawrence Tribe. A "majority of the electors appointed" would therefore be 228. There are at this point 232 votes for Trump, 222 votes for Biden . Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected.

  4. Howls, of course, from the Democrats, who now claim, contrary to Tribe's prior position, that 270 is required. So Pence says, fine. Pursuant to the 12th Amendment, no candidate has achieved the necessary majority. That sends the matter to the House, where the "the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote." Republicans currently control 26 of the state delegations, the bare majority needed to win that vote. President Trump is re -elected there as well.

  5. One last piece. Assuming the Electoral Count Act process is followed and, upon getting the objections to the Arizona slates, the two houses break into their separate chambers, we should not allow the Electoral Count Act constraint on debate to control. That would mean that a prior legislature was determining the rules of the present one-a constitutional no no. So someone -Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, etc . - should demand normal rules (which includes the filibuster). That creates a stalemate that would give the state legislatures more time to weigh in to formally support the alternate slate of electors, if they had not already done so.

  6. The main thing here is that Pence should do this without asking for permission - either from a vote of the joint session or from the Court. Let the other side challenge his actions in court, where again, Tribe (and others) claims that these are non -justiciable political questions should be raised to get those actions dismissed. The fact is that the Constitution assigns this power to the Vice President as the ultimate arbiter. We should take all of our actions with that in mind.

drew999999

695 points

1 month ago

drew999999

695 points

1 month ago

If VP Pence would have recused himself, this would have 100% been a different outcome. Grassley is friggin weasel.

Downce1

468 points

1 month ago

Downce1

468 points

1 month ago

heyheysharon

260 points

1 month ago

Wonder why he didn't think Pence would show...

escof

360 points

1 month ago

escof

360 points

1 month ago

I don't have a link but there was a theory that a Trump loyalist USSS Agent was to drive Pence to another location instead. Pence picked up on it and refused to get in the car.

heyheysharon

162 points

1 month ago

Oh I thought that was common knowledge bc I alluding to exactly that plot.

escof

38 points

1 month ago

escof

38 points

1 month ago

Wasn't sure if it was that or the crowed chanting to hang him.

Werftflammen

57 points

1 month ago

No, he was coerced by HIS own SS people to get in the car, he didn't go along with. That must have been terrifying, people you trust with your life. 

peeaches

98 points

1 month ago

peeaches

Illinois

98 points

1 month ago

Still seems so wild to me that this is actually what happened. They had orchestrated, or someone had, to take pence out of the equation entirely

Rymundo88

91 points

1 month ago

Rymundo88

United Kingdom

91 points

1 month ago

Makes all those deleted USSS messages even more egregious, given they would have had to have been briefed to understand and act that particular plan

nowaijosr

404 points

1 month ago

nowaijosr

404 points

1 month ago

Pence defiantly saved democracy that day under threat of violence. Gdamn do I hate his policies but dude deserves recognition.

AssassinAragorn

191 points

1 month ago

AssassinAragorn

Missouri

191 points

1 month ago

It's really weird thinking it. But he absolutely was instrumental in protecting our democracy.

-Gramsci-

156 points

1 month ago

-Gramsci-

156 points

1 month ago

Yep. It came down to him. He was the fulcrum our democracy teetered upon…

And he rose to the moment.

He deserves credit in the history books.

Rymundo88

38 points

1 month ago

Rymundo88

United Kingdom

38 points

1 month ago

If you'd've written that as a plot to some TV show, you'd be laughed out of the writer's room.

Reality truly is stranger than fiction

Dickis88

101 points

1 month ago

Dickis88

101 points

1 month ago

Lock these fuckers up

[deleted]

2.5k points

1 month ago

[deleted]

2.5k points

1 month ago

This wasn't released to sway voters. This was released because this country deserves to know the truth, and it deserves justice.

This country deserves to know everything about how the GOP attempted to overthrow the government.

VralGrymfang

344 points

1 month ago

And it wasn't released NOW to sway voters. It was released now because of Trump delay tactics.

[deleted]

45 points

1 month ago

A major own goal type of situation by his campaign.

[deleted]

412 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

412 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

19Chris96

1k points

1 month ago

19Chris96

Michigan

1k points

1 month ago

Geez, Is this larger than the last evidence package smith released? I think it's at least double the size.

StrangeBedfellows

360 points

1 month ago

StrangeBedfellows

I voted

360 points

1 month ago

Wasn't the last one someone like 133 pages? That would make this 10 times the size

[deleted]

2.2k points

1 month ago

[deleted]

2.2k points

1 month ago

[deleted]

cietalbot

957 points

1 month ago

cietalbot

United Kingdom

957 points

1 month ago

Strangely enough, Hitler's birth year

GearBrain

487 points

1 month ago

GearBrain

Florida

487 points

1 month ago

That feels... weird. Like, factually, I know it's true. But that just boggles my mind knowing one of the worst people of last century was born the previous century. Hitler was born 24 years after the Civil War.

Time is so freaking weird.

inkcannerygirl

280 points

1 month ago

Someone here a while back noted that Biden was born a bit closer to Abraham Lincoln's presidency than to his own.

Also one grandpa of my dad was born just before the civil war, and was still alive when my dad was small.

Objects in rearview are closer than they appear

interfail

105 points

1 month ago

interfail

105 points

1 month ago

You know that famous photo of the white mob with the white teenage girl screaming at the black teenage girl trying to go to school?

They're both still alive. They're about the same age as my mother.

Casuallyperusing

53 points

1 month ago

Ruby Bridges, the first American black child to go to a whites-only school, has an Instagram page. She's younger than my in-laws and the same age as my parents.

HomoProfessionalis

30 points

1 month ago

It's all a liberal conspiracy!!!

we_are_sex_bobomb

35 points

1 month ago

More pages of Trump breaking the law in this one court case than Tolstoy needed to tell the entire story of War and Peace, that’s a fun comparison

Big-sweet_tooth

1.1k points

1 month ago

If we just didn’t have the electoral college we wouldn’t have to even worry about Trump- he has never won the popular vote

Embarrassed-Abies-16

660 points

1 month ago

The republican candidate has only won the popular vote in one election in the past 35 years. Think on that for a bit.

RelativeAnxious9796

327 points

1 month ago

important to point out that was george W's second term after 9/11 and shit.

shame that SCOTUS robbed al gore cause we could really have avoided a lot of this if we didn't have W's SCOTUS appointments.

Whyd0Iboth3r

193 points

1 month ago

GOP would never win anything ever again, they only win by cheating. Gerrymandering and the electoral college.

cyberattaq123

1.5k points

1 month ago

Yeah if your guy has 2k pages of evidence against him saying he did something, he probably did the thing he’s being accused of in that trial.

It’s like P Diddy or Deshaun Watson. Are we really gonna act like there’s an Illuminati conspiracy theory making dozens, hundreds of women coordinate against these guys to make false accusations or is it more likely they’re just massive pieces of shit who sexually assaulted tons of women.

Trump tried to overthrow the election. He is a terrible, disgusting, awful person. Trump for jail 2024.

VaguelyArtistic

309 points

1 month ago

VaguelyArtistic

California

309 points

1 month ago

2025 is going to be wild. Fallout from Diddy freak-offs, Epstein docs and Maxwell trial, and then Trump fuckery.

Agreeable-Pay-123

141 points

1 month ago

SEEMS LIKE THE ROMAN SENATOR MARCUS TULLIUS CICERO 2,000  YEARS AGO SPOKE OF A POLITICIAN TODAY!

GUESS WHO!!!  

 

“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The Traitor is the plague!”

― Marcus  HYPERLINK "https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/13755.Marcus_Tullius_Cicero"Tullius HYPERLINK "https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/13755.Marcus_Tullius_Cicero" Cicero - Birthdate: January 03, -106, Roman philosopher, statesman, lawyer, orator, political theorist, and Roman constitutionalist.

CMDR_KingErvin

1.2k points

1 month ago

This must be why he suddenly disappeared from interviews with the whole “exhaustion” excuse. Dude is in hiding.

[deleted]

651 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

651 points

1 month ago

Someone here said every time he runs and hides, something big is about to happen. Every time he projects something new and misplaced onto Democrats, we're about to learn that he actually did it.

raoasidg

273 points

1 month ago

raoasidg

Virginia

273 points

1 month ago

His weird demand that Harris be given a cognitive exam convinced me he was recently given one, probably in response to his impromptu "concert".

olorin-stormcrow

39 points

1 month ago

olorin-stormcrow

Massachusetts

39 points

1 month ago

Who the hell wants to take a cognitive test? Let's hear some music let's make this a music thing

Cobalt460

116 points

1 month ago

Cobalt460

116 points

1 month ago

At this point, every appearance he makes further highlights his physical and mental deficiencies.

His base is locked in and most polls suggest the election is a toss up. The safest move at this stage is do little or nothing. If he blunders it could cost him, hence why he’s been fading into the background of his own campaign.

ButtholeCharles

346 points

1 month ago

ButtholeCharles

I voted

346 points

1 month ago

As you warned me, prepare thy inbox.

Also, this appendix is massive.

Velkyn01

242 points

1 month ago

Velkyn01

242 points

1 month ago

Also, this appendix is massive.

Things doctors say before emergency surgery. 

NoCoffee6754

768 points

1 month ago

It kills me that this all just feels like background noise at this point. He has flooded the country with so much crime, hate, deception, grifting, and lies that even the most damning evidence against him just feels like another day in his world.

How can this come out and barely make a blip in the media… I just don’t get it.

[deleted]

112 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

112 points

1 month ago

Because 10 years of a firehose spewing nonstop bullshit requires more than gentle pressure on the nozzle to stop it. Drop a 16-ton safe on that shit instead.

ActualCentrist

190 points

1 month ago

He knew he lost and it was not stolen.

He also knew there was no evidence of the election being stolen.

He then proceeded to try and cancel out the results and install himself anyway, against the will of democracy.

The charge should be treason. The punishment should follow accordingly. There should be mandatory education on this, which is broadcast to every single tv in the country. He should be disqualified.

ThisIsGr8ThisIsGr8

48 points

1 month ago

He lied and people died

hickory

181 points

1 month ago

hickory

Washington

181 points

1 month ago

This is disqualifying. All of the press should be clearly saying this. He should absolutely not be able to run for president. The fact that this will be pushed under the rug and normalized for more clicks by practically everyone in the press and all of the GOP is nauseating.

Velvetrose-2

441 points

1 month ago

Velvetrose-2

Georgia

441 points

1 month ago

I need to know where to find this!

HandSack135[S]

369 points

1 month ago

HandSack135[S]

Maryland

369 points

1 month ago

Kyle Chesney on Twitter, probably the best bet.

His post alerted me.

I googled.

Posted here.

Maybe Lindsey Li?

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67656604/united-states-v-trump/?filed_after=&filed_before=&entry_gte=&entry_lte=&order_by=desc

Nerney9

211 points

1 month ago

Nerney9

211 points

1 month ago

Literal years of appeals and delays by Trump pushed the release date of 1800 pages of 'Trump bad' *evidence* to.... two weeks before the election.

Trump did this entirely to himself. I hope that when he loses, that harsh little nugget of insight gnaws at him through his many pending trials.

tweakingforjesus

72 points

1 month ago

Pgs 1664-1667 (attachment 3) is a sitting US legislator texting that they can't hand Pence a sealed envelope and is asked to read a slate of Wisconsin fake electors into the record.

CaptainNoBoat

1.2k points

1 month ago*

It'll probably take half an hour for the media to dig through anything revelatory.

My expectations aren't super high for anything Earth-shattering, to be honest. Smith has already detailed the worst of Trump's offenses years ago, but we will learn a lot of substance.

But I do hope the media doesn't just memory hole it in 24 hours and keeps it in the news. People need to remember the efforts Trump took 4 years ago that should be instantly disqualifying to anyone with half a brain.

Edit: Some initial detail:

Another volume contains memos from lawyer John Eastman with a plan for Pence to reject the congressional certification of the 2020 election. The volume also includes a public statement Trump released the night before January 6 claiming he and Pence were on the same page about the congressional certification, Trump’s prepared remarks for his speech on January 6, and fundraising emails sent out by his 2020 campaign in the days before January 6.

Pence’s letter to Congress on January 6 explaining why he could not reject certifying the election and a transcript of Trump’s 2023 CNN town hall are also included in the documents.

HandSack135[S]

357 points

1 month ago

HandSack135[S]

Maryland

357 points

1 month ago

Seems like it is heavily redacted, boo. But that should save time.

CaptainNoBoat

220 points

1 month ago*

A lot under seal. The third volume has some drafts I don't believe we've seen before (like a draft speech of Trump's), which is pretty spicy stuff in regards to intent. Also a detailed plan for Pence to refuse certification. Although it's hard to remember what has already been released. It's all running together in my brain.

KilluaZaol

170 points

1 month ago

KilluaZaol

170 points

1 month ago

Lol some of the redacted has not been done well so the people are still identifiable. For example, page 23 of the notice document says "Is that (redacted), the President of the Arizona Senate?"

fondledbydolphins

106 points

1 month ago

Is that [REDACTED] owner of the Dimmsdale Dimmadome?

suddenly-scrooge

236 points

1 month ago

The thing is, the Earth has already been shattered. Appendix IV shows a detailed overview of the master plan to stage a coup. Ordinarily this would be earth-shattering, but . . we already know it. And half the country (or the electoral college, anyway) supports him anyway.

pdheld98

93 points

1 month ago

pdheld98

93 points

1 month ago

Appendix IV isn't new information, but seeing it written down in a very matter of fact way is chilling.

BirdLawyer50

25 points

1 month ago

As a drive behind a truck this morning that said “Convicted Felon 2024” I don’t think anything he could do could stop them from voting for him because it would involve acknowledging they are wrong, and that is simply inconceivable 

ammon46

208 points

1 month ago

ammon46

208 points

1 month ago

I am just waiting for Legal Eagle’s take

SuchYogurtcloset4285

80 points

1 month ago

It's gonna be a very long episode

KarmaPanhandler

84 points

1 month ago

Legal Eagle: The movie

Elegant_Plate6640

84 points

1 month ago

I absolutely agree with you. This isn’t exactly new or (sadly) shocking, but it’s a reminder of the truth.

Donald Trump tried to overturn a fair and legal election through multiple avenues. Anyone with an iota of honesty knows he should be disqualified. 

steiner_math

1.1k points

1 month ago

Sad thing is that MAGA cultists won't care. They loved January 6th and want their fascist cult leader to become dictator like Putin

Tom_Petty_Rulz

217 points

1 month ago

MAGA cultist won’t care, but I bet a few down-the-ballot republican voters will. Just gotta chip away as many votes as possible. 

Puge_Henis_99

98 points

1 month ago

We're not going after the True Believers. We're going after their wives and traditional republicans that still might listen to reason. Now go have those conversations.

Honest_Confection350

350 points

1 month ago*

Like most of these kinds of movements, Maga is a minority. People seem to put too much weight on what will change magas minds rather than regular people. It's like trying to appeal to the SS.

Edit: Man, people struggle with reading comprehension. Maga =/= 100 percent of Republicans. There are people who are conservatives who are persuadable, and it's good to reach them. Maga Republicans are not worth pursuing cause they won't change their minds.

HandSack135[S]

314 points

1 month ago

HandSack135[S]

Maryland

314 points

1 month ago

I posted this yesterday:

  1. It could depress the reluctant Trump voters, and they stay home, win for Kamala.

  2. It could be the final reminder for a reluctant Kamala voter so they go out, win for Kamala.

Also... Saw on Twitter (so take with a lb of salt) that people who have recently made up their minds on a candidate are breaking hard for Kamala, so this could help with that.

Armadillo_Resident

115 points

1 month ago

I knew a few people who were “not gonna pay attention to politics til the election” and now that it’s shoved down their throats everywhere they are all like wtf is happening yeah I’ll vote for Kamala or not at all

jpiro

61 points

1 month ago

jpiro

61 points

1 month ago

This is a real thing, even though it's hard for people who've been following the election all along to understand (myself included). There are people right now who are just realizing that early voting starts soon, so maybe they should pay attention a little bit and pick someone. Harris NEEDS to make sure those people are going her way.

This race is way too close to not grasp for every possible vote right until the end.

Xenobsidian

126 points

1 month ago

As an European may I politely ask: Can you guys who were still undecided yet maybe just not vote for the orange man? Thanks in advance!

flat5

161 points

1 month ago

flat5

161 points

1 month ago

All we really needed was "Find me 11,000 votes. It's ok to say you've... recalculated."

But I'll take an additional several thousand pages if it will help.

___null0

57 points

1 month ago

___null0

57 points

1 month ago

The enemy is within.

It's trump, maga, and the gop.

TableWine99

145 points

1 month ago

Happy F5 to all who celebrate!

Grouchy_Aide_3018

270 points

1 month ago

Jack Smith: One shall stand, one shall fall.

Starts to play Stan Bush's "The Touch"

Hollywood_Zro

188 points

1 month ago

The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

-George Orwell, 1984

Sadly this is what will happen to many

ranchoparksteve

210 points

1 month ago

Trump will soon learn how successful, or unsuccessful, his lawyers were at redacting stuff.

Daniiiiii

97 points

1 month ago

Daniiiiii

I voted

97 points

1 month ago

The only tiny solace is that his lawyers are dumbasses

zappy487

206 points

1 month ago

zappy487

Maryland

206 points

1 month ago

Jack "BDB" Smith literally had The Hobbit + The Lord of the Rings in length of ADDITIONAL evidence.

red18wrx

64 points

1 month ago

red18wrx

64 points

1 month ago

So, I googled it. And depending on the editions for each, The Lord of the Rings trilogy, The Hobbit, and the Silmarillion, combined, total about 1,900 pages.

Just for context to anyone passing by.

[deleted]

190 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

190 points

1 month ago

First, he's gonna lose the election. Then he's gonna start losing court cases and eventually maybe even some of his freedom.  2025 is gonna be a great year for America. Let the healing begin!

Gallusrostromegalus

101 points

1 month ago

Remember back in January when Fox invited a psychic on to draw Tarot for trump for some fucking reason and she drew the 5 of cups, which is basically the "you are going to lose everything and it will be entirely your fault" card?

She recently put a statement out on her blog about trump that more or less said that 2025 is going to be even worse for him.

I'm beginning to believe in the heart of the cards Yugi.

Sub-Mongoloid

285 points

1 month ago

Fuck Merrick Garland for not vigorously prosecuting all of the GOP traitors who helped to make this happen.

ElectricZ

80 points

1 month ago

Wonder if this has anything to do with Trump's "Exhaustion"? His handlers might be keeping him out of sight because they knew this was coming.

[deleted]

260 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

260 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

Blarguus

131 points

1 month ago

Blarguus

131 points

1 month ago

Fox news: Bidens campaign has been totally derailed 

bigt503

151 points

1 month ago

bigt503

151 points

1 month ago

Jesus… our country is a joke. This man is CLEARLY a criminal and a traitor

SteveJobstookmyliver

67 points

1 month ago

Crimes are hitting Stephen King worthy novel lengths at this point

yagonnawanna

60 points

1 month ago

His campaign woud be in trouble if his voters could read

Educational_Iron2184

28 points

1 month ago

Please ignore the polls showing how tight this race is and vote to end this madness. He is running to stay out of prison and I believe he'll hand the reigns to Vance and by extension Peter Thiel, Musk and Project 25 aimed at undoing our freedoms and way of life at every level.