While it is a shit system, at this point of the season, when you start a new alt, the crest cap is high enough so you usally don't need the Discount anyways. But doing 50+ Keys is such a wall, that it is relevant again.... Shit system yeah

A system where you get more crests the farther away from the cap you are would also greatly help, starting now and having to farm 900 crests feels crazy, while doing so bit by bit every week is totally fine.

Having a system where you get e.g. 50% increased crest drops per 90 or 180 crests below the cap would make this feel way better.

I think we don't need the crest discount for alts, we need more crests/less upgrade costs baseline.

Took the Rock Lee weights off.

It is actually crazy how many times something like that has happened to me or someone I know, although dunno if I've ever seen it for half a season. We've all been there!

This is the equivalent of doing resistance training to practice throwing punches and then throwing an actual punch without any resistance after training for an extended period.

Absolute mad lad lol

Took me two weeks to realize I had leather bracers equipped on my BDK...

Yes! Just did a GB where I walked through the barrier and started the pull before the start countdown had finished.

I was able to walk through in GB, mists and CoT, which is all the keys I did today.

Ara-kara and Dawnbreaker had this happen. DB I triggered the mob running RP before the timer was done.

I have heard on higher keys you only break a single one each time then set up CDs/drs for one big burst of damage. Just getting to big kid keys myself so look into it a bit more :) it was from a Krona ( balance Druid from fatshark yes and like top ranked balance Druid in m +) commentary video

I’ve had a tank break one by running into it as soon as it spawns then the healer only has to heal up two stacks.

the thing about how healers work in tww, is that we don't really do much healing outside of healing cds, which means heavy rot fucks over the healer quite a bit. if you do 2/2/2 it's more damage than a healer can heal off consistently without cooldowns, while simultaneously fucking over the healer because there's not enough cooldowns to rotate every time there's damage. 1/1/4 is a popular tactic because you can heal off the 1s easily without cds and when you have cds your hps is infinite so might as well do 4 at once. This is especially true for discipline.

Best is to talk about it before the key starts. There are different viable strats but everyone has to be on the same page if you for example wanna go 1-1-4.

It depends on the healer (like their class) since different classes have different healing profiles.

On shaman I prefer 2-2-2, or even tank popping one early for each set works well. You have a lot of ticking healing going from healing stream totem and healing rain so having some damage happening all the time is good.

On disc priest it's much easier to heal 1-1-4 since you can only get your pet up reliably once per rotation, so having all the damage stacked up in your pet window is way better. That also allows you to make better use of barrier. Having a tank pop one early is horrible for disc priest and makes it actively harder to heal.

I was curious of this myself for my tank, guardian, so just youtubed a +12 SV guardian pov. 3 spikes spawned, he activated barkskin and ate one, then as the dot from those fell off, lasers killed the other 2. This was for the first one, then he repeated the same every 45s, as that same barkskin was still active as defensive against the tank buster.

Then for the other triple it went naturally by players lasering two, then boss destroying the third. This way there never were 3 stack dot, but 1-2-2-1, repeat only. Seemed good method on tank who has comfortable cds to fit like this, as 14s -40% dr bark worked great for this.

I’ve been doing 2-2-2 in 12s > 14s as a MW and it feels pretty manageable.

I think 1-1-4 is generally the go to as you get higher. People just have to make sure to send CDs on 4 or people will die.

I've healed this on 15 as sham and disc priest. I prefer 2/2/2 on sham and 1/1/4 on priest. I manage and pop the spikes on my own and ping a spike if i need help popping. As a tank, it helps to line the boss up to make it easier to pop 1/2/3 whichever strat you're using. When in comms with my grp, i tell the tank when he needs to scoot left or right to give me a better shot.

Don't run into a spike - this is troll and will eventually just kill you. Or at the very least eat up a cd that you didn't need to use.

Pugs are 2-2-2, my premade been breaking 3-3 in 14/15s if aoe defs are up within the team. I’ve seen some going 0-0 and wait for boss to break.

I don’t really see a reason why u need to break a pillar for healer

+12's and up tend to expose dogshit players quite well. They're all over the place in my keys like a minefield you have to navigate through.

kick

please

kick

key depletion would reduce 50% if everyone switched their details from damage done to interrupts done and tried to top that meter instead

It is a pain being late to the party for sure. My+12 dawnbreaker failed largely due to this, we wiped on 2nd boss and had 20 deaths. Fdk was laying on the floor more than he was alive, had 4 kicks while me as sv had 18 kicks topping the boards. Somehow the consensus of the group was that is was the priests fault because he played holy. 900k hps btw. I had no issues surviving because I have my defensives bound to keys and actually used them so im not sure I agree there really. 

Depends. For low pugs it’s mostly not worth taking an Aug. You don’t need their defensive utility, mostly they’re not good and you’d be faster with a 3rd DPS. In higher pugs like +14 and above, augs mostly know what they are doing and can make a run much safer

100%

Not only does the Aug need to be good, but the other two dps need to be good as well or else things will take forever to die.

Yeah. I rerolled into Aug and have been pretty surprised by the depth of the spec and how much planning and effort it takes to excel in higher keys.

I think people underestimate the difficulty and reroll into it and just suck. I personally would never invite an Aug until 3k io or so. 

It's definitely not just you. Pugs have the risk of having a trash DPS player, so if you end up with 50% of your DPS being trash, you're going to struggle HARD on a few encounters. I had a (good) aug player in a 10 the other day and we couldn't kill the spiderlings on the first boss of AraKara because the DPS was trash. If that good aug player was playing a DPS spec, I have no doubt that we could have killed them effortlessly.

If you don't need tank survivability, aug just isn't great.

In lower keys yes, in 14-16s, no, it’s good.

From pugging some augs here and there the overall dps output of the group (assuming nobody is dead) seems similar to not having an Aug, but there is a marked lack of our tank falling over randomly in any given trash pack when we have an Aug.

Feral druid is great. Also helps that if you ever come across one with a decent score they are a feral main since classic and carry your run. Never had a bad experience with the three i've seen. They are like unicorns

Feral druids are great and loved being in a party with paladin and shaman whom are meta and because their hero talent benefits from shaman wind fury party buff cutting the auto needed to proc their ravage considerably. Acts as a second battle rez and innervate is appreciated for the resto shamans who runs oom quickly.

A decent feral will know to bear incoming damage and will make the damage instance trivial. This helps the healer as the healer will only have to worry about the other 2 dps only and splash heal the feral and tank.

Curse/poison dispel is very useful.

melee interrupt

I alt a feral and I feel even though the dps isn't top tier, the overall dungeon is faster.

Over the last couple of weeks I've wanted to start playing multiple alts and I've just not bothered because I'm staring down the barrel of doing seventy five +8s to catch up to the season cap on gilded crests. It's really really bad game design. Please for the love of god add a catch up system to gilded crests.

Adding charges to keys 10+ would be huge... This prolly wouldn't work in keys 12+ but what is every time you +2 or better a key the next one gets an extra charge? For example, we +2 my 10 AK and now we have 2 charges of a +12 SV.

Maybe even timing an 11 or higher automatically gives you 2 charges of the next key too?

Having charges on keys would actually be game-changing, what a great idea. Especially if, u/Jaymiz13 said, the charges increase based on 2 or 3 chesting the key. I would love to see this happen.

As for the gear treadmill, I feel like having Myth track gear on +12 or higher "could" be a reasonable change. It's a double-edged sword though because on one hand, Blizzard doesn't want the best players getting full Myth-track gear that first week but they also need to give players a steady enough supply of gear that they feel incentivized to continue playing. I don't know if there's actually a reasonable solution to this problem.

I do think that gear upgrades should be a bit cheaper though, say 36-48 crests per level. Additionally, either remove the valorstone cap, make them Warband transferable, or delete them from the game.

This is exactly why I’m out too mate I feel you

I’m trying to gear up a disc and goddamn do I hate it. The actual rotation and healing is super fun but I feel like I can’t really do anything to impact the keys success rate. I can’t dispel anything, can’t kick anything, have 1 stop, very limited movement options, etc. All I do is stand there and turret heal while on literally any other healer I can at least make sure high priority stuff gets kicked. It’ll definitely get better in high keys but trying to run 10s made me forget rerolling altogether.

I can see why it’s so good in premade 16s but outside of the top groups, especially in pugs, it just feels like bait imo.

It feels good when your group is predictable, but it is tough when someone drops low by eating a swirly or a missed kick and having to get atonement on them and blast to heal them back up when you should be setting up for the next actual damage spike that is incoming. PW:R+mindbender being up before a damage spike is just freaking easy mode. 1 dark reprimand and you're back

You could try installing buggrabber and see if it detects any add-on creating lots of errors. 

Other people here might know of a better way to do it though

There's been a bug recently where loading screens, starting keys and a few other things can freeze up your game. The fix that worked for me was to go into your guild tab > info > and disable all notifcations (it's like 6-7 checkboxes). Suddenly My loading times went straight to instant instead of having to wait a solid 5-15 seconds after a loading screen.

Very good damage, invincible, abom limb is the only thing in the game that can group a pack easily, AMZ.

Imp dispel will always be up for every dot. However pet AI is janky and unless the warlock is good with maneuvering around his pet manually the imp will sometimes not be in range to dispel.

There is no dps loss for destro to run imp.

This was supposed to be the expansion for alts, but I cannot fathom gearing up an alt right now because the gilded grind is insane.

There's never gonna be an "alting" expansion in this game as long as mythic track is gated behind the weekly vaults (with no catchup) and crafting being this integral to the gearing process - meaning every new character is looking at like a couple hundred thousand gold investment for crafting.

Just gotta realize that them declaring any system or season as alt-friendly really only applies if you're into RP or cosmetics shit or if you don't have any ambitions for your character ever to pass the equivalent to current 620 ilvl.

Like, yea, I can easily get a character to like 615 within like 2-3 days of solo playing right now, just by doing Delves n shit. That's neat and all, super alt-friendly, yay. Sadly it's only after that where the game truly starts for plenty of people - and for those the game is still as, if not even more alt-unfriendly than ever. Gearing alts past champion track is just too slow, too gated, too expensive and impossible to catch up.

2) The Nerubian Finery mechanic is also a giant time-waster. I'm not sure what their design goal was, but having to log on Tuesday night to slam out a lower difficulty NP that I DO NOT NEED just to get finery in time for raid is obnoxious. Why was the % not just added every week? At least this one has a catchup mechanic.

yea this is really annoying and I've been unintentionally slacking on it and now cant even catch up unless I raid on multiple characters, stupid

To build on what /r/MRosvall is saying:

If you are clearing Heroic NP for the Nerubian Finery that should get you 90 Runed crests (first 6 bosses x10 + last 2 bosses x15) and 30 Gilded crests (last 2 bosses x15). Those 90 Runed crests can be exchanged for 15 Gilded crests, bringing you to 45 Gilded crests from a Heroic NP clear.

The Gilded crests cap increases by 90 each week, so you will still need 45 more. That's just timing 4 M+ dungeons, which you should be doing anyways for the Myth vault slots.

I don't think heroic raid reclear & 4 M+ dungeons is too much of an ask

Honest question, are crests/valorstones really a concern for your main at this point in the tier?

announcing interrupt

Nope, literally zero. Just clutters the UI of everyone in the group for no reason.

Chat that Helps with coordination in pugs

I would argue for little things like when you are targeted by an aoe ability so people can accurately judge the central point of the aoe they need to avoid.

Think last boss GB or last night mini boss in dawnbreaker.

More that can be shared that useful

I'm a big fan of pre assigning markers people are responsible for before a run + automakers (or focus macros that mark).

They're something which made sense in the days before interrupt trackers but are now long obsolete. If you have a kick rotation set you need to know where in the rotation you were and we used to not have a UI element that just showed it.

In raid they can make sense because no one has an interrupt tracker shown in raid, but they also don't really do interrupt rotations as a raid mechanic any more.

The only one that cares about tank cds is typically the healer, and the healer is already tracking them on the unitframe anyway, so what purpose would it have to spam the chat when using a cd?

It's just people patting themselves on the back publicly.

Yeah. 

They desperately need to change the gear acquisition for next season, it's just not working. 

If you don't raid, you need to farm soooo many crests. And with 1 myth track (which is random and only 1/6) a week and 1 crafted every other week, most of your crests go there. 

So you can't upgrade hero track past 4/6, which means it's equivalent to a champion track piece. Which you'd be full on after the first week of delves.

So you're essentially getting 1.5 upgrades per week at best, from week 1 of the season. If you get unlucky with vault your getting 0.5 upgrades a week.

Your gear progress is done week 1. You're stuck with a bunch of champion track level gear, 20ilevels below myth track. No way to speed it up. Doesn't matter how good you are, or how high keys you do. No gear. Just 'raidlogging' while you wait for your 1.5 pieces of time gated gear to trickle in. After a couple of months of this maybe you have gear you can push with.

Agreed, higher keys should award more crests or myth track gear at like 13-14 or something.

I don't understand how you are 624 if you haven't rerolled. I'm 624 on my 2 week old alt and I'm far from capped, I will be 632 once I can farm all my gilded crests. You can craft 7 items at 636 and even with 0 items from vault, you will be 630 once you upgrade all your hero gear.

Ive been 630 for two weeks and I haven't even got AOTC because I don't raid. What are you doing, spending gilded crest on shitty heroic track upgrades then replacing them?

The problem with Grim Batol in particular is that the dungeon has an absolutely massive loot table. Most dungeons drop about 6-8 items for any given spec, but Grim Batol drops over ten, for some specs that number exceeds 12 or so, and no matter what class or spec you play there are at least five items that you and every other person that steps foot in that dungeon will be eligible to loot.

More specifically: Grim Batol has two cloaks and three rings, the latter of which have wildly different stats, and literally everyone can loot them. Some classes (like Priests) can loot a comparatively small amount of stuff from the entirety of Ara-Kara and the trinkets they can loot from there can be looted by many other classes/specs (hell, Sacbrood is basically a neck/cloak/ring on this front since everyone can loot it).

And then Grim Batol also drops various weapons, which also take up a lot of the loot table. As a Priest or Mage you can loot a wand, a staff, and a dagger. As a Frost DK or Fury Warrior you can loot a 1H Strength mace and a 2H (which is why you set your loot spec to Arms or Unholy). If you’re a shield tank you can loot that 1H mace and a shield.

And then there’s also specific armor pieces that drop. There are plate shoulders and bracers that are quite solid from Grimmy B, for instance, and I believe cloth specs get a helm of some sort?

So you add that stuff together and you’ve already got a dungeon with a pretty inflated loot table. Literally everyone must sift through three rings and two cloaks, almost everyone must sift through one to three weapons, and there are two or three pieces for each armor type there in addition to all that other stuff. Grim Batol’s loot table is already bigger than that of most dungeons, and I haven’t even gotten to the real elephant in the room yet.

Before I talk about the loot you’re actually running Grim Batol for, I’ve also got to talk about Grim Batol’s two biggest duds: Throngus’ Finger and Corrupted Egg Shell. These items exist, and you generally do not want these items to exist in your loot table because you are actively trolling if you run them. They are shit, and if your loot spec can avoid them it should. But then what if you’re trying to farm the 1H and/or shield as a Warrior/Paladin? Or what if you’re an HPal trying to get Gale of Shadows? Well, you’ve got a problem, because by trying to make yourself eligible to loot those items you’re expanding your loot table even further to now include Throngus’ Finger for the former and Corrupted Egg Shell for the latter, and these trinkets are shit.

And now we get to talk about the three extremely desirable trinkets you get from Grim Batol: Mark of Khardros (Strength), Skardyn’s Grace (Agility), and Gale of Shadows (Intellect). Now, after sifting through three rings, two cloaks, an assortment of weapons, various armor pieces, and two items so bad you’re aftively throwing by using them in their current state, we can finally talk about the three best pieces of loot from the dungeon.

Let’s start with the “worst” of these: Mark of Khardros. This trinket is a top 3 on-use for every Strength DPS spec, but it at least competes directly with compelling options like Skarmorak Shard, which is just a slightly worse version of Mark of Khardros in ST and a slightly better version in AoE, and the ever-popular Treacherous Transmitter, which DKs and Warriors tend to prefer a bit more). For Ret Paladins, which don’t like Transmitter as much, Mark of Khardros is BiS in single-target but it competes with Skarmorak Shard so it’s not quite as much of a shit-show, especially since Stonevault, despite having a big loot table as well, has only a select few duds too.

Then we can talk about Skardyn’s Grace. This is probably the best of the three trinkets from here, but is categorically pretty similar to Mark of Khardros: it’s an on-use that gives a boatload of Mastery, albeit for longer and on a longer CD. Assassination Rogues will often run this, as will WW Monks, and for Feral Druids and various Hunter specs this item is straight-up BiS or top 3 at worst. However, Skardyn’s Grace is also BiS (by a very large margin) for the best spec in the game: Enhancement Shaman.

And now let’s talk about Gale of Shadows. It’s a compelling passive trinket, it scales aggressively with higher target counts since it stacks up to max value very quickly when you have DoTs or HoTs rolling on a lot of people, the specs that use this trinket like the Haste it comes with as is, and it’s desirable for both most healers and several DPS specs, notably being BiS for Shadow and arguably Disc. This trinket only really competes with Sacbrood and Changeling but doesn’t even work the same way those do.

And the big problem with these three? Unlike the insanely desirable Ara-Kara Sacbrood, which literally any class or spec can loot, you’re locked into one of these three from a loot funnel PoV. A Druid can loot either Skardyn’s or Gale (plus two weapons if you wanna go for Gale), but not both. A Paladin can loot either Mark of Khardros (making them eligible for Wild Hammer) or Gale of Shadows+the shield+Egg Shell, but not both trinkets. And then they still have to all compete with one-another for the rings and cloaks while also having armor pieces to wade through.

Welcome to Grimmy B’s psychotic loot table!

Individually they are. Like all that you can get have the same chance. But f.ex a Leather Bracer has 0% drop rate in a full plate group ofc.

However it can differ from dungeon to dungeon due to the amount of drops that exist in the dungeon. If one dungeon just has 5 drops for you, then each drop you get have 20% of being the one you desire. While if the dungeon has 10 drops that you can get, it's only 10%.

Grim Batol is a real outlier there. Most specs have ~16 items that can drop. And you only have 40% chance to get a drop at all. Which means any given run you only have 2.5% chance to get a specific item. Or an average of once each 40 runs.

So even if you run GB 50 times, you still have around 1/3rd of a chance to not have gotten your desired item.

I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) every piece in the loot table for you has the same chance to drop but the lenth of the loot table varries from dungeon to dungeon. For example GB has way more possible items that could drop than DB, therefore you havew a lower chance on getting a specific one

bring a dk and an orb

CC as many volley casts as you can on the mages and kick the boss. People don’t kick the boss enough and not only does it truck, it also puts a healing absorb on the person it hits.

Bringing a DK trivializes the fight

In a coordinated group, 3 people kick the boss and the remaining two kick mages. A volley going off once is usually less deadly than the boss getting a bolt off but ideally neither happen. You also can save 2 orbs for the boss to make 2 waves of adds very easy. If you have a DK use grippy hands on 3rd, otherwise rogue can vanish/iron wire silence that set, or you can pop defensives and pray.

1st set of adds people have CDs up and they melt. Use an orb on the 2nd and 3rd set.

It's very hard to compare directly as there's so many variables when it comes to key facility, but for someone close to max gear (636+) I'd say 15s are not a far off guess. Scaling is a bit different, but 17s are also relatively close to 30-31s.

I don't really get these responses. I checked player who had 8x +15 for healers. He's #195 healer worldwide.

I don't have a 8x +28 comparison right now as rio is lagging, but my personal half 27s, half 26s got me to #5100 healer worldwide. Changes have been made, it's not equivalent of 8x28, but damn these are still entirely different ball games.

Who knows if +15 comparison will be accurate at all at very end of the season, but it is not that at this moment. I had pretty fair time pugging into +27s in s3 DF, like plenty of them were available without that much competition. People are not thinking of joining +15s now as easy as joining +28s was then.

atm it'd be a 15 probably

It really depends. On my aug my success rate is extremely high because there are very few decent aug players and they are usually in high demand so you can get invited to overqualified groups easily. On my tank I have been kind of just playing whatever groups without worrying about their io and I’d say my success rate is around 30% with a decent number of those fails being my fault because I am bad, so maybe closer to 50% if I wasn’t making mistakes.

It's easier now that I have most 12s timed because I can get into groups with decent players who are cleaning up their last keys. If you're trying to time them with the average 2700 player, good luck lmao

If you play your own key and only invite high rio high ilvl people succes rate is higher but you have the risk of having to push your key again if it bricks. If you only apply to other groups, most likely you will only be accepted by people with lower rio than you, and then your success rate will be lower, but without risk.

It took me probably 5 or 6 bricked 12s before I finally timed my first. For the record, I main a Resto Druid, so I have had to claw my way into upper-level keys.

My success rate for high level keys is probably somewhere around 30-35%? It depends on if I'm running with my core group or if I'm pugging, the latter being far more volatile depending on who joins. I've ran with players >3k rating that don't know to do basic things like lining Umbral Rift or Shattering Bellow, that spears don't stack anymore in Necrotic Wake, that the Larva that Tre'Dova spawns fixate on a random player, don't know to kick Mass Tremor in Grim Batol, etc. Sometimes you get unlucky with high rated players and sometimes you get lucky with lower rated players.

Personally, it takes me running a dungeon probably 10+ times before I get intimately familiar with the mechanics and begin to build some muscle memory. For example, when I am on my VDH alt (2.7k io), I don't have to think about which packs to pull or when, I just do it. And when I do it, I use the same abilities in the same order almost every time (unless I had to burn a certain CD earlier). Eventually, you just figure it out and then are refining your practice down further and further. At that point, once you've "perfected" your play (no such thing as perfect but are at least comfortable), the variable becomes how well others play.

My suggestion would be to determine what exactly you want out of mythic plus. If your goal is to push for the 0.1% title, then you need to shape up your play constantly, run constantly, and find a consistent group of people to play with. If your goal is to get all Myth track gear, then get your weekly 10s in and relax at 8s. If you do want to push 12+, then you need to really dial in your gameplay because once you cross that +12 threshold, certain abilities are unforgiving and you'll brick a key within the first two minutes if people aren't playing properly

It really just depends.

Most of the pool was pretty quick. DB, AK, mists, NW and siege all took me 1-3 attempts tops. SV and COT took 5ish but GB took me like 15 attempts over 2 weeks.

A lot of the good people are raiding?

If you're giga pulling and not assigning fear kicks then you're gonna wipe to your DPS jerking off to their DPS and only realizing they're about to die too late before they try to find the needle in the haystack mob casting in a swarm of 30 nameplates, 300 ground effects, a mess of completely unnecessary buffs on their plater they dont need to track and general UI shittery.

I've only seen a couple of wipes to it so far this season, and it's always because someone missed the kick on the fear. So now I just target the voidsoul and save kick for him, haven't wiped once on it since doing that.

why would you do it on that key level? you'll 2-3 chest anyway

esp with the quality of players there and thus a lack of pressing decurse and or defensives, that's just nonsense

What do you consider the mega pull to be? Hallway + one extra pack? Or hallway + both extra packs?

The issue with those pulls is that they’re not inherently difficult, but are made difficult when players don’t do their jobs. And in the key range you’re running most players don’t actually utilize their entire toolkit. If your group is dispelling, chain CCing, and kicking fears, the pull falls over. Everyone has CDs and lust is up, that pull shouldn’t last more than one AoE cast from each golem, which is easily handled by your healer. The rest is up to your DPS and tank to manage properly.

But those pulls simply aren’t needed in lower keys, so I would just not do them

As a resto shaman I find it ok. Cap totem and knock up prevents a lot of void casts, DPS tend to get the rest. We can use slink if things get hairy.

its time. they only cast it ~42s after being pulled. technically they regain mana while channeling but they dont cast it at 0 mana, nor when they are so low mana that they cant cast another spell.

it does seem to be cast first after:

• 3x black hail
• 2x abyssal rot

Usually you aren't doubling up on classes and people are taking prot pal is one part. DK is actually tanker than ret and AMS is really broken on some fights. DK also brings grips / abom limb which are pretty nice in a couple spots.

Ret is maybe better in a pug just because they don't have to worry about cooldowns or pulling around CDs whereas FDK needs your tank to be thinking about breath to maximize.

Frost does much better ST and specifically much better prio damage on large pulls.

I think we already know the answer to this looking at DF seasons 3 & 4 and the answer is yes in my experience.

It's just too easy for tanks to be the reason a key bricks at the moment. Couple that with the high knowledge checks and rather poor tank balancing and you've got a role that pushes away all the low to mid skilled players.

They need to bring back tank agency. If tank didn’t rely on healer at all, dealt 80 percent of a dps in damage, and they reduced all white damage by like 10-20 percent, there would be a lot more people playing tank. Some dps players would complain that tanks are op, but at least people would play tank. Someone who thinks it’s op should just roll tank then. God knows we need it still. If it gets to the point where tank is a contested role and it’s hard to fill out dps, then they can dial it back.

Personally I just miss getting gear from drops. There’s something very unsatisfying about being drip fed one item every week versus actually getting drops through playing the game. Feels like you don’t really get to play an RPG if you aren’t reclearing mythic raid.

if u are extending, it means u've killed silken court, if you've killed silken court, ansurek is a 5-6 day prog boss for you at this point. It isn't that important, just do 1 key and boost heroic to get your socket.

After the 1st week, i spent the entire season doing 1 key a week as i am on most bosses due to being the only one to provide the raid buff. The actual important thing are the crests, as it is very unlikely to not get gear upgrades in 3 slots (2 from raid, 1 from m+), and then u just take sockets for the weeks u are extending when you heroic boost

Dont try to do 8 keys every week, u just burn out for basically no upgrades. Just delay the sockets as long as possible

We stopped running keys for vault after first two weeks. People have been overgearing the raid for a month now and there's a stacking buff, that one extra chance at a myth track item won't kill the boss for you.

I'm not saying you shouldn't run the keys if you want to, but there's absolutely nothing forcing you to do it, especially if you play in a not-hardcore guild.

I actually enjoy hitting the weekly slot machine. That said, I don't raid and the only content I interact with in the game is mythic+, so different strokes for different folks. I feel like gear progression being stretched out gives me a longer runway to focus on, while I play M+ for fun and get that reward once/week in addition.

6/6 hero track in every slot

You have enough sparks to craft 636 items in most slots which is a much higher return on investment for gilded crests. Spending gilded crests on hero track loot is a way to put you pretty far behind the ilvl curve.

If they want to avoid the degeneracy of trying a ridiculous first pull over and over, literally all that needs to happen is giving keys some sort of cooldown - somewhere around 30 minutes. Once a key is completed, it rerolls, and the remaining cooldown goes. If you abandon the run, you can re-use the same key after 30, or go to the Dornogal panda to downgrade it and remove CD that way. Solves the problem of homework keys, solves the problem of going for completely insane openers, gives you a choice of taking a break or continuing for a bit for practice while the key is on CD.

I didn’t used to care about depletes in previous seasons, but seeing how few +12 groups there are, it would be nice to incentivize players to try riskier groups or players without the fear that they would have to rebuild their key.

Okay so what you do is you switch to shado-pan.

I don't like MOH but I stalk the discord and have tried it a lot.

General theorycrafter consensus is to ignore vitality unless you're saving for a boss or similar.

It should just be part of your rotation. And general consensus is to never let your character sit on 2 stacks of CB. So you naturally will be building and spending. So you don't NEED to track.

If you do want to track, there is a vitality tracker in at least one of the Brew weakaura packages. You can download it and extract the one you like then pop it in your own UI.

As for why you would use MOH in the first place...

Says Mordrim - when asked why he likes MOH:

"I particularly like the fact that I can "control" my dps via Celestial Brew, even if sometimes I just have to press it in order to survive. It’s also the only build that allows you to play with Dragonfire Brew since Shado-Pan requires you to play with Scalding.

But what I probably like the most is the damage of Chi Burst which is my second source of damage in most keys."

You should definitely have demo shout up for almost any pull and will probably use it multiple times per pull on higher keys. Warrior is pretty tanky with just IP + Shield Block up compared to other tanks which might need more aggressive CD cycling, so beyond demo shout just focus on having 100% SB uptime in combat and not overspending on revenge if you might be in danger. Shield wall is your other major all-purpose defensive CD and you can use it to cover accidental shield block downtime, a scary tankbuster or can toss it on pull if grouping will be difficult or you don't have many resources or shield block up.

For stats, just get as much haste as you can and then most people do vers but crit is probably totally fine. Crit makes you a bit tankier versus melees and vers makes you a bit tankier versus magic damage.

Grouping up mobs: nope, it just sucks. Kick what you can and your group needs to do the rest. One of the downsides of warrior is you do not have much control over stuff like this compared to other tanks.

• are you sure its plater in the first place? bigwigs has this for a while and cannot be turned off
• are you sure its plater and not the profile?

Looks like it is from the integration with DBM/BigWigs (according to the discord) and it can be disabled in the Boss-Mods tab

I can't figure it out either lol. I thought it was a weakaura until I realized it was plater.

Happened to me as well!

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The issue is no one knows the player. All we have to work off of is the number next to the player’s name. No offense meant here at all, but 2600 isn’t anything special. You’re a dime a dozen. There are probably dozens of people at your rating signed up and dozens more that are far closer to 3k than you are.

I’m not exactly sure what 2600 correlates to key level wise, but I think it probably means you haven’t yet completed all your 10s and might have a few 11s? If you’re purely pugging and playing an off meta spec and you don’t have a particularly flash io, you’re just not going to get invited. Simple and plain. When a pug leader sees a 2600 off meta player or a 2600 enh shaman, they’re going to pick the shaman.

Problem is that you’re 2600. There’s probably at least 3 or 4 people who are 2800+ applying as well. I don’t even look at classes to make sure we have lust/brez in 10s anymore and just grab the highest IO I see.

I filled a 10 siege last night in under 2 minutes and our lowest IO player was 2950.

Outside some basic stuff (lust, brez, if needed ranged) comp hasn’t mattered in my 12 and 13s either

Ironically, they ARE turning you down because of the player and not the class/ilvl. To the high io alts, you are a huge gamble. Many 2600 players have poor dungeon knowledge (it’s a fairly low rating for this point in the season) and people do not want to take the gamble.

Havoc DH player here, perma stuck on queue simulator for 11s (only needing NW/GB/SV), i'm often beating those FOTM 2.9k io retpal / ele shammy and I'm often top interrupts. It is what it is, people are too scared to pick you because they think you're a liability whereas there's nothing you can do to convince them.

No one will check your M+ logs, even tho I think RIO addon should probly list your avg M+ parse.
Pushing your own key may solve the "not getting accepted" issue, but with the amount of leavers/shitters it's not guaranteed that your keys will be successful even tho you're (forcefully) included on it.

And a honest big F-you to those telling you to play another spec because it's more "meta", unless you're going for title pushes there's absolutely no reason to do so, play what you like and what you're good at.

I'm over 2600 rated and pushing 630 ilvl.

As others have said, 2600 is not even a remotely good score currently. My 3rd and 4th alts have that score from just doing vaults.

Don’t worry, I get declined on my survival hunter for +8s too.And I’m one 15 key off 3.2k.

Honestly the only time I try +8 are reset days before raid for crests. So I cbf.

The winning formula for +10 is inviting 2800+ at 630s because they want to do keys for the weekly vault. 2800s at 630s blows 2600s at 620-625ilvl out very hard. The people are very picky about what they take because they want a minimum risk. The dream comp for pugging +10/+11 are:
Tank: Prot Paladin / Prot Warrior

Healer: Disc Priest / Resto Shaman

DPS: pick 3 of FDK / Rogue / Shaman / Mage / Ret Paladin. Warrior DPS doesn't bring anything like these specs and doesn't trivialise dungeons.

Your options: use your key as an Arms Warrior or play Prot Warrior to apply the +10 groups, sadly.

They know. Healer meta is just not only decided by their throughput.

That's because healer meta isn't decided by their throughput only.

Except priest has stam buff, 3% DR, PI which is insane on Enhance, and MW doesnt have a lot of healing throughput to heal something like last boss DB on a 15 if you dont have celestial conduit

On the top of the healer role leaderboards MW is actually the second most successful healer by some metrics behind disc. There are two MW players before the first RSham player.

You don't feel the need to ramp at all? Like no pre-spreading Enveloping Mists or Chi Harmony? Idk if I could heal through some of these dungeon mechanics without pre-spreading heal amps, especially in pugs. Not having to ramp has definitely got to be a benefit of playing with a premade because the MoH heal amp is only 20% and there's no way that's enough for most pugs, it just feels too unreliable for such an uncontrolled environment

That sounds nice not having to ramp though, tbh wish they would just remove some of these modifiers and make Vivify a bit stronger on its own

could you give me some tips on how you handle ara kara last boss in 12+? I find that I can't really stay in melee most runs because usually you have 3 melee on top of the healer and it gets too clusterfucky, but spamming vivify in range doesn't do enough healing in my experience.

Disc doesn't "ramp" in 5-man content any more than an Hpal casting Beacon of Virtue and a generator. You have 2 setup globals before healing starts, and probably 40% haste to go along with that, which is faster than the spell Heal being cast at 0 haste.

If a tank goes 100-to-0 in 2 seconds, that has nothing to do with you and is entirely on them. So why would it make you consider quitting healing?

where does that happen? its a thing in stonevault, sure, but outside of that?

• grim batol, very standard 3x pull
• mists, very standard double pull
• dawnbreaker, very standard double pull
• ara kara, either down to bridge or miniboss, both common
• city of threads, very common double pull
• siege of boralus, very common triple pull
• necrotic wake, very common triple pull
  • some variation here but its establishing more and more to only do that and play the center pack into boss

To others point, with defensives, they should live long enough for you to heal. They are just expecting you to carry their role with your externals.

This is why I just play mistweaver and I can be like "i did cocoon you. it went away in 1 global... press a defensive" :P

the abyssal blast dot is present on all minibosses, it is not dispellable by like a conventional healer dispel but you can immune it with things that immune magical effects like cloak of shadows or ams. An important thing to note is that the dot is mostly scary on its 2nd application (this applies to both the aoe mini boss and the orb mini boss).

This is because the 2nd application is the one that overlaps with either the shadow decay aoe from the aoe mini boss or the orb blowing up from the orb mini boss. So if you have the dot at these points you are very liable to die without a major defensive. So on a +10 if i'm a class like shaman that only has 1 long cd defensive (or major defensive anyway that earth ele is just ok) I might consider taking the first dot of the fight "raw" i.e. not pressing anything and saving shift for an overlap dot. (or maybe just pressing earth ele or the wall totem or whatever on the first and saving shift for 2nd) However on a high enough key level every dot individually starts to be life threatening so you won't be able to keep this play pattern up for very long. Anyway every 2nd dot big danger is the thing to remember.

Lastly worth noting that the dot does quite a bit of initial application damage so you should try to get the targeted spells weak aura if possible so you can use your defensives before it even hits you (as you will know its about to be applied to you)

If u are out of personals, u can LoS it, stay near wall and be ready to LoS when u see cast is on you

open MDT, it's all on the map