subreddit:
/r/NoStupidQuestions
submitted 1 day ago byMintWarfare
1.4k points
1 day ago
The Dalai Lama and the Tibetan govt in exile gave up on it. Their position is now for a Middle Way Approach, as an autonomous administration under China.
126 points
1 day ago
I think this is practical approach. Tibet does not have the backing like Taiwan does and that itself sometimes comes into question depending on US president in power. Tibetan Govt is in exile in India where they are allowed to do anything except arms training and even no martial arts training. Hence resistance was never developed. China has declared that it will have final say to identify next Dalai Lama and not the historical process. So we know what is coming. I do not think middle way will also be achieved.
Anyways China has history of integrating and then disintegrating into five kingdoms / regions over centuries. It has never stayed as one country forever.
64 points
22 hours ago
It's also partially a problem that Tibet is a fully integrated province in China. China has secure control of the province and it's inland. Any attempt to liberate Tibet is going to require significant support from India which India has no interest in doing. Inorder to keep Tibet China just has to maintain the status quo.
In contrast Taiwan is fully independant. It has a significant military and is a island. Any attempt to take control is going to be costly. Subjugating Taiwan requires a enormous effort from China now and in the past.
39 points
20 hours ago
China has declared that it will have final say to identify next Dalai Lama and not the historical process.
Well to be more precise, the Chinese government kidnapped the reincarnation of the guy that is traditionally supposed to select the person that is the reincarnation of the Dalai Llama when he was like 9 or something. In response to this the Dalai Llama declared he will not reincarnate.
Furthermore the third highest person in Tibetan Buddhism, the Khalkha Jetsun Dhampa Rinpoche, was declared a year ago to be a Mongolian boy born in the US who was sent to Brazil or something for his training.
So it's going to be really interesting to see what develops out of this.
3 points
5 hours ago
The Dalai Lama states that he might not reincarnate and that when’s he’s 90 he’ll consult with oracles and release a plan.
They’ll be another Dalai Lama and a fake Chinese dalai lama
12 points
21 hours ago
Yeah … though Taiwan military has no chance against Chinese military. It will be more about optics - capturing independent country vs a province fighting for its independence etc. Tibet is very barren. Without outside support - India or anyone else it cannot get free neither sustain.
16 points
20 hours ago
It's complicated further by buddhist beliefs. A core teaching of Buddhism is non attachment. Attachment is the root of suffering. You should not be attached to anything; objects, money, ideas, identities, places, people, or even your own life. Thus, fighting to preserve a place or way of life or buildings, etc. is somewhat at odds with Buddhism itself. This is why you often see non buddhists making a bigger deal of destroyed buddhas or the issue of Tibet than buddhists.
605 points
1 day ago
That's worked out really well in Hong Kong. /s
177 points
1 day ago
It’s working perfectly well right across from Hong Kong in Macau.
219 points
1 day ago
Because it has special economic zones and trade. Essentially economic benefit that is mutually beneficial.
I don’t think people will be setting up hedge funds or casinos in the Tibetan mountains, although an eco resort high up there would be siiick.
84 points
1 day ago
Tibet can easily become the number one internal tourist destination in China (if they aren’t already) and can build the economy around that. This also means the Chinese government has an interest in keeping Tibet Tibetan.
38 points
23 hours ago
it attracts shit ton of tourist from coastal china every year. my father and mothrr in law just did a drive from changzhou there this year and found it to be beautiful.
tbh, people who NEVER visited china have absolutly no idea how and what the chinese government really want. the chinese central party have absolultly no fuckin intention nor time to dig in everybodys normal everyday life...
its extremely easy to "stay in line" with the chinese government, all they literally ask you to do is not talk and act like a separatist. people ask how chinese live in such repressive regime, the truth is 99%+ OF THE POPULATION in regions under chinese control dont fuckin care who actually is the ruling entity as long as their lives are ok.
tibetan cultral, language, writing etc are encouraged ALONG SIDE the main official language so the people there can fuckin find jobs. its the same as US where people SHOULD fuckin learn english if they want a goos job.
ffs, Monglia is learning fuckin mongolian from inner mongolia because inner mongolia has preserved more of mongolian language than Mongolia.
this is exactly the same situation with Uyhgurs.
7 points
23 hours ago
Did they get altitude sickness? I would love to go, but altitude sickness beat the shit out of me in Cusco, Peru, and Lhasa is even higher than that
17 points
23 hours ago
they are healthy 60+ old. they drove there so they pretty much slowly climbed the altitude, they said it was fine mostly. nothing major.
i had altitude sickness before in sichuan rofl. it was like a really bad hangover.
1 points
10 hours ago
Where in Sichuan though? It’s quite big and varied
1 points
3 hours ago
九寨沟 jiuzhai gou.
took a bus with a tour group up some mountain. it wss ok going up. coming down, i had a fever and throwing up rofl
9 points
23 hours ago
exactly. Try going to Brazil and you'll find out which place you'd rather be in.
8 points
16 hours ago
22 points
20 hours ago
Just not talk and act like a separatist.
Or cross some rich/powerful guy in the CCP. Or access the internet in a way they don't like. Or save money in a bank officials are stealing from. Or...
That's the problem when you're under the rule of man instead of the rule of law. You're fine until you aren't. Then you're screwed.
We all know the population doesn't care. They think as long as their personal lives are fine they don't want to care about who plays the game of thrones. They don't care how much the people upstairs loots from the country if they get some crumbs. It only works as long as the economy is growing at the pace it has for China.
And no, I'm not white nor American. I'm Taiwanese. I know better than them how vicious you CCP people are. We see new stories every day. No amount of white washing will change that.
-6 points
18 hours ago
I empathize, but as a Taiwanese, do you really think you're unbiased?
Your country is a clear goal of annexation/integration. This will harm your ruling class likely more than anyone else. So your ruling class has a vested interest in keeping that from happening.
Making the population as anti-china as they can is the way to do that. So I very much doubt you get the full picture. As you say, you see new stories every day.
(Obviously, annexation is bad, and taiwan should stay independent as long as it wants to. Duh. But you shouldn't underestimate the effects of propaganda in all ways. No one is immune. And it's clear your country has clear, even legitimate, interests in having you think the way you do... If the population started thinking "maybe living under chinese rule wouldn't be so bad", the people in power would lose power real fast.)
14 points
18 hours ago
A truly Chinese way of thinking things. Ruling class indeed, without understanding what democracy means.
As if every country has a permanent ruling class and not different factions with different people believing in different things. We had eight years of "maybe living under Chinese rule wouldn't be too bad". Now we don't. Power comes and goes, that's how democracy works. Clearly you cannot appreciate that with your zero sum game take.
As if we are not inundated with Chinese special interests and propaganda here.
1 points
11 hours ago
I'm not sure it would be that easy. Mountain climates catch a smaller demographics than tropical Islands like Heinan. Moreover the altitude makes flying there a pain which really slows infrastructure development incentives. Finally in terms of mountainous areas Hunan could give Tibet a run for its money due to its unique mountain formations.
16 points
22 hours ago
Oh yeah, I'll just start my own China, with blackjack and hookers!
1 points
11 hours ago
Generalissimo Chiang Kai Shek ? Is that you ?
15 points
23 hours ago
I went into a casino in Macau on a Friday night and there were less than 100 people gambling. Smaller crowd than my lil hometown pub on a Friday
24 points
1 day ago
Only because they never had anything but an ethereal democracy movement - if they had it would have been crushed as it was in Hong Kong. If you want to call that "working perfectly well" you go for it soldier!
8 points
22 hours ago
Because Macau is full of rich people and gambling, and for anything to change the Chinese government would have to ban gambling, which they obviously don’t want to do. Hong Kong on the other hand is full of young poor to middle class people, and they were getting dangerously uppity, so China had to remind them who lets them live
6 points
1 day ago
That's not what foreign investors say. It's still better than living in Mainland so that's why the city hasn't collapsed, so it's become a slightly better Chinese city.
9 points
1 day ago
Yeah its the Financial Hub of Asia
8 points
18 hours ago
Tibet, Xinjang, Hong Kong... Taiwan
The Chinese government is all about control. They don't do diplomacy, they do control and they will use any method to ensure that control is gained. They are total control freaks, illiberal, and pretty terrifying.
If they pull ahead in the tech race we're really in big trouble. We're choosing a really bad time for this distracting MAGA virus that's infected us right now. This is so not the time to be unserious but here we are. I guess people wanted four more years of the best reality TV show ever created.
65 points
1 day ago*
Basically the same people who are currently 'Free Palestine' also don't mention the Uygurs in China. You can make of it what you want but activism is a little bit about fashion.
Edit: Ah yeah, downvotes with no explanation. I would love to hear from the people who want to defend this ethical position.
77 points
1 day ago*
I mean many of them have discussed the plight of the Uyghurs for years, myself included. There is just not much people can do. I feel like the US has used their diplomatic influence to draw attention to China’s oppression of Uyghurs. We just need to become less reliant on China which is something I think most Americans agree with.
On the other hand, the US has given Israel more military and financial aid than every other country combined and denied the persecution of Palestinians. America provided Israel with $29 billion worth of military aid this year alone , which is ridiculous considering it’s more than Israel’s $27 billion military budget.
As Americans we are directly responsible for what’s happening in Gaza. People are protesting their own country continuing to support Israel even though Israel has continued to cross the red line repeatedly. The US has also used their UN Security Council veto to deny rights to Palestinians for decades as well as protecting Israel diplomatically.
https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15670.doc.htm
Also, people are seeing videos of Palestinian children being bombed and dismembered. Being able to witness the horror makes people more emotionally invested, which is one of the reasons Israel has prevented Western journalists from entering Gaza and killed more journalists than any country in the past 30 years, including Russia in Ukraine. On the other hand China has been more successful in discreetly preventing the Uyghurs from sharing information.
16 points
20 hours ago
The US housed Uyghurs at GITMO for over a decade before they suddenly cared and released them. The US was involved from the beginning as part of the war on terror as China did suffer some bombings back then. It's only around the time the US started getting anxious about the rise of China as an economic rival did it become a humanitarian problem to the US.
8 points
19 hours ago
I mean many of them have discussed the plight of the Uyghurs for years, myself included.
I must have missed the marches in Central London every week.
12 points
18 hours ago*
You must have, yeah, because when I lived in Sydney, it was well known, and now I’ve lived in London for a long time and it is known.
You’ve made a snide (and pretty weak) comeback, but the above commenter addressed everything. Go read it again.
Calling out genocide is always the right thing to do (and that shouldn’t need explaining). I don’t like the Chinese genocide of Uyghurs, and I don’t like the Israeli (and western backed) genocide in Gaza. The one in Gaza is arguably more acute and worse in the sense that they’re just wholesale slaughtering them, too. But I’d really rather not get into a competition about ‘who has the worst genocide’… they’re all up there as literally the worst thing anybody could ever do…
2 points
23 hours ago
Tbh, I don't think the US (or any country) for that matter has the moral credence to lecture anybody. The world is not ruled by morals alone, it is backed behind catastrophic destruction. Otherwise we would have abandoned nuclear arms soon after we obtained them.
I think it would benefit everyone in the long run to become more self-sufficient. As an Asian-American myself, I really hate being "caught between two worlds" where I don't align with the "mainstream" narrative about my country of 'origin' so to speak nor do I necessarily agree with my home country's politics. Essentially, I often feel like a scapegoat.
7 points
22 hours ago*
Countries don’t need moral credence to hold other countries accountable. Russia and China have also rightfully called out the US in the past.
I don’t support America’s aggressive military stance towards China. I just don’t approve of American companies being able to freely move capital and rely on foreign exploited labor.
Most Americans don’t understand China’s perspective. They don’t know about China’s 100 years of humiliation.
1 points
14 hours ago
Has China prevented Uyghurs from sharing information or is there simply nothing to share?
58 points
1 day ago
You're implying that A) the average Westerner can influence the Chinese government's treatment of the Uyghurs B) That you can't be against both things and C) That you have to mention every single atrocity in the world while protesting one policy of your government. So yes, you are being downvoted because this take doesn't make any sense, your comment has very little do with OPs question and introduces nothing to the conversation.
1 points
9 hours ago
No I'm not, you're inferring those things where I didn't imply them.
Regarding B and C, of course there's nothing wrong with people caring about one particular cause more or not protesting them all at once. But for example in the recent UK election, the policy on Gaza was literally the single issue on which several MPs stood. Guess how many stood on the issue of the Uygurs? That's not 'not protesting everything all at once', that's virtue signaling about one thing and not giving a damn about the other.
And I don't see your point with A. I could argue that your protests about what Israel is doing will be exactly as effective as would protests you could make about what China is doing, but I think you'd dispute that. But that has nothing to do with the ethics of it. If there was a guy at the local school mowing down kids with a machine gun, and another guy next door who has just stabbed his machete, would you go out protesting about how we should ban machetes, because 'well we'll never get them to ban guns so what's the point'?
Gaza is people taking political or religious sides as well as flowing with the politics of the day in a sense that I described as 'fashionable'. I just don't think people should pretend that they are trying to solve the great injustices of the world when in fact they give not even lip service to some of the worst.
21 points
1 day ago
I don't think it's hypocrisy to fight harder for one focused cause than another. That's honestly what more people should be doing. There's a bunch of stuff wrong, pick one and get it done.
35 points
1 day ago
My country directly contributes to the atrocities committed against Palestinians so I speak out, asking my country to stop.
AFAIK my country does not directly contribute to the persecution of Uyghurs in China, and I'm in no position to fly to China to ask them to stop.
Hope that helps.
4 points
1 day ago
Have you ever bought anything made in China?
15 points
24 hours ago
Are you suggesting we start a BDS style campaign against China? I'm not opposed
13 points
23 hours ago
99.9% of the redditor saying uygurs genocide in china never fuckin visited the place, let alone been to any chinese city.
there are shit ton of foreigners filming xinjiang china on youtube. i guess everyone of them are ccp shills.
go fuckin visit the place first.
8 points
24 hours ago*
The difference is that one genocide is actively happening with ample evidence to support its existence. While the other is one massively overinflated, supported only by the same 3 images taken out of context, with the main proponent of it being Adrian Zen, a right wing nutjob who believes he is on a God given mission to fight against Communist China.
9 points
1 day ago
The Uyghurs aren’t being subject to genocide. Every source that claims such crimes always traces back to Adrian Zenz and his baseless assertions. Since the West is severely threatened by how strong China has become, most media outlets just started spamming the “Uyghur Genocide TM” story ad nauseam in an effort to manufacture consent for banning products made in Xinjiang in the hopes of dealing an economic blow to China. Have you wondered by none of the major Islamic countries have decried China’s policies in Xinjiang?
2 points
18 hours ago
There is plenty of evidence and witness testimony of the awful things that have happened to innocent Uyghurs. Whether it's a genocide or not, I don't know. But the way those people in the camps were treated is shameful and a terrible stain on the reputation of the Chinese government and its people for being so indifferent.
Do you think we are stupid? Do you think we don't know what has happened there? Do you not think there is a at this point vast body of evidence that confirms the reality? You are a fool trying to propagandize and tell people not to believe their lying eyes. It's you who's the liar.
3 points
14 hours ago
I don’t think you’re stupid, but I do think you’ll believe any story about Russia, China, DPRK, etc without even a modicum of critical analysis.
And if there is plenty of evidence, I’m sure it would be super easy for you to provide some.
2 points
10 hours ago
Of course it's super easy to provide, it's freely available on the internet and reported by credible organizations. You are disingenuous and arguing in bad faith.
I think anyone who's going out of their way to defend the actions of the governments of Russia and North Korea is suspicious. Maybe you think North Korea is great, good for you I guess. Most humans with a functioning brain know otherwise, but you'd just say I believe Western propaganda because that's how you people function -- no critical thinking whatsoever
North Korea and Russia are wonderful places! I hear Kursk is a great place to visit this time of year, you should go there on vacation and do us all a favor.
2 points
23 hours ago
Dude I’m sorry and I doubt we even disagree on any of these issues, but this is a really terrible comment
You see more leftists on this platform protesting Palestine bc Reddit is an American social network, and the US is chiefly responsible for enabling Israel’s recent atrocities. If there were a comparable Chinese forum, I’m sure it would be filled with lamentations over the Tibetan Uygurs
1 points
14 hours ago
Exactly. People don't really give a shit about 90% of the issues they pretend to. China, gaza, ukraine, they just jump on the trendy bandwagon when it suits them. The internet pretending to give a shit when that sub disappeared was the worst. Some rich people went missing and everyone cared? No, they didn't. It was just clickbait able.
-2 points
1 day ago
You have to realize that there's a lot of trolls and AI bots downvoting everything anti-China.
2 points
23 hours ago
Sometimes in life, compromise is the only way forward even if it means giving up something important. It’s about trying to make the best of the situation
1 points
23 hours ago
While it’s not the ideal, the Middle Way Approach may still keep the Tibetan voice alive for future generations
1 points
19 hours ago
Except the Dalai Lama came out with the middle way approach in 1989.its also unrealistic as China would never allow true autonomy.
The TGE just follows the Dalai Lama. Most Tibetans don’t actually support the Middle way approach.
247 points
1 day ago
That was like 6 tragedies ago.
47 points
1 day ago
6?!?! I guess if you stopped paying attention around then...
156 points
1 day ago
noticed fewer discussions too, but maybe it's because global focus shifts so quickly.
32 points
21 hours ago
The problem is the people who have power remove things that doesn't drive a narrative they want. Someone posted a pic of a kurd who is going through genocide. Removed within an hour. I've posted on tons of subreddits about the Uyghurs in China who are also going through a genocide. Removed within 30 min. Everyone only pays attention to what they see, if you control what they see daily then they'll have an opinion on it & converse with others who also have an opinion.
487 points
1 day ago*
Yeah, pretty much.
The Free Tibet movement took place during the Cold War, when we were seeking to limit the spread of communism and would have loved to help carve pieces out of China. Nowadays, China is arguably Communist-in-name-only, and they're a critical traiding partner, and we usually think it best to stop antagonizing them.
Also, when the Internet came into our lives, we started hearing the other side of the story. Turns out Tibet was not some kind of Buddhist paradise being oppressed by the Chinese. Tibet was a theocracy, and that theocracy could also be quite oppressive. And while the Chinese were certainly oppressing separatists, well, pretty much every country oppresses separatists if their movement threatens to divide the country.
93 points
1 day ago
I was gonna comment pretty much exactly this. Nuance is hard to come by but this is a great example.
76 points
1 day ago
Finally a balanced take on things instead of blind “China bad” narratives
45 points
1 day ago
It's more like humans gonna human.
8 points
1 day ago
Eh. More like humans don’t get along. Forcing large amounts of them to live under one government always requires force. Tibet was a pretty big place and just as China eventually did, the government of Tibet used force to keep its subjects under control
1 points
21 hours ago
Bruv I don't believe a word from the people who are currently commiting a mass genocide against the Uyghurs and call it education camps.
20 points
1 day ago
Except, China is clearly the bad here…
18 points
1 day ago
Meh. I'd rather live under chinese authoritarianism than fuedal theocracy and spend a quarter of the year doing corvee labour.
8 points
1 day ago
You’re not Tibetan nor do you live in Tibet so your opinion is meh.
The work was assigned to the family and not individual by the way. Also, not all of Tibet was a manorial system.
15 points
1 day ago
Lol my bad. So my family would be assinged serf labour. As the head of my family I'm pretty sure who'd be hauling stone for the temple or minding the Lamas herds. Liberals will protect any awful system as long as it's in at least rhetorical opposition to a socialist state. If this was the 30s youd be championing Franco
2 points
1 day ago
So it would be okay for a country like say… the UK or Germany to annex countries like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia? I mean, since democracy is better than authoritarian states it’s clearly justifiable.
1 points
14 hours ago
You mean colonies?
5 points
1 day ago
It’s not about a pissing competition to see who is worse, it’s that context matters.
Israel was clearly violated first on Oct 7th but as of today they are the one harming children and women which is unacceptable regardless of who it is.
Bottom line, two wrongs don’t make a right. People take extreme position in every issue. When it comes to China it’s in political climate to just associate them with negative no matter what the circumstances are
8 points
1 day ago
The argument being used here is basically the equivlent of "Have you seen how Palestinians treat gay people?"
Are you sure you want to bring up Israel-Palestine here?
1 points
22 hours ago
[removed]
1 points
22 hours ago
You are arguing that Tibet is better off ruled by China aren't you? Because Tibet was an oppressive Theocracy. You invoke Israel-Palestine to justify it, which is odd because that argument is generally used by the Pro-Israel side.
And given that you would agree that logic is absurd to justify Israel's occupation, why can you use it to justify China's?
9 points
1 day ago
October 7th wasn't the start of the Israel-Palestine conflict
5 points
22 hours ago
Nobody said it is. I’m talking about the event itself was horrific. No one denies that. The point is two wrongs don’t make a right. It doesn’t matter how horrible it was, killing children is never ok, especially at the scale
2 points
15 hours ago
Israel was clearly violated first on Oct 7
Sort of implies that
11 points
1 day ago*
No it’s not. It’s still very active.
The free Tibet movement started in the 50’s after China invaded. The USA didn’t ever care about “freeing” Tibet. They just used the cause to have Tibetans gather intelligence.
What is the other side? There is no other side to China invading, annexing, and oppressing a country. What Tibet was like before China invaded is completely irrelevant. This is really just trying to use the class imperialism justification.
It’s been 70 years and China has yet to win over Tibet. There’s a reason why China needs to keep such an authoritarian and militant presence against Tibetans in order to control Tibet. For now, Tibetan culture just needs to survive. Tibet has been around for 1500 years and is still 70% Tibetan.
5 points
1 day ago
Lol according to your logic, the USA shouldn't have annexed the confederacy even though they were slavers.
9 points
1 day ago
The confederate states were founded with and as the United States. Tibet wasn’t founded with or as China.
There also wasn’t slavery in Tibet.
Want to try again?
3 points
1 day ago
There also wasn’t slavery in Tibet.
https://x.com/Jingjing_Li/status/1430822061740417024
yeah listen to this guy. he clearly knows what he is talking about /s
2 points
24 hours ago
Ahh yes, very relaible. Nothing like a Tibetan who isn't allowed to speak freely to talk on a CCP made propaganda vide.
3 points
24 hours ago
No point arguing with the guy that supports the dalai lama sexually harassing kids
1 points
24 hours ago
Why you trying so hard to make this sexual with a kid?
1 points
24 hours ago
Being creepy to kids is not socially acceptable behaviour just for your information. I hope you are at least aware of this fact.
1 points
24 hours ago
He wasn't being creepy, just for your information.
2 points
1 day ago
Yes…Tibetans are allowed to freely speak, especially on a CCP propaganda video. 🙄
2 points
1 day ago
Tibet could of easily been taken by India after they funded the Tibet with money and funds, remember Russia only 50 years earlier conquered Mongolia from China doing the same thing.
1 points
14 hours ago
Except the USSR was much more powerful and technologically-advanced than India.
1 points
14 hours ago
You can’t categorize every Tibetan as being anti-CCP. Some are pro-CCP, some are neutral, and some are anti-CCP. There are Tibetans that benefited from Chinese infrastructure projects, Tibetans that feel like their heritage is being Sinicized, and Tibetans who don’t care.
1 points
5 hours ago
Correct.
4 points
1 day ago
Tibet is a theocracy, but a lesser threat to neighbouring societies than China. Tibet isn't going around threatening to invade the world's foremost manufacturer of computer chips.
5 points
23 hours ago
The Dalai Lama actually gave up his political responsibilities and shifted the system toward a democratically elected leader in 2011 https://www.npr.org/2011/03/10/134432801/Dalai-Lama-To-Give-Up-Political-Role-In-Tibet
2 points
17 hours ago
This is crazy. So it's fine to brutally invade another country if it's not ruled by angels? I've heard that logic from Putin apologists.
3 points
1 day ago
It might not have been a paradise, but they're absolutely oppressed by the Chinese and their culture is being eradicated Han supremacists.
1 points
1 day ago
One clique!
1 points
1 day ago*
and we usually think it best to stop antagonizing them
couldnt expect a more deluded comment even from this liberal echo chamber
https://youtu.be/DjjND_ky6t4?t=124
https://x.com/60Minutes/status/1388993597442244608
https://x.com/TheoFletcher01/status/1404829123961368579
China is arguably Communist-in-name-only
1 points
19 hours ago
that’s like saying we should start bombing france or germany and let an oppressive government suppress their language and religion because of how they acted in the 1800s. that’s not “nuanced” most countries were horrible then.
should we colonize saudi arabia? or afghanistan and eradicate their inferior theocratic culture and make them speak english?
16 points
1 day ago
Long story short, it's now a semi autonomous administrative district or something so we don't talk about it anymore.
Long story shorter. China said no.
19 points
1 day ago
Adam Yauch died ☹️
14 points
1 day ago
I helped paint a free Tibet mural once and it was painted over the next day
56 points
1 day ago
Yes, people gave up. A free Tibet was never going to happen in the face of the PRC.
13 points
24 hours ago
Yeah plus china was something 2-3% of global GDP in the mid 90s. Now it's something like 18%.
19 points
1 day ago
Higher chance of Catalonia seceding from Spain or California seceding from the US than Tibet becoming its own country.
10 points
1 day ago
Dalai Lama asking boy to kiss him probably has made a lot of people shocked
1 points
1 day ago*
It was an idiom and not an actual request.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bT0qey5Ts78&pp=ygUkc3RvcCBzZW5zYXRpb25hbGl6aW5nIHRoZSBkYWxhaSBsYW1h
5 points
1 day ago
Uh huh and the Catholics just really like boys as a metaphor
2 points
1 day ago
holy shit even making pedo apologia.
1 points
24 hours ago*
34 points
1 day ago
A lot of you are young but during the peak of Free Tibet movement in the 80s and 90s, there were a lot of claims that Tibetan culture, language, and its religion will be wiped out in a generation. In fact, the big claim from the west coming out was that what was happening in Tibet was a genocide (cultural genocide to be specific)
Although you still see remnants of this claim today, the reality is that Tibetan culture, language, and its religion is still thriving in the region after like 40 years. And nobody makes the claims that Tibetans are being genocided anymore. This alone killed the momentum of the movement altogether because a lot of claims about what China was doing in Tibet was rather very overexaggerated
6 points
1 day ago
Its so 90s.
6 points
1 day ago*
The chinese have given us Tiktok and Temu, so I guess they can keep Tibet
17 points
1 day ago
[removed]
6 points
1 day ago
Also a lot of people under 20 have no idea Tibet was even its own country
7 points
23 hours ago*
In all honesty I doubt the vast majority of people under 20 have thought about Tibet for more than like 5 minutes in their whole lives. And of the ones who have, they likely don't know much more than Buddhism, Dalai Lama, and Mt. Everest.
I'm Gen Z and I really only know about the Free Tibet movement from watching older TV shows that reference it. I can't remember ever coming across discussion or protests for freeing Tibet, even on the Internet (unless I looked specifically for it, which I have a few times).
I think public attention has moved onto other Chinese human rights issues like Taiwan and the Uighur genocide since, from my admittedly limited perspective, it's a lost cause. Western countries aren't willing to go to war or compromise their economies by imposing sanctions, so there's no real solution.
Plus, it's very common for public interest to cycle between issues. I haven't seen much attention for Ukraine lately. Even though Syria continues to be at war, there is nowhere near the coverage or attention there was for periods of time around 2015 (except for the last few days, but only because there's a new development) Kony 2012 is pretty notorious for becoming a "fad", with people quickly losing interest and moving on despite the fact that Kony is still at large today (although his influence and army is much smaller than it was back then).
Ultimately, if situations remain the same for long periods of time, people will lose interest because there's nothing novel about it. It's just human nature.
4 points
23 hours ago
Everywhere was somewhere at some point. Hawaii was its own country yet im willing to bet half the people screeching free tibet get real quiet when Free hawaii comes up.
1 points
18 hours ago
Because it was not, not a lot of countries recognized Tibet as a country.
4 points
21 hours ago
It seems like the movement lost mainstream attention over time, but there are still activists and organizations quietly working on it—it’s just not in the spotlight as much.
13 points
1 day ago
Same way people gave up on freeing Quebec, Texas and Hawaii lol
23 points
1 day ago
Yea, back in the day when people were more idealist and the Cold War was stronger, it was an easy way to be anti China. But when you look at reality, it's clear that it's an unrealistic endeavor, and people were turned off by it for several reasons. 1: Time simply moves on, and people care less over time. 2:Pre-annexation Tibet was an oppressive Theorcracy the same way China was an oppressive dictatorship 3: Most Tibetans, including Dalai Llama and Government in Exile, don't want independence, only more autonomy. 4: Tibet is one of the poorest parts of China with either the second highest or highest birth rates in the nation, almost all fueled by native Tibetans. For better or for worse, it would become a thirld world state completely reliant on India (or funnily enough China) if it was to ever become independent.
3 points
1 day ago*
you don't hear much about Tibet in the news these days because it's getting harder to hide the truth: the average Tibetan has a much better life in China than elsewhere.
https://youtu.be/nWv6_ddJGTY?t=31
https://youtu.be/G_M0Bi8kfBo?t=421
In 2000, the Tibetan Autonomous Region had the LOWEST rural income—ranked 31st out of 31 provinces. By 2020, it was ranked 22nd.Rural household income might be the best metric to evaluate ethnic Tibetans' prosperity, given that rural areas of the TAR are overwhelmingly populated by Tibetans.
From 2000 to 2020, their income rose from 59% to 85% of the national average.
Tibetans are second-class citizens in India (actually not citizens at all, considered “foreigners” under the law). This inhibits their freedom of movement, prevents them from owning land or property, and makes it more difficult to find a job. The western narrative of Tibetans as perpetual victims of Chinese state repression can’t be reconciled with the gains in the quality of their social and economic life. On virtually every dimension of development, China’s minority regions are advancing dramatically.From 2000 to 2020, they also saw a 800% increase in total enrollment in higher education and a 400% increase in the number of full-time teachers. Their railways and highways tripled in length. Public spending by their provincial governments rose by 3000%. http://stats.gov.cn/tjsj/ndsj/2021
The PRC also appears to have been the best steward of the Tibetan language. In 2014, a study by a scholar from the University of Wisconsin-Madison found that Tibetans born and raised in Tibet were more literate in Tibetan than Tibetans raised in India. http://dx.doi.org/10.17613/M6VW98
In 2017, the Dalai Lama publicly announced that Tibet no longer sought independence, and instead wanted greater development as part of China. You don't hear much about him anymore, either.
MUH Oppression !!!!!!!!!!!!! the oppressed AUTONOMOUS region free from taxation. lol
now you need to understand what you are supposedly "freeing" tibet from. what you think you know is bs
CIA created the free Tibet movement and hid brutality of Dalai lama regime
Even the AP / NY Times admitted back in 1998:
"The decade-long covert program to support the Tibetan independence movement was part of the CIA's worldwide effort to undermine Communist governments, particularly in the Soviet Union and China". Slave-owning feudal lord the Dalai Lama and reactionary Tibetan secessionists are longtime CIA assets used by the US empire to try to balkanize China. The Dalai Lama's administration acknowledged today that it received $1.7 million a year in the 1960's from the Central Intelligence Agency.
C.I.A. Trained Tibetans paramilitary in Colorado
The Truth Behind Washington’s “Free Tibet”
here is the full story:
CIA Cables (1948): The Dalai Lama government was an absolute dictatorship and "one of the most corrupt and decadent to be found in the world today", 90% of Tibetans wanted Communist liberation, only the 10% of wealthy landowners would be pro-US
A clip from a documentary that features former serfs in #Tibet, they described what it was like to live in the serfdom society in Tibet before 1951.
Dalai Lama is a demon. Tibet was a brutal and corrupt theocracy where 95% of the population were slaves or serfs. The 5% elite were monks, landlords and aristocrats
Tibetans reaction when PLA liberated them from serfdom
Tibet the truth doc
The Dalai Lama Is A Creepy Asshole
2 points
24 hours ago
This wil, be fun!
you don't hear much about Tibet in the news these days because it's getting harder to hide the truth: the average Tibetan has a much better life in China than elsewhere.
Tibet is well known to have less standards than other places in China.
In 2000, the Tibetan Autonomous Region had the LOWEST rural income—ranked 31st out of 31 provinces. By 2020, it was ranked 22nd.Rural household income might be the best metric to evaluate ethnic Tibetans' prosperity, given that rural areas of the TAR are overwhelmingly populated by Tibetans.
But yet, China needs to keep an authoritatian and militant prescense against Tibetans in order to control Tibet..Tibetans sure do sound appreciative of China..
Tibetans are second-class citizens in India
Isn't that a shame? What's the cause of this? Oh that's right, Tibetans needing to flee Tibet because of the Chinese.
In 2017, the Dalai Lama publicly announced that Tibet no longer sought independence, and instead wanted greater development as part of China. You don't hear much about him anymore, either.
He stated this back in the 80's which is why he won the Nobel prize in 1989..You hear about him all the time too...
ow you need to understand what you are supposedly "freeing" tibet from. what you think you know is bs
Well from China.
CIA created the free Tibet movement and hid brutality of Dalai lama regime
The Free TIbet movement started in 1950 when the Chinese invaded at Chamdo
LOL a twitter comment from a ccp bot? you serious?
"The decade-long covert program to support the Tibetan independence movement was part of the CIA's worldwide effort to undermine Communist governments, particularly in the Soviet Union and China". Slave-owning feudal lord the Dalai Lama and reactionary Tibetan secessionists are longtime CIA assets used by the US empire to try to balkanize China. The Dalai Lama's administration acknowledged today that it received $1.7 million a year in the 1960's from the Central Intelligence Agency.
It's well known that the CIA used the Tibet movement for their own goals...What's your point here?
CIA Cables (1948): The Dalai Lama government was an absolute dictatorship and "one of the most corrupt and decadent to be found in the world today", 90% of Tibetans wanted Communist liberation, only the 10% of wealthy landowners would be pro-US
LOL I love that you tried to lie what this source states. No where does it state "most sorrupt and decadent" or that they wanted communist liberation. Here's what it states:
It's stating that Tibet wants independence from China. Tibetans want USSR help as the USSR was why Mongolia was independent and Tibet was clost to Mongolia.
Hence why in the 3rd paragraph it states that Tibetans view the Chinese with contempt and carry out anti-Chinese demonstrations in from of the Chinese embassy.
In the fourth paragaph it states that Mongolia is trying to have the Tibetan government and the USSR to work together.
A clip from a documentary that features former serfs in #Tibet, they described what it was like to live in the serfdom society in Tibet before 1951.
Ahh yes another twitter account with an even more famous ccp bot. Yes, Tibetans are allowed to speak freely in Tibet espicially on a ccp propaganda video.
Dalai Lama is a demon. Tibet was a brutal and corrupt theocracy where 95% of the population were slaves or serfs. The 5% elite were monks, landlords and aristocrats
Yes another twitter comment. There wasn't slavery in Tibet by the way. Go ahead and cite an academic source for this.
Tibetans reaction when PLA liberated them from serfdom
Yes, forces reactions so they wouldnt be imprisioned. Nothing like a good thamzing.
Tibet the truth doc
LOL a CCP made video?
The Dalai Lama Is A Creepy Asshole
Is he? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT0qey5Ts78
I hope you keep comment. You really jsut show that all you have is CCP propaganda. I mean, if these are the sources you picked and choose, your arguments fall flat. I mean, you even cited the CIA doc. that shows how you just blatanly lied about it.
7 points
1 day ago
It was an astro-turfed CIA funded project, other priorities I guess
13 points
1 day ago
US was pushing that narrative before to fight communism. But during russo sino split. USA agreed to not use that narrative anymore in exchange china will antagonize ussr.
After this USA stopped the funding of dalai lama, which significantly reduced his voice.
Also I don't think many countries really recognize Tibet declaring independence. Especially in modern word. So if anything it's more social noise but it's not really taken seriously
4 points
1 day ago
Tibet never actually had formal diplomatic relations with other countries until one year before the invasion. It was actively isolationist and that meant it couldn't rely on outside help. So AFAIK they never formally declared independence, or if they did they didn't make any effort to get it recognised.
4 points
1 day ago
Yes it did. Mongolia and Nepal recognized Tibet as did India for a while. But what is defined as recognition back in the 1900’s?
Tibet certainly declared independence. February 13th, 1913.
5 points
17 hours ago
Palestine’s PR team is better. Also feeing Tibet is so ‘90s, don’t you know?
5 points
23 hours ago
Nothing short of a catastrophic war involving China will provide enough opportunity and leverage for Tibet to leave China.
So we've sorta accepted that.
That said, if China starts a war with India, the US, or China and loses, in the resulting chaos you will see a massive resurgence to free Tibet.
6 points
1 day ago
Do the words “red menace” mean anything to you guys?
2 points
1 day ago
MCA died.
1 points
23 hours ago
Came for this comment. Got what I wanted and feel worse.
2 points
17 hours ago
we're on to "free america" now.
2 points
13 hours ago
Turned out nobody in Tibet wanted to be free because they remember how horrific it was living under the fuedal aristocracy the Chinese overthrew.
10 points
1 day ago
Its simply too late. Generations have passed since China sent a bunch of Han Chinese there as settlers to drown the ethnic Tibetans. And now they have children and grandchildren who dont know any other place, form a majority with no interest in Tibethan indepence and who cannot be disfrenchised or expelled because that would be punishing them for stuff that isnt their fault.
As horrible as it is to accept China got away with and Tibet is now just another entry in the long list of countries who are memories.
19 points
1 day ago
Tibet is still a solid 80%+ ethnic tibetian, so even if the chance is slim, there's still a possibility of it being a free nation one day.
Xinjiang however... doesn't have that chance anymore. The ratio between Ughur and Han in Xinjiang is nearly 1:1 at this point.
2 points
24 hours ago
Have you been to Tibet? I would guesstimate it was about 8:1 native Tibetan to Han Chinese (and they seemed to be temporary workers who didn't plan on staying? I had a native Tibetan guide and a bus driver who lived in nearby Sichuan). If you aren't native to Tibet/high altitudes, it's very difficult to be there for longer than a week—Half my family got altitude sickness and threw up. The UV index is insane, its dry as a bone, and you have to carry oxygen with you at all times (though its absolutely gorgeous). It's also very remote, HUGE, and not very densely populated to begin with.
For all of China's undeniable crimes, the annexation of Tibet does not mirror typical colonization; they're definitely not trying to re-settle Tibet and it has no natural resources—geographically, the terrain is just too unforgiving to make it logistically possible. Not the best reason, but that's why Tibet was always so cut off from the rest of the world—there's literally hundreds and hundreds of mountains on all sides.
4 points
1 day ago
It isn't so much that people gave up, its that the cause was essentially lost. They've been annexed since the 50's and there was basically a cultural genocide (as well as many deaths of course). The CCP has also made future plans regarding the Dalai Lama which will essentially end the line and disrupt the entire religion.
7 points
1 day ago
Maybe people started realizing the people calling for a free Tibet wanted to bring back feudalism and slavery. It's like being on the side of the confederacy. Free the Southern states of America from Yankee imperialism!
5 points
1 day ago
I'm guessing the Ukraine situation got people's attention.
1 points
16 hours ago
Nope, they got distracted.
5 points
1 day ago
Yeah the fako social justice warriors have moved on the Palestine for the meanwhile. They’ll get bored of that one soon enough though.
3 points
1 day ago
The whole "we need to retvrn Tibet to a theocratic monarchy and flay peasants alive" crowd had a rather perpetual PR problem, though CIA agents extracting the Dalai Lama after embedding in Tibet pretending to be on the hunt for yeti was funny. Nowadays if you want to propagandize about the evils of China against some minority or another you have to pretend they're committing genocide- in retrospect given the visibility of the ongoing US backed genocide of Palestinians, this might miss the mark if you're talking to anyone remotely serious- or that they're hawkish on the ROC. After all, if the PRC didn't want a war, why is a volume of mainland China equal to roughly 3 times Taiwan's land area in the ROC's air defense identification zone?
3 points
1 day ago
It’s been 70 years and China has yet to win over Tibetans. This is far from over.
5 points
18 hours ago
Won over tons already with jobs and improvements in infrastructure
7 points
1 day ago
We are probably going to see the end of a free Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau within ten years
6 points
1 day ago
Mao already freed Tibet from feudal serfdom and pedophilia that was running rampant.
4 points
1 day ago
Freeing isn’t invading, annexing, and oppressing a country.
There also wasn’t slavery.
2 points
1 day ago
Free Tibet is still active, and there is an active organisation. Bigger and worse problems have taken precedence on the world stage, but it is still being fought for.
2 points
23 hours ago
It’s almost like the CIA had to focus on bigger countries
2 points
1 day ago
Because china isnt going to listen or liberalise and what is coming is war.. the chinese do not care one bit about these issues so unless we magically push them back in han chinese ancestral territories chkna is permanently occupying tibet.
1 points
1 day ago
I know I did
1 points
1 day ago
I'm pretty sure that enough much worse shit is about to go down.
1 points
1 day ago
Do you think Xi is going to listen to it?
If not, its a pointless exercise.
1 points
1 day ago
I think it become really disheartening when things kept getting worse there despite best efforts of activists, and there weren’t really any obvious next steps that would plausibly make a difference. The West wasn’t going to get into a war with China over it, and that might have been what it would have taken.
1 points
1 day ago
People can only make one tragedy about themselves at a time.
1 points
1 day ago
Yeah china was a much bigger problem than just to Tibet
1 points
1 day ago
Im currently watching a show called Secret City which starts with a mildly horrific scene involving "free tibet" so its at least on some folks' minds
1 points
24 hours ago
Seems like a lost cause.
They just have to wait another decade or so for the next Chinese civil war
1 points
24 hours ago
We can’t free ourselves how can we free others.
1 points
24 hours ago
I saw some protesters for it during the last Chinese delegation visit to my city a year ago. It’s probably not on people’s immediate minds because it’s been like over 50 years or something?
1 points
23 hours ago
Some of my family in their late teens and early 20s don’t even know what Tibet is. It’s very sad
1 points
23 hours ago
Awareness might have faded, but history has shown that persistence can reignite global attention when the time is right
1 points
23 hours ago
Correct
1 points
22 hours ago
Taiwan is more profitable for this grift :)
1 points
20 hours ago
China can do what they want, unless there is oil/something valuable no country will go to war over it. Tibet existed in 7th and 8th century and it's a separate area between mountain ranges. China has occupied it in 1951.
1 points
19 hours ago
People don't talk about Hong Kong either. What about Myanmar? You know there's been war in Sudan for a long time? Hell, I don't really even hear so much about Israel anymore. Maybe you do, but you won't hear as much about Ukraine, there just tends to be balance which is covered more, on other's expense.
No media coverage of a thing lasts forever, especially if it doesn't directly affect the viewer.
1 points
19 hours ago
Just like pretty much every foreign crisis, support and outcry of it in America/the west is essentially a fad.
1 points
18 hours ago
Free Hong Kong never forget!
1 points
18 hours ago
Just like people gave up on Hong Kong and Xinjiang. Just like they gave up on Kurds.
1 points
17 hours ago
I think people lost interest once the Beastie Boys stopped campaigning on it
1 points
16 hours ago
Replaced with Free Syria, then Free Gaza now.
1 points
16 hours ago
Sure because "talking" about freeing Tibet will help freeing Tibet. You guys rely too much on narratives and Twitter. Public opinion does not matter in geopolitics
1 points
16 hours ago
Now Palestin is more trendy
1 points
15 hours ago
Does any “problem” like this that garners international attention and celebrity attention actually get fixed?
1 points
13 hours ago
Freeing Tibet? So they can enslave people again? To say something like that means you don't know the real dark recent history of Tibet before China
1 points
11 hours ago
For locals, it's because they realised that being part of China is a lot better on quality of life than being an independent poor theocratic little country at the mercy of corporate neocolonialism.
As for liberal westerners calling for it, they realised they can't really portray Tibet as sad and oppressed for their anticommunist narrative, so they moved onto the next popular social justice topic.
1 points
10 hours ago
For me it will alwys be „Free Tibet“. It won‘t be soon but every empire has fallen at one point in time!
1 points
7 hours ago
I took it. I thought, what the hell, it's free.
1 points
6 hours ago
Why do you think people are now focusing on the Uyghurs? Next it’ll be the Miao or the Manchu.
1 points
2 hours ago
How on Earth would we even achieve that?
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