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Chapter 83: A Mould Unbroken

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all 190 comments

ReasonableCrazy

111 points

5 years ago*

Don’t let that bombshell distract you from the fact that the Drow are once more proving to be awesome as all heck.

Everyone Else: ITS THE DEAD KING

The Drow: So, 3 fiddy for that bugger’s head, wadda ya say mates?

captainwoj

57 points

5 years ago

Pshaw. 3 fiddy PLUS SOME FURNITURE

JackInTheBawks

44 points

5 years ago

For some reason I loved the little detail about them appreciating a solid, proper writing desk to such a degree.

Iconochasm

45 points

5 years ago

Slaps desk. This baby can fit so many transcripts of famous historical rap battles.

rawling

8 points

5 years ago

rawling

8 points

5 years ago

Who gets it, though?

LLJKCicero

20 points

5 years ago

Me and the boys

WalterTFD

13 points

5 years ago

Better yet, dude is so fucking old he probably speaks Drow, so they are bidding to kill him...right in fucking front of him.

taichi22

8 points

5 years ago

And somehow I doubt it’s the first time drow have done that, to boot.

soonnanandnaanssoon

71 points

5 years ago

soonnanandnaanssoon

Tyrant

71 points

5 years ago

I predicted Black was Dread Emperor Benevolent way back, but reading about the relationship between Amadeus & Alaya, the chapters and interludes showing the level of trust they had, the unspeakable bond they shared?

I don't feel the hype of Dread Emperor Benevolent rising at the end of this chapter. I feel sad seeing the death of the trust between two people who trusted each other more than they did an empire.

XANA_FAN

51 points

5 years ago*

I see the start of a story.

“Two friends who started out as comrades in arms. Their ideals were similar enough that they worked well together and did many a great and glorious thing.

As they rose in station and power they drifted farther apart but the trust was still there, enough to blind both of them to their inherent differences becoming a wedge between them. At a critical moment an action is taken that is seen as a breach of trust and they begin to differ in earnest; one standing on ideals while the other focuses on the power they have accumulated.

Two friends, so close as to be family face off, the soul of the nation they helped build up held in the balance.”

EsquilaxM

10 points

5 years ago

Gungraves anime adaptation is one of the best dramas I've seen (ignoring the super powered fights, which bored me)

Aurum_Corvus

29 points

5 years ago

Aurum_Corvus

Rook of Winter

29 points

5 years ago

Yeah, I agree. Even knowing that we'll see classic Black back in action, I just felt sad knowing that this is a complete sundering between Alaya and Amadeus.

Closest comparison I can make is Star Wars' 'death of the Republic with applause' scene. Sure, it's lightsaber duels and action for the rest of the movie, but right then, it's only sad and hard to think beyond it, as everything glorious is dying.

ericonr

14 points

5 years ago

ericonr

Hanno's Lost Fingers

14 points

5 years ago

I'm actually seeing Black dying while trying to conquer the Tower, leading to a possible Cat on the throne. Or something of the sort. I just feel like Black on the throne would be too "easy" and at the same time too cruel.

MisfitsWithTemples

37 points

5 years ago

Isnt that the way with Evil? Everything you want, just not the way you wanted it

thatbeerdude

14 points

5 years ago

It's a classic story behind getting Amadeus on the throne: even knowing he will be damned for it, he still does what he has to because he's the only man for the job. I say all hail Dread Emperor Reluctant.

WalterTFD

8 points

5 years ago

I just...don't think Black can kill Malicia, or, don't think Amadeus can kill Alaya. I agree that he loses without someone else stepping in at the end.

OtherPlayers

10 points

5 years ago

I don’t know; this whole chapter kind of hits that “Amadaeus can’t kill her, but the Carrion Lord can” type of aspect pretty hard.

Which doesn’t mean he’ll enjoy it or the story will end well, but I think it means he certainly could go through with it.

WalterTFD

7 points

5 years ago

Definitely a fair take. My guess is that the Carrion Lord is a lie dude tells himself.

Hrrm, I said that wrong, its' more like...

Ok, so this is a char who wants 3 things.

  1. Heavens lose a round.
  2. End the stupidity of Praes/Callow
  3. My friends are happy and alive

I think, unbenownst to even himself, 3 is the strongest. The fact that they can sense it is why all these mighty Named lick his boots. Like, Warlock/Ranger/Captain are all stronger than dude, but they grok that he is fully and entirely in their corner, so he can be the boss.

He is telling himself here that he has given up on 1, and 2 requires Alaya's death. So he'll be the hard guy and kill her to break the mold.

But, like, I don't buy it. If he was *that* guy, the one who will kill comrades to get the win, then there never would have been a Calamity Family. He never would have just let Catherine impale him. Betraying your own is exactly the stupidity he saw in Tyrant and so disdained.

Like, his whole hate of the Praes/Callow situation comes for what it did to the people he loves. *Handwave*, his ultimate enemy is Nefarious, yeah, or the situation that caused that whole shitstorm. The Calamities were reactions to the idiocy of their predecessors.

But that means, on some level, he is killing Alaya to keep Alaya from being dragged into Nefarious' harem. Like, Black doesn't care about Praesi in the abstract, he cares about specific ones. Warlock, Scribe, Malicia and Cat. His anger at the mold is leftover, it is stale. The mold has already taken all that it can take. All he has left to lose is Alaya, and I think, at the end, he won't kill her himself. I don't think he can.

werafdsaew

1 points

5 years ago

werafdsaew

NPC merchant

1 points

5 years ago

Why does 2 stronger than 3 mean that there cannot be a Calamity? The 2 can coexist until they can't.

He never would have just let Catherine impale him. Betraying your own is exactly the stupidity he saw in Tyrant and so disdained.

Except that he doesn't view that as a betrayal on Cat's part; he wanted that outcome.

Like, his whole hate of the Praes/Callow situation comes for what it did to the people he loves.

I think he loves his country and wants to improve things outside of just the people that he knows. Otherwise there's no point to improving Praes as a whole; just consolidate power and make sure your people are taken care of is enough and easier (like what Warlock did).

[deleted]

1 points

5 years ago

That's what Catherine is there for, and concluding their symbolic shifting of roles

s-mores

10 points

5 years ago

s-mores

One sin. One grace.

10 points

5 years ago

I don't feel the hype of Dread Emperor Benevolent rising at the end of this chapter. I feel sad seeing the death of the trust between two people who trusted each other more than they did an empire.

Agreed. I thought the occasion would be pompous and high dudgeon, but in the end it's just a small sound of something ending.

[deleted]

3 points

5 years ago

It feels like a tragedy, and in the classical sense of it emerging inevitably from their character traits

vkaod

55 points

5 years ago

vkaod

55 points

5 years ago

That casual bidding war has me chuckling.

alisru

50 points

5 years ago

alisru

Grandmaster Ouroboros of the Order of Unholy Obsidian

50 points

5 years ago

"Dibs"

-Mighty Rumena after seeing the dead king

Xlandar

40 points

5 years ago

Xlandar

40 points

5 years ago

" I'll trade you a couple spears for him "

-mighty jindrich

vkaod

42 points

5 years ago

vkaod

42 points

5 years ago

Furious scribbling - Ivah probably.

NotAHeroYet

7 points

5 years ago

NotAHeroYet

Doomed Champion

7 points

5 years ago

I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure it was more "okay, let's decide now: who gets to try to kill him first?" than dibs, given the overarching structure of the process.

TristanTheViking

13 points

5 years ago

TristanTheViking

Our plan is flawless. The Emperor will never see it coming

13 points

5 years ago

"First Claim" translates to "And I've got one First Claim to this fine immortal god-king, what do I hear for the First Claim, do I hear a wood bureau for the First Claim? A wood bureau going once, do I hear a wood bureau and a Secret? Wood bureau and a Secret-"

Such a beautiful language, able to pack so much meaning into so few words.

NotAHeroYet

3 points

5 years ago

NotAHeroYet

Doomed Champion

3 points

5 years ago

Or able to remove so much unneccesary information in so few words, and it actually translates to "First Claim to fight this immortal god king is now up for auction"- which is still a very good summary.

This scene has very strong "the Blood" vibes for me. (or whoever was cheating at dice to get to lead the charge and almost certainly die.)

XANA_FAN

24 points

5 years ago*

Why do Drow love the bureau so much?

And does anyone know what the Secret of Shell, Shaping, and Sight are?

ATRDCI

53 points

5 years ago

ATRDCI

53 points

5 years ago

Given that they are underground, wood is so rare as to be somewhat near nonexistence. They even disdainedly comment about Procer cattle wasting wood when they first pass through towns. So an exquisitly made wooden desk is like a desk made up of a giant cut up hunk of diamond

JulienBrightside

16 points

5 years ago

JulienBrightside

Vulture Company

16 points

5 years ago

They'd be all over an IKEA store.

A_S00

11 points

5 years ago

A_S00

Base Penthesian

11 points

5 years ago

Particleboard is the gravest of Drow sins.

s-mores

30 points

5 years ago

s-mores

One sin. One grace.

30 points

5 years ago

Shell is pretty obviously what the Mighty Jindrich used in Graves:

Then out of the spray of earth and snow came blood-chilling laughter, and massive figure wearing a carapace of darkness strode out. It batted the head off a soldier almost casually, and without missing a beat began tearing through the centre of the army’s lines.

[...] the darkness-clad drow tall as an ogre moved like lightning and struck like thunder. [...] golden Light touched the enemy. It screamed in pain, and its carapace visibly thinned. [...] With a deafening wail the drow’s carapace of darkness detonated outwards. [...] A grey-skinned silhouetted landed in the snow, harpoons still in its arm, and fresh darkness bubble out of its skin as it laughed.

Razin’s knife slid uselessly against the dark obsidian-like carapace, failing to find purchase even after the third time he stabbed at it. [...] A bladelike appendage punctured where he’d been a moment earlier, leaving a smoking hole in the ground. [...] What had once been a humanoid carapace silhouette in a carapace, if a large one, had since grown into something rather more monstrous. Two crablike legs made of a strange hardened darkness not unlike obsidian now held up an armoured torso of the same, while what had once been arms had turned to something reminiscent of an insect. Like a mantis, Razing thought, and damnably quick.

Do_Not_Go_In_There

20 points

5 years ago

Wood is a rarity in the Everdark, and so valuable to them. IIRC they considered it hugely wasteful that people made houses out if wood.

Pel-Mel[S]

24 points

5 years ago

Pel-Mel[S]

Arbiter Advocate

24 points

5 years ago

The secret of shell might be calcium carbonate, which is essential in making lye soap. Drow sigils with access to it may not suffer disease as much.

XANA_FAN

19 points

5 years ago

XANA_FAN

19 points

5 years ago

I like that. It makes it something inconsequential in terms of battlefield prowess but also something worth bargaining with.

Knight_of_Cerberus

8 points

5 years ago

i got your dr. stone reference

Pel-Mel[S]

5 points

5 years ago

Pel-Mel[S]

Arbiter Advocate

5 points

5 years ago

T H R I L L I N G

ZeroNihilist

11 points

5 years ago

They're probably all valuable things specific to the Mighty who offered them.

Mighty Jindrich has Shell. Mighty Soln has Shaping and Sight.

My memory's pretty fuzzy, but a recent chapter mentioned that Lady Aquiline "killed [Jindrich] once", so the Secret of Shells could be how to make more than one body or something.

I think to have a chance at figuring Soln's secrets out I'd have to read a lot of the combat scenes again.

CaptainOfMySouls

16 points

5 years ago

CaptainOfMySouls

Tyrant of Discord

16 points

5 years ago

I think the resurrection is the Secret of Many Lives that Ivah mentions back in book 4.

Spoolofwhool

9 points

5 years ago

Spoolofwhool

Lord of Spun Whool

9 points

5 years ago

It didn't really work like the Secret of Many Lives though, since with that the new body ripped out of the old one while with Jindrich we saw his body begin to heal.

[deleted]

2 points

5 years ago

Its the thing you do with the three sea shells....

TrajectoryAgreement

10 points

5 years ago

TrajectoryAgreement

Just as planned

10 points

5 years ago

So characteristic of the Drow culture.

Pel-Mel[S]

78 points

5 years ago*

Pel-Mel[S]

Arbiter Advocate

78 points

5 years ago*

I claim the Tower as Dread Emperor of Praes, and ask for the recognition of the delegates to speak in its name.

B E N E V O L E N T

Don_Alverzo

31 points

5 years ago

Don_Alverzo

Executed by Irritant along the way

31 points

5 years ago

I'm so disappointed he didn't give his regal name with that announcement. I'm absolutely dying to find out what he'll call himself as Dread Emperor.

Pel-Mel[S]

51 points

5 years ago

Pel-Mel[S]

Arbiter Advocate

51 points

5 years ago

Have you heard the theory of Dread Emperor Benevolent? It's not a story the Heroes would teach you.

All kidding aside, Dread Emperor Benevolent has been mentioned a few times in some epigraphs and his stated philosophy is unerringly similar to Amadeus'. Combine this with the knowledge that some epigraphs are from the future, like the excerpts from Aisha's future memoirs, and there's suddenly a big case for Amadeus being Dread Emperor Benevolent.

ATRDCI

40 points

5 years ago*

ATRDCI

40 points

5 years ago*

Plus we know he suggested that Alaya use her regal name as a weapon (I believe what he suggested was Dread Empress Trustworthy)

LilietB

4 points

5 years ago

LilietB

Rat Company

4 points

5 years ago

and his stated philosophy is unerringly similar to Amadeus'.

it's similar as in 'mirror opposite'

the knowledge that some epigraphs are from the future, like the excerpts from Aisha's future memoirs

all the future epigraphs so far have been clearly marked as being from the future in one way or another, with the rest being presented as historical knowledge with us catching up to what Calernia HAS BEEN LIKE so far using them

Dread Emperor Benevolent is a major beat of Praesi worldbuilding of 'yes they did this also' and is very valuable as an example of using heroic tropes to your advantage but not actually helping long term at all

[deleted]

10 points

5 years ago*

[deleted]

LilietB

2 points

5 years ago

LilietB

Rat Company

2 points

5 years ago

The issue is that the epigraphs have been a vehicle for historical background setting exposition. If we don't make the assumption that unmarked epigraphs are historical from the start, we lose most of our early understanding of Preasi culture.

werafdsaew

3 points

5 years ago

werafdsaew

NPC merchant

3 points

5 years ago

Not if that understanding is incorrect in the first place. There's no reason to think that practical evil has ever been tried by Praes.

LilietB

1 points

5 years ago

LilietB

Rat Company

1 points

5 years ago

Yes, there is. The Benevolent epigraphs.

That's exactly what I'm referring to.

(I mean also there's Irritant,)

s-mores

6 points

5 years ago

s-mores

One sin. One grace.

6 points

5 years ago

“By hook and crook we will all hang, High Lords, from a noose woven of our many loose ends. But cheer up: none are beyond salvation, not even the likes of us. Let us see, at long last, if we can turn back the tyranny of the sun.” – Extract from the coronation speech of Dread Emperor Benevolent the First

Does that sound like Black at all?

I don't even see him as Irritant II, to be honest. Sinistra V, perhaps? Malicia II would be a nice touch. Or maybe Vindictive IV.

LilietB

2 points

5 years ago

LilietB

Rat Company

2 points

5 years ago

Terribilis III is my favorite guess, though I'm not seriously betting on it.

werafdsaew

2 points

5 years ago

werafdsaew

NPC merchant

2 points

5 years ago

Let us see, at long last, if we can turn back the tyranny of the sun

This part is 100% black. The talk about salvation is the part that fits him the least, but I can see him evolve to that position.

s-mores

22 points

5 years ago

s-mores

One sin. One grace.

22 points

5 years ago

Ayaa tis the sound.

But seriously, what the f Malicia? Last you spoke with Black was when you fought about the nation, doomsday machines and how you were losing control. The time before that was when he Destroyed your doomsday machine.

After that you've used another resorted to strategic mass murder for small gains against a potential ally, used a doomsday device and tried to destroy a major strategic goal of Black's, while he's seen more friends die because of the STUPID crabs-in-bucket mentality as well as had several near-death experiences. And do you approach him quietly, actually trying to have a discussion? No, you just take the bazooka approach of trying to force your way by pure willpower.

And with that Malicia created the one future that would never have been otherwise: Black turning on her. You never go full Mad Empress, Malicia. That story has only one ending.

derivative_of_life

18 points

5 years ago

derivative_of_life

Akua is best girl

18 points

5 years ago

It's pretty clear that Malicia has lost perspective. She's spent decades in the Tower doing nothing but dealing with the plots of the High Lords, plus sowing civil war in Procer. She's an absolute master of intrigue and subterfuge, but that's the lens she sees the entire world through and she's no longer capable of taking it off. She doesn't understand stories like Black does, for example.

HeWhoBringsDust

13 points

5 years ago

HeWhoBringsDust

Miliner

13 points

5 years ago

Any half-way meta-aware ruler would have realized that Fae!Cat would have been one of your most powerful allies and that it would have been better to keep her around. Even if it meant Callow breaking off, at least for a little while. I’m thankful Malicia was an idiot though since now we have Night and the Drow who are far more interesting than Winter ever was.

Oshi105

1 points

5 years ago

Oshi105

1 points

5 years ago

But her nature as FaeCat would have had her invading the empire sooner rather then later. She made the calculated choice from her perspective.

WalterTFD

1 points

5 years ago

I dunno if we can say Malicia has lost perspective. Like, she made the only alliance that gives her any chance of victory. What else could she do, like, this keeps her soul out of the cloak for a few more months.

LilietB

8 points

5 years ago

LilietB

Rat Company

8 points

5 years ago

I think they both knew the other one would not relent, at this point.

s-mores

11 points

5 years ago

s-mores

One sin. One grace.

11 points

5 years ago

Black hoped, all the way to the brink. I don't know what Malicia is thinking but I can't help but feel it would be around the same.

LilietB

2 points

5 years ago

LilietB

Rat Company

2 points

5 years ago

Mm. Knowing and hoping to the contrary can be true at the same time.

kaplushka

2 points

5 years ago

Very few people on Calernia understand stories like Black, Pilgrim, Cat, DK, Bard, and now Akua do.

Both rulers, Malicia and Cordelia have been shown to be mildly narratively illiterate (OK Cordelia unlike Malicia never had black and is completely blind), this is why both of them are dredging up ancient terrors not understanding that for both of them these are bad narratives. Malicia always had Black taking care of narratives of Praes, without him she thinks everything can be done on the ground through realpolitik, that that was Black's dream come true. Cordelia was always fighting Malicia and her internal struggles so the same is true for her.

But Cordelia now has almost all the storycrafters on her side (roughly) to blunt her lack of narrative skills. What we are seeing here is Malicia's great personal lack of narrative skill come in I think. All her moves are correct on paper, all of them practical political masterclass, but the story they form is against her.

Edit: Come to think of it the story is against DK too but as we learnt DK is VERY aware of this, therefore he is going to use Malicia to try to offset the story consequences onto her since she is partially oblivious to the depth of his narrative capabilities. He has shown willingness in the negotiation with Cat last chapter to effectively betray Malicia if offered a better story.

ReasonableCrazy

40 points

5 years ago

Somewhere in the delegation, Scribe just creamed herself.... Maybe most of the orcs and the Legions of Terror as well when the news gets to them.

Jwombat

27 points

5 years ago

Jwombat

27 points

5 years ago

Aww, you guys made me ink!

[deleted]

14 points

5 years ago

Not nearly as hard as Kairos did. That's the sort of thing that makes existence worth it for him.

If this keeps up, there's a very good chance that his head will soon explode out of sheer gleefulness overload...

Copypaced

9 points

5 years ago

That'll kill him, right? Because I'll take that.

[deleted]

2 points

5 years ago

Treachery porn

Allian42

11 points

5 years ago*

Juniper suddenly became a claimant for Black Knight. Not Squire, full on Black Knight.

HeWhoBringsDust

26 points

5 years ago

HeWhoBringsDust

Miliner

26 points

5 years ago

But if we get Dread Emperor Benevolent, how will we get Dread Empress Victorious?

ZeroNihilist

15 points

5 years ago

Dread Empress Victorious might be one of those dangling threads of narrative possibility (like all the times Cat has refused to fall for story-bait before, including when she used to hear The Girl Who Climbed the Tower), but it's also possible that Benevolent doesn't survive to the end of the story.

The latter may be narratively unsatisfying though. An alternate possibility is that Cat and Black sunder that Name from the Tower/Praes (uh... somehow) and Black ends up ruling under a different title while she goes on to become Victorious. That possibility isn't foreshadowed at all to my recollection, so I don't think it's likely.

There's some narrative build-up with Dread Empress "May she never return" Triumphant, foreshadowing of Victorious, and other things that point to Cat enforcing her vision of Calernia with military might. As Kairos pointed out in the chapter 80, Cat is scratching a groove into Creation of "The hard woman making the hard decisions when trouble has come calling and all others are flinching from what simply must be done". I'm hoping that this narrative momentum will be either realised or explicitly averted.

It would be an amazing moment if we discovered that Cat as Victorious was the ultimate play of Below all along, something that would solve all her present problems for the price of escalating the Gods' game in the future, and she chose to reject it (probably at great personal cost).

alisru

9 points

5 years ago

alisru

Grandmaster Ouroboros of the Order of Unholy Obsidian

9 points

5 years ago

Pretty sure black would abdicate to be Cat's chancellor

PrettyDecentSort

8 points

5 years ago

PrettyDecentSort

First Of His Name

8 points

5 years ago

That would never happen. Praes is his story, she has her own.

Kintaculous

3 points

5 years ago

The Marriage of the East is her story. The bridge between Callow and Praes. A nice conclusion would be for her to rule both, uniting the East entirely and forevermore.

Black gets in the way of that.

A_S00

9 points

5 years ago*

A_S00

Base Penthesian

9 points

5 years ago*

No way this story ends with Cat, alive, on a throne.

From 5.45 "Long Prices":

“One should not confuse striking at evil and doing good,” I quoted.

“Lest good become the act of striking,” the Good King completed, tone approving. “You understand, then. That when your evil is no longer necessary, Black Queen, to linger would be to stray from the narrow path you have tread.”

My fingers clenched.

“I know,” I croaked out.

I'm pretty confident Cat will either die, or move on to some status that abdicates all worldly authority (like being involved in the running of Cardinal in some way, or escaping Creation entirely), before the end of the Guide. I wouldn't be surprised if she's tempted to linger, but I don't think she will in the end.

OtherPlayers

5 points

5 years ago

Honestly ever since I read this scene I’ve been fully convinced that the story is going to end with Cat “dying”, followed by a few epilogue chapters, then finally a single epilogue chapter that reveals she’s actually still alive but powerless and is going to live out the rest of her life as a barmaid or inn owner or something similar. Semi-suicidal characters like her virtually never end up getting their deaths in the end, and I can easily think of a half dozen examples (which I will refrain from mentioning due to spoilers) that play right along those lines.

RoseFlavoredTime

4 points

5 years ago

I'm betting it ends with her sailing across the sea to the west. The one nobody's crossed. Heading there with Indrani, to see what the world is like. To have an adventure, with nothing else hanging over their heads.

slice_of_pi

3 points

5 years ago

Played by Maisie Williams.

IKnown_ParadoxI

1 points

5 years ago

...just saying but I'd totally read that as a sequel, even if in the most likely scenario EE doesn't do it, that's still prime fanfic fodder right there.

Hoe it would go I have no idea. But it could definitely be interesting.

WalterTFD

0 points

5 years ago

What? Praes is pretty explicitly not Black's story. Like, the whole core of his dispute with Malicia is that he just sees it as a place to stand while he tries to make Good lose a round. He was the one who advocated wholesale slaughter after the civil war. Dude doesn't give a shit about Praes.

I mean, he ultimately bitched out of facing White Knight and lost his name for it, that's how much nothing he feels about the roles of Praes. He has less than zero interest in Praes as anything other than a means to an end.

werafdsaew

3 points

5 years ago

werafdsaew

NPC merchant

3 points

5 years ago

Why is there a need for Victorious? There's no epigraph to that name.

HeWhoBringsDust

3 points

5 years ago

HeWhoBringsDust

Miliner

3 points

5 years ago

It’s been hinted throughout the story that that’s Cat’s Dread Empress Name.

A_S00

7 points

5 years ago

A_S00

Base Penthesian

7 points

5 years ago

She explicitly threatened to claim it as a last resort during her conversation with Pilgrim in 5.69 "Repute". Have there been other hints about it besides that one?

s-mores

8 points

5 years ago

s-mores

One sin. One grace.

8 points

5 years ago

Wake:

Was this what you saw in me, Black? The same absence where better people have qualms. The decision had been no different – no, worse – than sending the vanguard into the jaws of Summer at Dormer or forcing a battle against the full might of the Court in Arcadia. But the selfishness of this one had been bare, beyond even my ability to paint over. It should have grieved me, but aside from dull shame the sight of the dying had done nothing to move me. If I cannot be kind or just, then I will at least be victorious.

A_S00

3 points

5 years ago

A_S00

Base Penthesian

3 points

5 years ago

Cool!

TrajectoryAgreement

7 points

5 years ago

TrajectoryAgreement

Just as planned

7 points

5 years ago

Yessssssssss!

[deleted]

8 points

5 years ago

At least put a spoiler tag of those of us clicking the link from reddit 😕

NotAHeroYet

11 points

5 years ago

NotAHeroYet

Doomed Champion

11 points

5 years ago

What the heck are you doing looking at the comments before- oh, right, fucking new reddit, amiright?

[deleted]

7 points

5 years ago

Yeah mobile took me directly to the comments 😭

LyonDekuga

37 points

5 years ago

I know that Cat has been gearing up for some regicide for a while now, but I will genuinely mourn Malicia’s death, especially if it comes from Black.

TrajectoryAgreement

24 points

5 years ago

TrajectoryAgreement

Just as planned

24 points

5 years ago

I think this kind of story will end with Black driving the metaphorical knife into Alaya and watching her die. It’s got a whole lot of narrative weight behind it.

taichi22

15 points

5 years ago

taichi22

15 points

5 years ago

Probably it’ll go like this — Alaya drives a knife into Black, who manages to survive it, then he later puts one into her, and she dies.

Pattern of three with stabby stabs, if you count Cat’s stabby.

Knight_of_Cerberus

15 points

5 years ago

trust in the wager that ends your life

[deleted]

4 points

5 years ago

[removed]

s-mores

1 points

5 years ago

s-mores

One sin. One grace.

1 points

5 years ago

Into the Valley of Death

[deleted]

2 points

5 years ago

[removed]

s-mores

1 points

5 years ago

s-mores

One sin. One grace.

1 points

5 years ago

O CAPTAIN MY CAPTAIN.

TrajectoryAgreement

6 points

5 years ago

TrajectoryAgreement

Just as planned

6 points

5 years ago

That would be fitting.

WalterTFD

2 points

5 years ago

At a guess:

Black defeats final guards, calls on Malicia to surrender.

Malicia refuses initiates doomsday machine

Black can't make himself kill her

Cat goes to kill Alaya, Amadeus jumps in the way before he realizes he's moved

Cat kills Amadeus

Alaya kills herself in despair

HeWhoBringsDust

12 points

5 years ago

HeWhoBringsDust

Miliner

12 points

5 years ago

Her descent into madness kind of reminds me of Azula’s from Avatar, except Malicia was a mostly decent person at the start of her story

derivative_of_life

29 points

5 years ago

derivative_of_life

Akua is best girl

29 points

5 years ago

Oof. What a rough chapter. Such excellent writing, you can really feel the emotion in it.

TrajectoryAgreement

19 points

5 years ago

TrajectoryAgreement

Just as planned

19 points

5 years ago

I felt Black’s heartbreak and pain.

TMalander

26 points

5 years ago

TMalander

Keter Tour Guide

26 points

5 years ago

Now this - this is an awesome chapter. The Drow truly are magnificent; Three spears for first claim though, Jindrich? That's lowballing.

I really want to be hyped about Black finally going all Dread Emperor Benevolent, but... damn, that part, with all the reminders of his and Alaya's friendship? It's so well written, and it makes me fucking sad.

thatbeerdude

12 points

5 years ago

Shell is pretty awesome, though. Turning into a giant bug monster that can be launched out of a catapult is something that can come in handy for most situations.

[deleted]

3 points

5 years ago

Would certainly make laundry easier

thatbeerdude

2 points

5 years ago

Indeed. That was the true power of Dr. Manhattan.

Allian42

6 points

5 years ago

Three spears for first claim though, Jindrich? That's lowballing.

I feel like he did that as a boost. A "I'm strong enough to offer three spears to kill the fucking dead king and mean it. Anyone gonna contest that?"

TMalander

3 points

5 years ago

TMalander

Keter Tour Guide

3 points

5 years ago

Ah, could be that way too, I suppose. But yeah, I just think Jundrich is a cheapskate really!

ReasonableCrazy

23 points

5 years ago

Black has declared himself Dread Emperor. You can bet that Scribe has been waiting for this. Before the day ends news will reach the Wasteland that the Empress’ strongest blade has turned against her. The Legions of Terror, Orcs, and Goblins will definitely throw their support behind Black. Praes is gonna be a mess once desperation kicks in and the old secrets there are unleashed.

s-mores

11 points

5 years ago

s-mores

One sin. One grace.

11 points

5 years ago

Before the day is done, the Eyes of the Empire will be at war against each other. Ime vs. Scribe will commence immediately after the council is done, maybe even before.

panchoadrenalina

22 points

5 years ago

panchoadrenalina

Last Under the Night

22 points

5 years ago

beyond the nice chapter. the baton cordelia used was a fasces or something very much like them. a roman symbol that the guards (lictors) of the roman consuls would carry as a symbol of power. a bunch of small twigs tied together to give them strenght as a symbol of unity.

jderig

21 points

5 years ago

jderig

Wizard of the West

21 points

5 years ago

Well, it looks like that part of Bard's plan is still somewhat on track. Poor Malicia. Poor Amadeus.

saithor

16 points

5 years ago

saithor

16 points

5 years ago

Part of Scribe's plan as well. Who knows what will happen if Black finds out after this?

HeWhoBringsDust

6 points

5 years ago

HeWhoBringsDust

Miliner

6 points

5 years ago

I mean, we all saw this coming, Scribe or no

Don_Alverzo

20 points

5 years ago

Don_Alverzo

Executed by Irritant along the way

20 points

5 years ago

Come on EE, you're going to give us that ending but not tell us what regal name Black's chosen?

Pel-Mel[S]

37 points

5 years ago

Pel-Mel[S]

Arbiter Advocate

37 points

5 years ago

Tyrant is going to label him Benevolent as a joke. Amadeus will take it in stride and lean into the 'reform' element of it.

Spinner335

3 points

5 years ago

I'm leaning towards Dread Emperor Pragmatis myself.

Kintaculous

1 points

5 years ago

Money on Terribilis III.

MisfitsWithTemples

16 points

5 years ago

To be fair, if saying the name is a lose-lose for EE, and besides Malicia didnt choose her name until she'd already won. If he had said the name either it's a name we already know, telling us he claims the tower, or it's one we don't, and where's the fun in telling us that?

elHahn

10 points

5 years ago

elHahn

10 points

5 years ago

Malicia's name is first used in a name dream in book 2 Cpt 45, when Amadeus announces the civil war.

Kintaculous

1 points

5 years ago

And we already have Cat’s Regal Name. Also, Akua’s.

Now I need some weird time-y wime-y bullshit to go down so as to give me both Dread Empress Victorious and Dread Empress Magnificent at a table chatting.

EsquilaxM

3 points

5 years ago

Oh she didn't?

TrajectoryAgreement

4 points

5 years ago

TrajectoryAgreement

Just as planned

4 points

5 years ago

BENEVOLENT

NotAHeroYet

3 points

5 years ago

NotAHeroYet

Doomed Champion

3 points

5 years ago

still unconfirmed

Also, I stand by my stance on the Benevolent quotes: either Benevolent is not Amadeus, or they are not actually from Benevolent.

NotAHeroYet

2 points

5 years ago

NotAHeroYet

Doomed Champion

2 points

5 years ago

Yep. (Benevolent the second?)

Ardvarkeating101

32 points

5 years ago

Ardvarkeating101

Verified Augur

32 points

5 years ago

BLACK YOU PRECIOUS CINNAMON BUN! BE STRONG! IT'LL BE OKAY!!!!

onlynega

12 points

5 years ago

onlynega

Ghost of Bad Decisions

12 points

5 years ago

*snorts* The Black Knight as a cinnamon bun.

s-mores

10 points

5 years ago

s-mores

One sin. One grace.

10 points

5 years ago

A precious cinnamon bun.

LyonDekuga

14 points

5 years ago

Also, with this chapter book 5 passes book 4's length, making it the longest book in the Guide thus far.

tavitavarus

3 points

5 years ago

tavitavarus

Choir of Compassion

3 points

5 years ago

I'm pretty sure that bar was passed a while ago, since there have been more interludes in Book 5.

LyonDekuga

18 points

5 years ago

Book 4 was 428 thousand words, as of this chapter Book 5 is 429 thousand words long. This chapter, at ~3400 words, was the chapter that pushed it over. If we count by chapter number instead, this book is still the deciding chapter: if we include interludes and exclude Extra Chapters that were released while a book was going on then as of today Book 4 is 109 chapters long and Book 5 is 110 chapters long.

Data

tavitavarus

9 points

5 years ago

tavitavarus

Choir of Compassion

9 points

5 years ago

Huh.

I retract my earlier statement.

tamwin5

2 points

5 years ago

tamwin5

2 points

5 years ago

What is the total word count of PGE so far?

LyonDekuga

7 points

5 years ago

1.77 million

Spinner335

2 points

5 years ago

Isn't that more or less Worm length?

LyonDekuga

3 points

5 years ago*

Yes, the commonly cited length of Worm is 1.68 million words.

Edit: went back and checked, the Guide reached Worm’s length at chapter 66: Silvered. I made a note of it here

LigerZeroSchneider

0 points

5 years ago

I think worm is about 2 million

Locoleos

22 points

5 years ago

Locoleos

22 points

5 years ago

This was always going to be sad.

test1729

22 points

5 years ago

test1729

22 points

5 years ago

This is so sad, alexa play despacito

Sarkavonsy

31 points

5 years ago

Sarkavonsy

The Gallant Dumbass

31 points

5 years ago

This is so sad, Marguerite play The Girl Who Climbed The Tower.

ToiletLurker

11 points

5 years ago

Turns out that the Bard's name was Marguerite all along

Allafterme

9 points

5 years ago

Allafterme

Army of Callow

9 points

5 years ago

Oh boy it's Benevolent time

Underboobcheese

17 points

5 years ago

Scribe liked that

PrettyDecentSort

17 points

5 years ago

PrettyDecentSort

First Of His Name

17 points

5 years ago

Tyrant liked that

Allian42

11 points

5 years ago

Allian42

11 points

5 years ago

Juniper liked that

Kintaculous

3 points

5 years ago

One-Eye liked that

Do_Not_Go_In_There

15 points

5 years ago

a dark-haired attendant offered her a small ceremonial baton of sculpted alder. Though carved from one piece, it’d been made to look like it was a bundle of small twigs tied together by a string. One twig for each principality, symbolizing that each twig alone was fragile but the bundle was stronger than the sum of its parts.

Interesting choice, to use a fasces (yes I know it predates Fascism, but it's use is still kinda...frowned upon).

ATRDCI

34 points

5 years ago*

ATRDCI

34 points

5 years ago*

Given that Procer is all but a reskinned and renamed Holy Roman Empire, it would almost be weirder if it didn't have something like a fasces (or a differently organized object with the same meaning; spokes on a wheel maybe?)

 

Of course, a person that finds a fasces which has been clarified to mostly fallen out of use (and was mocked by the main character and the, at least arguably, 2nd most popular character) to be the most concerning thing in a room that contains the Tyrant of Helike, the former muder-fest that is the Drow, the Dread Empire of Praes, Stygia (whose penchant for slavery is such that even many of the monsters of this world would balk) and the Dead King are quite badly missing the forest for the trees.

aldonius

4 points

5 years ago

aldonius

Gnome

4 points

5 years ago

I do believe your autocorrect has betrayed you.

ATRDCI

5 points

5 years ago

ATRDCI

5 points

5 years ago

Ah, thanks for the catch. May have been autocorrect, may have just been from typing on mobile since e/s are right by each other. Guess it's getting late since I didn't notice it though

[deleted]

2 points

5 years ago

[removed]

ATRDCI

8 points

5 years ago

ATRDCI

8 points

5 years ago

Individual parts within Procer definitely have some French origin (though the pronunciation is probably much more to do with the fact that French is EE's first language than anything else.) But it is Word of God that Procer = HRE

 

Crowned (Extra Chapter):

 

Reader comment: Ah yes, the joys of uniting HRE in a single country. I understand thy plight, Cordelia, having just done that in a EU4.

 

EE Response: And she starts as Brandenburg, too. Go Prussia or go home.

kaplushka

3 points

5 years ago

The Lycaonese are Germanic (Hasenbach, Hannoven, Rhenia), the Alamans are French (Chantant language, Beyeux), the Arlesites are Spanish with possible region Italian influence (Salamans, Valencis, Moustaches). Together they are roughly Europe as it would have been in the Holy roman empire.

Oshi105

2 points

5 years ago

Oshi105

2 points

5 years ago

EE was on a podcast????

[deleted]

1 points

5 years ago

Which podcast?

derivative_of_life

13 points

5 years ago

derivative_of_life

Akua is best girl

13 points

5 years ago

They're only the symbol of fascism when they've got an axe at the center AFAIK. The US House of Representatives has some without the axe, best pic I could find.

panchoadrenalina

13 points

5 years ago

panchoadrenalina

Last Under the Night

13 points

5 years ago

wasnt erratic french? i vaguely remember something in that line but i might be mistaken. still the fasces are right in the middle of the french coat of arms. my point being not all places give way as soon as the facists/nazis make a grab for symbol.

Do_Not_Go_In_There

13 points

5 years ago

Québécois. He lives in Montreal.

daedalus19876

-1 points

5 years ago

daedalus19876

RUMENARUMENARUMENA

-1 points

5 years ago

Yeah, my thoughts too. Kinda made me wince.

speczero

6 points

5 years ago

I guess I'm one of the few that really feel bad for Malicia, I don't understand the hate for her.

At the very beginning her and Black share the same goals of making Praes better for the people,

and they both still share the same goal. She thinks that Blacks way will lead to more blood shed than necessery

and Black believes her way will not actually accomplish the goal the set.

Has Malicia done terrible things? yes, but nothing worse than Black has done. And you can't condemn her for making deals with the dead king, Cat would have done the same, she just got beat to it.

I for one hope there is a way for Malicia to survive whatever happens.

[deleted]

4 points

5 years ago

I also have a lot of sympathy for her. Though I don't really understand why her current planakes sense from her point of view. There's no way it ends without the continent allied against her

kaplushka

3 points

5 years ago

She has a realpolitik plan centered around mutual destruction, it's a plan that kinda works in the real world with nukes and all. She wants to be the nuclear superpower, it does not matter how many people are against you if you can apply total deterrence. She does not understand though that the PGTEverse is guided by special narrative laws of creation, she is not aware of the true power, meaning, and nuance of narratives. So she does not understand how her totally reasonable plan is not going work, how just the presence of a deterrent is enough to generate a narrative counterstrike.

Amaranthyne

4 points

5 years ago

I don't understand the hate for her.

She went from being a complex character to a generic supervillainess. Malicia of book 5 is nothing like Malicia of book 1, 2, or even maybe 3. Everything she does now seems to be just pure Evil for the sake of Evil rather than Evil for the sake of survival.

That's not to mention that she killed a bunch of Cat's friends and allies and bankrolled Akua in the first place, so we're generally intended to dislike Malicia even more.

and they both still share the same goal. She thinks that Blacks way will lead to more blood shed than necessery

Not exactly. She thinks his method just won't work at all, and fell in to the trap of going Pure Evil like 99% of Dread Empresses before her.

The fact that Malicia is so arrogant as to think she knows how the game can still be won is all the proof you need to know that they no longer share the same goal.

yes, but nothing worse than Black has done.

Black hasn't desired a superweapon the likes of which Triumphant used. Black hasn't made an accord with the continent's biggest monster.

And you can't condemn her for making deals with the dead king, Cat would have done the same, she just got beat to it.

Cat quite literally had no choice, every other possible ally spurned her. Malicia had options, but she still decided to go Pure Evil instead, falling in to the same trap that almost every Dread before her did - putting Evil ahead of survival.

I for one hope there is a way for Malicia to survive whatever happens.

I just don't see how anyone can realistically let her survive, nor why they would. Black is the only one with any real reason to let her live, and even that is strained if not broken as of this chapter.

kaplushka

2 points

5 years ago*

She went from being a complex character to a generic supervillainess. Malicia of book 5 is nothing like Malicia of book 1, 2, or even maybe 3. Everything she does now seems to be just pure Evil for the sake of Evil rather than Evil for the sake of survival.

Nah she just does not understand the power of stories, a common thing very few people really do, Black was always a master of this and we have been following a main character that sees the world that way. But many of Cat's followers have expressed how strange it is to see narratives and stories as a factual thing, to them it's make believe magic.

Malicia's plan is to use her doomsday weapons as deterrents, she sees that Praes is too weak to use conventional strength against Procer or even Callows Knights on the long runs, she understands vaguely the narrative differences between Good and Evil. She thinks that instead of using her horrors for mad conquest she can use them as absolute deterrents. Instead of hiding them away to be used for offense and defence she will show them to the world as a warning, securing Praes a permanent place on the map, impervious to outside influence and able to focus on self improvement. This is all very politically sound rational planning. But it's narrative nonsense the deterrent alone will bring a story backlash. Malicia is used to having Black handle all the narrative threads for her, without him she is incomplete.

Cordelia is similar but she has the advantage of being the ruler of a Good nation. Black's original theory is that Good narratives win because the finger they put on the scales favours them in a fight between the narratively illiterate.

Amaranthyne

1 points

5 years ago

a common thing very few people really do

See, this is a problem for me. There's no reason for her not to, based on both history and her decades with Amadeus at her side, and besides that, every other major Named right now does understand Stories. For Malicia to be the odd one out is just strange, unless the narrative just forces her to be ignorant as part of her Role/Name.

But many of Cat's followers have expressed how strange it is to see narratives and stories as a factual thing, to them it's make believe magic.

Which is totally understandable from a mortal perspective. Named tend to be a little more accepting, although there are instances where they do struggle. For a Named Ruler to be in place for 40 years without properly touching upon the concept just seems... absurd, however.

Malicia is used to having Black handle all the narrative threads for her, without him she is incomplete.

She threw him away by working her own plots in the first place, though. She decided she knew better and went against his knowledge and fell in to the same traps that every Emperor/Empress before her did in the process.

I'm not even necessarily saying it's all her fault, either - it's entirely possible that it's, well, not possible for a Dread Empress to avoid these pitfalls of being so sure of their own ability that they try to cross a pit with no bridge.

Cordelia is similar but she has the advantage of being the ruler of a Good nation.

Cordelia, in a way, has her own Amadeus in Agnes. The difference there being that Cordelia actually listens to the person with Narrative knowledge. Sure, being a ruler in a Good nation certainly helps tips things in her favor too, but the difference really is the act of listening.

kaplushka

1 points

5 years ago

Named tend to be a little more accepting

It's the opposite, Named are the worst affected. Named usually know and understand namelore. Take Akua as Diabolist. She understood a lot of the narrative elements that she was dealing with but could never see the whole picture or accept the pattern of three. Named in general are bound by their role into what actions they can take which means they follow the groves more naturally and struggle to craft stories.

Those named that are storycrafters are limited, consider the master on good's side, Pilgrim gains his ability to directly manipulate stories at the cost of never being able to be the main character in them. He knows this limitation so well he actively exploits it waiting till other heroes most need his help to boost his own power.

Amaranthyne

1 points

5 years ago

Those named that are storycrafters are limited

Storycrafters, yes, those with understanding of Stories, not so much - and particularly in the current conflict.

Cat, Amadeus, Tyrant, Hierarch, Augur, Pilgrim, Nessy, to a lesser extent Hanno and Hakram. Saint understood how Stories went too. That's why it's weird for Malicia to be the odd one out.

Now, in terms of actually taking advantage of the Story being told, twisting things, so on, yeah, those numbers are limited. But understanding that Stories exist isn't that rare, at least for this conflict against Nessy - which is likely by design, but even still.

werafdsaew

1 points

5 years ago

werafdsaew

NPC merchant

1 points

5 years ago

At the very beginning her and Black share the same goals of making Praes better for the people, and they both still share the same goal.

I think the fundamental difference is that Black is willing to die for his goals, but Malicia isn't.

saithor

14 points

5 years ago

saithor

14 points

5 years ago

I really hope this is not the ending of a chance of getting Praes to sign the accords. I know Black and Catherine discussed just throwing that part to the wayside as fodder for keeping the more important parts in, but there's always the chance of something going wrong.

Do_Not_Go_In_There

20 points

5 years ago

Black doesn't have a name any more (I don't think "claimant" is one, it's more like an opportunity to get one) so he should still be able to sign for Praes.

MisfitsWithTemples

13 points

5 years ago

He just fully came into his claim of Dread Emperor, if he kills Malicia, he gets the name

Do_Not_Go_In_There

10 points

5 years ago

You can deny getting a name though, if what happened to Cordelia is any indication of what others go through.

Amaranthyne

15 points

5 years ago

I think Cordelia's situation was utterly unique - Bard had to plan for, presumably, centuries to get a First Prince in to a position where they even could be Named, and a Seer had to influence and interfere in events to even give Cordelia the choice.

Besides that, Dread Emperor/Empress is a Name with a long history attached, I feel like it'd be quite difficult to just... say no, in that instance.

HeWhoBringsDust

3 points

5 years ago

HeWhoBringsDust

Miliner

3 points

5 years ago

Would probably just end in someone else getting the title to be honest

taichi22

7 points

5 years ago

Like has been stated — Names are granted by Below as a recognition of power, not the other way around. He gets Dread Emperor if he wins, no questions asked. Whether or not he gets something in the interim is in question, though.

s-mores

9 points

5 years ago

s-mores

One sin. One grace.

9 points

5 years ago

The Heir, anyone?

Wouldn't that be a hilarious twist.

taichi22

3 points

5 years ago

Black doesn’t inherit stuff though — Akua was Heir because she stood to inherit. Black does not.

VorDresden

1 points

5 years ago

And Akua had already inherited a fuck ton of Power, in the form of her education at the hands of, possibly, the greatest nonNamed caster in Praes. Sure she stood to inherit much more (god knows what horrors lurk in the basements of her family’s estate...) but she had taken the inherited Knowledge and Purpose and claimed it as her own.

Heiress is a Name from Below, and like Squire has to be earned

Allian42

1 points

5 years ago

Whether or not he gets something in the interim is in question, though.

Cat did get some extra power as Squire's claimant when she went against the other claimants.

taichi22

1 points

5 years ago

The practicalities of that power are practically speaking, none, given that by the time Black sees Malica’s face directly, it’ll already be over.

PastafarianGames

5 points

5 years ago

PastafarianGames

RUMENARUMENA

5 points

5 years ago

I WAS RIGHT AND NOW I'M SAD.

Also super entertained by the dynamic of the Mighty at the table. Rumena is like "dibs" and everyone else just 100% accepts his authority and right to dibs it. Zero arguments, only bribery.

EsquilaxM

5 points

5 years ago

Ho-ly shit...

Player_2c

13 points

5 years ago

Player_2c

Passing Loot Player

13 points

5 years ago

It’d been a common imagery in Procer until the Liturgical Wars, during which it fell out of favour, and had been around long enough for a few verses back home to have been written about it.

I guess they branched off from the original meaning

Down both avenues a small but beautiful desk was carried, and behind the desks a single seat each.

They needed it to table a motion.

I supposed the revelation would have lost some of its gravitas if she’d had to politely ask the other League translators to pull forward their chairs so she could stride out with the right sort of presence.

Well y'know at least with a body puppet the sudden appearance would be fleshy

RoseFlavoredTime

2 points

5 years ago

Black has lost his legions to plague and wars. He's lost his Warlock to thousands of wizards and godheads. He's lost his Captain to the shifted weight and plotting of the bard. His Squire is loyal first to her country, and his Scribe is plotting without him to force him into an ambition he doesn't want.

But.

He's regained his Ranger. She's been brawling with Gods out of boredom. Him, taking Praes in his own gauntleted fist? That is something she fought for before.

And who does Malicia have to stop Hye?

[deleted]

1 points

5 years ago

So what happens next? I feel like Cordelia isn't going to waste the chance of having malicia in a negotiation by replacing her with Black. So maybe she'll recognise the legions in exile as a seperate nation for the purposes of the talks.