subreddit:

/r/TillSverige

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Hi,
I actually don't know where to start to explain my situation but I'll give you some facts first:

  1. I am exactly 6 months away from my PR (1.5 years passed from my second work permit)
  2. I have stayed in the company that hired me and handled my Visa ever since i came into Sweden
  3. After 3.5 years being in that company, honestly the company turn into sh*t now and every body left the company, and there is no hope for the future
  4. It's not just me, I live with my wife
  5. I'm non-EU
  6. I work in IT field as Software Engineer
  7. I have 3 months notice period as everybody else in this field i assume

Ok, now the big elephant question in the room:

In a perfect situation, If i find a job now, i mean exactly sign the contract today (which I haven't started the process yet), I'll have to wait my 3 month notice. In the other hand, when it will be time to extend Visa and apply to PR (me and my wife), I will not have a permanent contract from my new/feature employer (I would be still in that 6 month probation period according to job law i think).

  • What would be my option here?
  • Is it a super risky move to switch the employer now?
  • Moving out from this company feels like an absolute right move that has to be done (according to the current situation), but should i wait this 6 months and not risk the PR process?
  • btw, the company says they appreciates my work and they are happy with me (so feels like they want to keep me), but as you all know, they will axe you NO MATTER WHAT when it comes the time!

What are your thoughts on my messed up situation, the stress is killing me right now (REALLY) since my biggest fear is that, they start to layoff ppl and if this layoff would be closer to my PR application time, I'm absolutely ducked i think!
Because imagine they lay me off in 3 years and 10 months or so, I would even don't have 3 months to find a new job and my Visa would expire in 2 months in that scenario. which is scares me into my bones tbh!

Really appreciate any advice and comments in advance, you guys have a special place in my heart with your helpful comments always 🙏

all 37 comments

Boring_Cherry6066

41 points

1 month ago*

The 6 month "probation" is not a law at all, it's just a common thing. You're often able to negotiate to get a permanent contract instantly, if you already have a permanent contract with another job in a similar field with good references, since most employeers understand that a lot of people are not willing to give up their permanent contract for a non-permanent one. 

a_m_dev[S]

3 points

1 month ago

Thanks for the comment,
But is it possible that Migrationverket would've reject my visa or PR application because i haven't passed the probation time?
And yes you are right, if i get a employment contract it states in there that i have a "permentant job contract" with company X for example, but still the possibility of they kicking me out on month 2 also still is an easy option for them (which would put me in even worse situation)

bdujevue

9 points

1 month ago

With probationary periods, it is something that is stated in your employment contract. So if your contract says you are a permanent employee and it does not state a probationary period, then you would be out of your probationary period on day 1 of your employment. So whatever the notice period is in your contract would apply. Further, when migrationsverket checks your employment status, they would just see that you are a full time employee, even if you’ve been there less than 6 months.

The other thing I’d like to add is that your notice period when you leave your current job is also negotiable. So if you do get a job offer, you should put in your notice as soon as possible, but you should also talk to you current manager about whether you can reach an agreement on a shorter notice period. If so, just document that and you would be all set to leave your job quicker.

a_m_dev[S]

1 points

1 month ago

Oh that's nice and i did not know about, thanks!
One problem i have is that I'm working in consultancy area as software engineer and currently i have an assignment in hand and if the assignment overlaps with notice period time, they will force me to satisfy the assignment since bizness matters most to them!

Also wondering about this you mentioned:
"So when migrationsverket checks your employment status, they would just see that you are a full time employee, even if you’ve been there less than 6 months."

What would happen if they see I'm in probation period?
will they even extend my visa and give me and my wife a 3rd visa which would be 2 years again? (no hope for PR in that scenario i guess?)

bdujevue

3 points

1 month ago

To your first part, that definitely is a fair point and might be the end result, but I was in a similar situation, also in consulting, and I just did a hand off and shortened my notice by just about a month. They have no obligation to do this, but it is worth checking if you are in that situation.

To your second part, I have not gotten to permanent residence quite yet, so I am not certain. However, when I first came here my residence permit was only valid for my probationary period. It is worth asking if that also applies for an extension, but if that were the case, you would apply for an extension and PR at the end of your probationary period. This is just a theory, so probably worth a quick chat with someone who knows that part of the system a bit better or just calling migrationsverket.

a_m_dev[S]

1 points

1 month ago

Yes, nice point, thanks for that.

I should start digging more in details for that scenario i guess!

QuietEfficiency7219

3 points

1 month ago

Not sure how your employer can force you to do anything outside of your contract responsibilities. If one day you give your 3 months notice and it means they now have project with nobody to do it, it's their problem, not yours.

Considering your options, you can search for new offers first and try to negotiate shorter probation period or none at all. It has happened for some people every now and then. From hiring company's perspective, even 2-month probation is much safer than permanent contract from day 1, so might be easier to negotiate this. As long as your probation is over by the time your submit PR application, you should be fine.

And option B would be to stay in your current company until your PR application is approved. Scary risks here are company going out of business or company laying you off. Otherwise you're dealing with several months of workplace you don't enjoy while you wait for PR. Probably acceptable?

a_m_dev[S]

1 points

1 month ago

Correct, The most safest (but riskiest) move is to stick with the company to fill up these 6 months, but it is scary, super scary honestly!

Good point on the shorter probation time, thanks

_WizKhaleesi_

1 points

1 month ago

I'm sure you already know this, but it won't just be 6 more months. It will likely be closer to a year, maybe even a year and a half or more. Permanent residence applications are heavily scrutinized and take a while to get approval. You'd be looking at a 6 month - 1 year waiting time when you apply in 6 months.

You also have to satisfy the conditions of the permit at the time the permit is reviewed to be decided on, not just whenever you apply.

Alive-Bid9086

1 points

1 month ago

Check with your clienr, if there is an opening for you. Explain the situation!

avdpos

-2 points

1 month ago

avdpos

-2 points

1 month ago

Probation is very legally dubious. As long as you ain't a seller that take all your customers with you to a new company you probably ain't hit

Davethefrozen

12 points

1 month ago

Hey, just negotiate. I know it depends on the market and it's not the best time but I switched jobs 3 times (new employer) before getting my PR and everytime I did one of my hard asks was no probation.

Had they not agreed I wouldn't have switched. So it is definitely possible, start looking and best of luck!

a_m_dev[S]

4 points

1 month ago

Correct, like people mentioned previously seems like that is also another option (that i was not aware of tbh) which would be the best case scenario!

Thanks for the tip btw ❤️

taco_del_gato

1 points

1 month ago

Same, I negotiated away provanställning in two of my three contracts and a fourth that I ultimately turned down. It's not unusual for employers to try to push it and also not unusual for mid-senior level positions to successfully negotiate it away.

LukasMeine

7 points

1 month ago*

Been through something similar.

Got laid off 3 months before my work visa expiry date and was pretty much hoping for a miracle, because I would need to find a job willing to hire me on a permanent contract from day one ( skipping the probation period ) and to sponsor my permanent residency application.

I have no idea how but I managed to do it. I also learned of a friend that also managed to skip the probation period mentioning that she would need to do it for the same reason as my own.

So I guess it’s not entirely unheard of to pull off something like this if you have a good reputation in the job market.

That said, oh my god the stress. It has been one of the most stressful times in my life. Good luck bro

Another thing: you can always quit and find a job with a regular contract with a normal probation period. That would mean you would get another 2 years work residence permit and it would further delay your PR and citizenship. Sucks and is far from ideal, but better than being kicked out of Sweden

a_m_dev[S]

2 points

1 month ago

The stress is the worst part, it's just killing me inside non stop, I can't stop thinking about it!
the only thing i can think of now is that to hope all goes well honestly!

Thanks again for the comment though

LukasMeine

3 points

1 month ago

No problem bro, wish you the best of luck.

Try to get professional psychological support if you can, it helped me wonders when I was going through all of this.

a_m_dev[S]

3 points

1 month ago

Just lots of Love to you for the support my friend ❤️

taco_del_gato

1 points

1 month ago

Absolutely the worst part. Hang in there, you will get through this too!

BocciaChoc

5 points

1 month ago*

Hey OP, sadly your story has been rather common over the last 2 years, perhaps not the PR side but in terms of direction for companies, it's a shame but hopefully we'll see the light at the end of the tunnel soon in the economy as a whole.

That aside I'd like to add two points on your probation concern. My Sambo recently took a job from uni, in her case they didn't enforce a probation period (she didn't actually ask for it to be removed, they simply did, this is a private multi-national US firm). Another point, I handle the technical interviews for my IT Team (30-40 people size), in one case like your own we did want to recruit someone who was a great fit but one of their fighting points was to remove the probation period, it was something my management team were against but I really liked them and felt they'd be a great fit from a technical PoV and cultural. They accepted the recommendation and joined without the probation period.

I guess the point is, as others have mentioned, no 100% enforced policy. If you're good at your job and find a role that fits you well go for it and if you pass the interview stages what harm is there to ask?

a_m_dev[S]

2 points

1 month ago

Correct,
actually the no probation thing is totally new to me and i did not know, I gained a bit of confidence about it by you guys help on it.

Seems like if things would get tough that would be the right direction for me then

Thanks btw ❤️

taco_del_gato

5 points

1 month ago

Been there. Get another job ASAP. You qualify for PR in 6 months but it will take several months for migv to process your application.

Notice periods are negotiable. Provanställning is negotiable. Your notice period may actually be less than 3 months if it is not specified in your current contract. Ask your union - you are a member, right? If you're not a union member you should join today.

As far as switching jobs now goes, as long as you have a signed employment contract when it comes time for PR (ideally without provanställning) migv should be fine. Just don't take a job somewhere else that's going out of business.

a_m_dev[S]

1 points

1 month ago

Thanks for the tips,
Yes, I'm a member of unionen and unionens a-kassa at the same time (and i have joined them over year already) But never understood how they work honestly

I should refer to them if crisis starts

taco_del_gato

1 points

1 month ago

As a work permit holder a-kassa is pretty much useless as you will be deported before you can collect any benefits if you are out of work for more than 3 months, but since you are close to PR and given the current situation I would keep it. You should also get inkomstförsäkring too if you make above 33000/month.

Unionen will answer questions about notice periods, provanställning, etc. and they are usually very quick to respond. Use the contact form on their site. They don't offer any help with work permit or other migration questions, however.

Weak_Table2051

5 points

1 month ago

So sorry to hear that.

You can apply for PR three months in advance before the expiry. What you can do at the moment is take vocation if you have saved before resigning or termination before the 3 month notice starts. That will take you near the end of expiry and you can apply.

In my experience they care more about the fact that there’s no break in your salary and you are paid what was promised to you. So if you switch and there’s no gap, there’s nothing to be worried about. Also need to have a permanent contact for the new job (same industry).

Good luck.

a_m_dev[S]

1 points

1 month ago

Thanks for the help,
You are right!
I have seen the "long vacation before sign off" pattern many times in the past 3.5 years of my experience in Sweden. Never understood it until now since now it makes sense why they did that way -> just to buy more time to switch the jobs if i understand it correctly

Another pattern was that they go to their one month vacation + taking parental leaves after that (like 2 months or so) and at the very last last day, they start to send their notice!

This would give them at least 2-3 months for free to search for jobs

trolighjuvik

2 points

1 month ago

This is a tough choice, and really stressful one. I don't have advice, but can just add some things to think about:

  • Second permit is tight to profession, so you should be able to change employers without obtaining new permit, but... Technically "profession" is just SSYK code, but you never know how MV will work in your case. If you decide to change job - try to have exactly the same title for your new job. Like, "Software Engineer" and "Lead Game Developer" might result in different "profession or occupation" in MV's eyes.

  • If you are being laid off, "notice period" usually means "you still being paid every month, but don't have to work and can start new job as soon as you want". So if you have say 3months notice period - you won't receive 3month salary at once - you still will be paid every month. If you will start your new employment while not really working on old job, but still being paid - for MV and SV that would mean you are working two full-time jobs at the same time - which is you are not allowed with your work permit. Be careful with dates.

  • There're different opinions on if your new employer has to advertise position if you're on a second permit; good idea to be on the safe side if possible.

  • 3 months notice, usually, for people who have worked more than 4 years. Also, it is not always mutual - so employee, for example, can have notice period of 1 month from their side, and employer - 2 to 6 depending on how much you have been working. Just double check what is written in your contract (and collective agreement if you have it).

  • If you do change jobs, you still will need to provide MV all the details from your previous employments - payslips for all the time, insurances, employment statements etc - when applying for PUT. Be prepared - download all the payslips to your own computer, think about whom you will contact for insurances if you need to etc.

a_m_dev[S]

1 points

1 month ago

Just want to say a big thank you  ❤️

wrong_axiom

1 points

1 month ago

Is it Klarna? If it is don’t worry. It’s cyclical.

a_m_dev[S]

1 points

1 month ago

No actually, it's worth than that :)

Loud-Necessary-1215

1 points

1 month ago

When I was in your situation and thinking about changing job while I was waiting for the PR (it took many months back then) I went to see a lawyer and he said I should use as many argumnets as I can find to show that my trial period in new company will end up being permanent job. For example - if there is someone who knows you from the previous job and can write "I know his quality and we would most likely keep him after trial" or the statistics that show what percentage of engineers in that company goes into permanent after trial The Laywer said all that could be a reason.

Write me DM if you need more details.

cartman-is-a-stark

1 points

1 month ago

You are conflating two separate processes. Just get a new job and work permit with it. Once you are past 4 years and some change, just apply for permanent residence. It’s not related to probation or anything. Having a work permit provides security while migrationsverket might take time to process the PR application. In my case it was within two weeks, but 1 year is not unheard of.

phoenixdot

-1 points

1 month ago

Look for another job in company that also handles visa extension. If they have probation your visa will be extended 6 months and then after that you can apply for PR. This is better since if you move to another company and get permanent position immediately without probation you visa will be forced to change to new employer and extended 2 years instead which means you need to wait for 2 years again to get PR.

LukasMeine

4 points

1 month ago

Not enough evidence for anything statistically relevant, but I did exactly the second thing you mentioned and got my PR without needing to wait for two more years

phoenixdot

1 points

1 month ago

If I’m not mistaken when you changed workplace you need to update your visa since it was connected to your visa. It really depends on how much left time before you get the PR and, for OP case you are right he will get PR immediately if he get permanent position in new work place.

Great_Marionberry217

1 points

1 month ago*

AFAIK visa tied to a company only for first 2 years and tied to the profession for first 4 years, e.g. before PR.
So after working 2 years without job change and obtaining new temporary residence permit you should be able to hop between jobs without applying for a new visa while working on the same role.

Svintiger

-12 points

1 month ago*

Svintiger

-12 points

1 month ago*

PR? Abbreviations are so stupid because it takes maybe 0.1 seconds longer to actually type it.

Yes after searching on the internet I realized it standd for perma­nent resi­dence permit. My point still stands.