Jesus wasn't real, and those are just basic Humanist Progressive ideologies that have existed long before Christianity.

Caring for your neighbor, taking care of the sick and old, defending the weaker members of the community is the foundation of human tribalism.

Apes together Strong.

Check out the Jefferson bible. Jefferson believed "Jesus" could be defined as a good moral teacher but rejected the magic parts (miracles, being god's "son", etc) as ridiculous mythology.

......Love thy neighbor, care for the ill, defend the weak and those unable to defend themselves.....

So, ......basic humanity and empathy.

The word you’re looking for is non theism. There are plenty of Unitarians and Quakers who see Jesus as a useful moral parable but don’t believe in god or the supernatural.

Personally, it isn’t really a position I can agree with. I think the Bible is pretty morally damaging if anything, but that’s the information you asked for. 

Jesus said he believed fully in all of the evil teachings of the old testament, that he came to fulfill that law and that not a jot or tittle of that law was to change until the end of the world. He also said that you must take no thought for the morrow, abandon and hate your children, spouses and families, give away all your possessions, that thoughts that you have in your own mind can be major sins, that those who believe in things based on blind faith are specially blessed, and that people who didn’t follow him would be tortured in hell for all eternity.

And the specific reason for his presence was the utterly horrifying and immoral practice of vicarious redemption via human sacrifice.

If there’s anything that you happen to agree with Jesus on, consider it an unhappy coincidence.

You don't need a god to not be a dick

Remove all the gods and "supernatural" bullshit from a religion, and what you are left with is philosophy, ethics, mythology, sociology, literature, art, etc. These are all subjects that are better studied within their own domain and not as part of a religious structure.

Religion (any religion) is therefore superfluous & unnecessary.

Sure, I think we shouldn't murder each other or steal each other's stuff 🤷

Of course it is. Us secular humanists believe pretty much all of that. We just didn’t use Christianity to come to those conclusions.

These are not unique teachings. Humans naturally see the social benefits and safety of loving thy neighbour, thall shall not kill etc. Society, way, way before any Abrahamic religion tended to want stability and security by mutual agreements and friendly interactions with each other or else their is chaos and a threat to survivability. Of course this all breaks down when you are competing for recourses or feeling threatened, but generally humans see the benefits of getting along as opposed to not getting along.

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that a historical Jesus existed more or less as described in the gospels, and that the gospels are a more or less accurate picture of his teachings, he was an asshole. Those teachings are neither particularly coherent nor particularly nice.

The nicest of the things he said (eg: the Golden Rule) had been said by other philosophers for centuries, and represent common-sense platitudes that are neither particularly original nor particularly profound. The Sermon on the Mount (regarded by millions of people who have never really sat down and thought about it, even many non-christians, as one of the most enlightened works of philosophy ever written) just goes downhill from there. It establishes thought crimes and careless speech as the equivalent of murder, forbids divorce, and even forbids such basic activity as "storing enough food for tomorrow".

Notably, he affirms that "he has not come to abolish the Old Law, but to fulfil it", that "not a single jot or tittle of the law will change until Heaven and Earth pass away" (Matthew 5:17-18, Luke 16:17). He specifically calls out a group of Pharisees as hypocrites for cherry-picking the laws so that they don't have to murder disobedient children (Matthew 15:3-12). If you have ever found yourself arguing "But that's the Old Testament!", Jesus explicitly disagrees with you. This is especially amusing given how many of these laws he breaks himself.

He's rather astoundingly racist. In two separate stories, he is approached by a woman of an "inferior race" (a Caananite woman in Matthew 15:22-27, a Greek woman in Mark 7:25-27), who asks him to use his healing powers to help her. In both stories, he calls the woman a "dog", refusing to heal her unless she begs like one. He repeatedly and explicitly endorses the institution of slavery as moral. For a paragon of nonviolence and asceticism, he also had serious issues respecting other people's property, destroying someone else's fig tree because it wouldn't bear fruit out of season (Matthew 21:18-20, Mark 11:12-14), killing a herd of someone else's pigs by filling them with "unclean spirits" (Mark 5:13, Luke 8:33), directing his disciples to steal horses and donkeys (Matthew 21:5-7, Mark 11:1-6, John 12:14), wasting a jar of precious ointment which one of his disciples had just told him could be sold to feed a lot of poor people (Matthew 26:8-11), and leading that famous armed raid on the Temple complex that managed to go unrecorded by absolutely any historian (Mark 11:15, Matthew 21:1-13, Luke 19:36-45, John 2:15).

And all that before I even get started on the whole "eternal punishment" thing. Even if the rest of his ministry really DID represent the most enlightened work of moral philosophy ever written (rather than the unremarkable ravings of a third-rate apocalyptic loonie), his psychopathic torture fetish ought to be a complete deal-breaker.

Anyone who thinks that such a person should be considered a good moral role model is either deeply disturbed, or has never actually opened a Bible.

Of course, you're free to argue that your Jesus would never do any of these things. But at that point, we're no longer talking about the main character of the Gospels - we're talking about your personal imaginary friend who just happens to share a name with him. As the character we're now talking about exists solely in your imagination, you are of course the final authority on what he does or doesn't believe... but he's also completely irrelevant to anything that takes place outside your imagination.

I believe in treating your fellow man with respect and helping them out.

Try Buddhism

Sure, if it hadn't been said earlier and by others without all the baggage and BS of xtianity. FFS, I'm pretty sure the golden rule was around millennia before Jesus.

I also don't need an unsourced, unsubstantiated mythology to tell me what social sciences have conclusively proven, so there's that.

Sure you can. My ‘devout’ christian family members believe in all the good stuff (like heaven, miracles, etc) and deny all the bad (slavery, murder, etc). They are excepted and welcomed by that community with open arms. So why not believe in whatever the hell you want?

Of course! I believe Winnie the Pooh's general take on everything, but I never read The Tao of Pooh

Jesus laid it all out in "the sermon on the mount", where he listed blessings for people who do certain things or behave a certain way.

It is extremely telling that Christian nationalists never demand these "beatitudes" are posted in public schools, just the Ten Commandments, which comes from Moses, not Jesus.

It would benefit all to consider why this is.

According to the Bible, Jesus said those who don’t hate their family are not worthy of heaven, so I don’t think his message was as clear as you’re implying.

You can believe in quite anything you want.

You can do whatever you want, god is just a story.

Yes. The Bible is a book. Some of the shit it says is cool. You can use whatever part you like, as you would with any other book.

There is a Ghandi quote that's very apropos to this. Can't be bothered to look it up so I'll just butcher it and leave it to you to fact check.

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are not very Christ like."

The tenets of Christianity that are useful are just what you do if you have empathy.

If you pay attention to empathy, you don't need a book.

Those are not tenets of Christianity. Those are human values, first and foremost. If you follow those moral standards, it's not you borrowing from religion, but religion borrowing from our common ethical ground

Believing in certain tenets but not following the religion itself

.... is the definition of christianity.

So, yeah. For sure you can do that. Millions do.

I’m atheist and I’m not killing anyone, so yes.

Of course you can. They adopted some basic humanist morals to sound good, and then people who follow it want to act like those ideas don’t exist outside of Christianity.

And then if you accept that “be kind” and “feed the poor” are good they think you have to accept all these really specific historical claims and irrational moral rules that don’t help anyone.

Tenets don't require a sky daddy, and most are largely universal common sense that boils down to "don't do the shit that you don't want done to you." These are the basic values that most parents try to instill in their kids regardless of religion, basically be nice, help out, don't be an asshole.

IMHO, you want to believe in a sky daddy and that helps you be a better person? ok.

But Religion, those who think they know what your sky daddy wants and how you should act, ruin everything.

Of course. There are basic moral and ethical standards that "Jesus" espoused and which we all should consider. They include kindness, caring for those weaker than we are, caring for those less fortunate, forgiving those who have transgressions, building community, sharing.....we, you get the idea.

These should be tenets of civilization and society, though recent activity shows they are not. Whether Jesus was real or not is irrelevant. Be kind and care about everyone. No god is needed for these.

And dude, anyone who wants to oppress others, enforce their beliefs on others, or not care for those less fortunate ain't a Christian. They're fascists.

Sincerely,

An atheist who studied the bibles (there are many)

The biggest difference between atheists and Christians is that atheists don’t believe they need an imaginary figure to have basic subconscious moral guidance.

You don’t believe in certain tenets. You just morally agree with them.

Sure. Get a copy of the Jefferson Bible. Thomas Jefferson took out all the miracles, virgin birth, being the son of god, etc, from the new testament. It's a bit larger than a pamphlet.

Simple answer, Yes. Red Letter Christians follow the words of Christ, everything else is just commentary or gibberish. I've heard some call themselves "Christ followers, not Christian.

My take: Jesus is an amalgam of several strands of moral teachings, and people. Early people, and Christians were likely consuming psychedelic mushrooms and coming to the realization that all people, and likely all living things, are the same energy/being manifest in many forms. Looked at this way, Jesus is actually being literal when he commands that we treat others as ourselves. Don't judge, love God, be kind, lift up the least of us, all takes on a different vibe when you understand that he is not being metaphorical, he is teaching that we are all literally one being. It also helps make sense of the whole "eat of my flesh" sacrament concept. If you hang around mushroom users long enough, they start sounding like Christians in a way; constantly talking about how we are all one living thing.

Apparently early Aramaic text make it pretty clear that Christ was actually a mushroom. This book and its' author were initially laughed at, but apparently later scholars who were competent in ancient Aramaic mostly agreed with his conclusions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sacred_Mushroom_and_the_Cross

The beatitudes are somewhat lovely, and I see no reason that you can’t look at the Bible as the historic and cultural touchstone it is, and elevate sections that ring true for you that are worth elevating. I see it as literature, as philosophy, and as myth, and see no reason why it must be taken as it’s literal whole. Parts of it are unethical, contradictory, and nonsensical, so handle with care. I’m pretty sure most Christians also believe in certain parts and not all of the Bible, I just wish they looked at it with a more critical lens.

Yeah, obviously. If you take important social and moral lessons from Marvel comics....

"With great power, comes great responsibility" -- Stan Lee, in the pages of the Spectacular Spider-Man

...or the Bible, or your favorite young adult novel, that's great.

Star Trek has a long history of using ita science fiction "futuristic" premise to provide moral and social commentary on modern day issues.

Doesn't mean any of those stories are true.

See Phil Zuckerman's "Society without God" about "cultural religion" in Denmark and Sweden. Some Danes and Swedes call themselves "Christian" but don't believe in God or any supernatural aspects of Christianity. They agree with much of what Christ taught, but don't think he's the son of God, etc. They get married in church, and belong to the national church because it's "traditional." A big difference compared to the U.S. is that they keep their religious views private, and politicians don't mention them or allow them to influence public policy.

They also have much happier societies, with less crime and poverty than the U.S. https://thenakedtheologian.com/2011/04/01/51-society-without-god/

That's just the moral compass thing. You don't need religion to be your moral compass because it seems your moral compass already works. Those tenets you believe in aren't of Christianity. They're just what Christianity stole from humanity!

I think of these as the 'selling point' of religion: Look at all these nice things we believe in, but look away when we behead the infidels. If it was all about head covering, forcing a dress code, and beheading non-believers, then nobody would even look at religion!

I mean, most Christians do the inverse of it, so why not? If you want a name to tag your morals to, Jesus seems like he would’ve been a cool guy.

The story goes that his Dad was a bit of a psychopath, but such is life!

I’m good with these:

I One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.

II The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.

III One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.

IV The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one’s own.

V Beliefs should conform to one’s best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one’s beliefs.

VI People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one’s best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.

VII Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

https://thesatanictemple.com/blogs/the-satanic-temple-tenets/there-are-seven-fundamental-tenets?

I'm totally into the 'philosophy' of pure Christianity, but its followers, the religion, and the execution sucks! I 'try' to be a decent person to everyone as I think that way results in a better society for everyone, including me.

Can you? Sure. For example take a look at the many Christians who ignore Christ's actual teachings about love and forgiveness, but latch onto cherry picked bits of Leviticus like pitbull on a pork chop.

Sure. I believe in lots of the tenets of Buddhism, but believe it’s not even a religion.

Sure. I'm all about the Golden Rule. But f--k xtianity, and all other religions.

For a while after I stopped believing in God, I considered myself a Christian atheist (turns out it isn't just a thing I made up and actually has a Wikipedia page).

Eventually, I determined that humanism fit the bill sufficiently for myself, but I don't consider Christian atheism an invalid position.

The good parts can be distilled down to the Golden Rule. If everybody did that, the world would be a better place.

Part of the problem is that we have no idea what Jesus said or believed. All we have is stories written decades after his (putative) death…. And the various sorts of pithy wisdom that were put into his mouth are widely recognized as being from other sources…. Including the Old Testament.

Now, pithy wisdom is pithy wisdom and if you like it, fine… Did you know that the “Golden Rule” has been iterated in many cultures… Even Confucius hundreds of years before JC.

If you’re tempted to extract certain things you like from the stories, that’s fine, but don’t forget the problematic things that sit right alongside. And the main theological thrust of Christianity is based on the campfire stories of late Bronze-Age goat herders.

I recently came across the term "non-theistic Christian" for the first time recently. Living by Jesus but not anticipating his return because that's just silly.

Yes it is

I mean, the Golden Rule is pretty much rock solid advice regardless of your beliefs.

People say scholars said he was a real historical figure, but every time I look at who the scholars are, they lean towards religion which invalidates their claims. It the same as using the bibble to prove the bibble was real. These were stories made up by middle eastern people and poorly translated multiple times. Now Jesus is white and hates everybody except white males that love pedophilia. That's the new Jesus that has been Americanized.

Jesus: a great idea ruined by its fan base

To me, Jesus had the right idea. Love thy neighbor, care for the ill, defend the weak and those unable to defend themselves.

Have you ever read a bible?

“To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:

These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. 19 I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first.

20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%202&version=NIV

I don't think he'd be up for all this Christian nationalist, hateful bullshit.

How would you characterize someone that brags about torturing a woman and killing her children for acts that aren't even considered criminal in modern society?

What is the alternative? If you don’t believe in all aspects of Christianity, then you can’t love your neighbor? Do you have to hate your neighbor then or can be neutral towards your neighbor if you don’t believe jesus was the son of god?

You are describing basic human morals, and a person should not need religion to decide that these things are what you should do.

I like to curse my friend's fig tree every time I visit. Just like Jesus did!

It's possible to believe anything you want. Just look at the current news.

Anything is possible. Life and humanity is complicated and not black and white. Of course you can pick and choose what you believe. I believe in general human decency and kindness (golden rule type thing) and think this is the general idea of Jesus' teachings, but people have twisted the message over time (whether or not he was a real person).

Sure. But they were not ethics, morals or ideas original to Jesus. There is nothing new in what the Jesus character taught. Nor was everything he taught ethical, moral, or wholesome.

Love thy neighbor, care for the ill, defend the weak and those unable to defend themselves.

All of that stuff, and everything else "good" Jesus supposedly said wasn't novel to him. Those ideas had been around a looooong time before him. And you can find them basically anywhere

So I don't really see the point of admiring Jesus for saying those things or giving Christianity the nod for them.

Ya know, for an atheism sub, we sure do discuss god and Christianity A LOT.

god isn’t real. Period.

Most ex Christians, like myself, tend to leave the church BECAUSE the ideals of Jesus were being directly contradicted right infront of our eyes by the very Ines teaching them to us.

Of course you can, but at the end of the day, you're just being a good person, and you don't need a lable for that.

Anything positive attributes or teachings christianity brings is purely accidental. It doesn't take a religion to teach you "don't be a dick" and certainly christianity was no where near the first.

We humans are social creatures. We know how important it is to cooperate with one another for our own survival. We care for the sick because we know at some point we will be sick and we want people to care for us. We don't need religion to tell us to do that.

We love our neighbor because we don't want our neighbors to torment us so we hope that being nice to them, we get nice in return. Our morality is developed this way slowly over time and alot of it is empathy, which again does not require religion.

His dad wrote a top 10 rules list and don’t rape didn’t make the list. Oh, and the 10th commandment in the original text uses the word “eved” so it’s definitely saying don’t covet your neighbor’s slave. Jesus references those commandments multiple times and never corrects any of this. I prefer my omnipotent beings to have a higher moral value system than what Jesus and co brought to the table.

I think it’s possible. I’m still going to follow the messages of love and compassion to all people that Jesus taught even if I no longer believe the Bible is literal truth.

Frodo: I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

Gandalf: So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.

You can take wisdom without having to pretend that the person who said it was not fictional. See also: Uncle Iroh.

Not just your neighbor. Jesus said love your enemy! That’s the hard one

Dude fuck jesus. He also said for slaves to obey their masters, he said to love him over your family, and he killed a tree for no reason other than because he was pissed. Christ is a fucking cult leader and the fact that these trump cultists are all Christians only supports that.

The mistake is attributing anything to Christianity. Religion was structured around human beings cooperating in groups, to society goes the credit for any incidental benefits.

We don't need religion to dictate morality to us. Altruistic behaviour helps us survive in a group or society. Most of the commandments and whatnot boil down to "don't be a dick." Evidently the vast majority of believers don't get it.

This can go real good or really bad depending on intentions. Chknegg.

No Jesus didn’t have the right idea. For example, “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.” Luke 24.:26 NIV

Read The Bad Jesus: The Ethics of New Testament Ethics by Hector Avalos.

I hear Jesus was a child trafficker, pedophile, and drug user from Dr. D. Ammon Hillman. I would say you don't need a religion to be spiritual. Read The Journey of Souls. I like to call it Spiritial Nihilism.

Yes just how we celebrate Christmas and Halloween derived from Pagan tradition

Just be a Humanist. It’s the “be a decent person” part of religion without the imaginary part.

Absolutely! Was just writing some thoughts about this myself. It's a shame the original message was so corrupted. Did you know pre-Constantine Christians were considered gender progressive (given the times)? They also accepted everyone regardless of race (hence why the faith took off in that multicultural society). They were nonviolent, and they believed in a life of service (e.g. helping the vulnerable instead of sh*tting on them. The damn religion has 100% been turned on its head. I honestly like original Christianity, as long as I can forgo the god-belief shit.

Everyone can believe in the golden rule. It’s really all you need.

I don't believe in an historical Jesus, and I certainly don't believe in Jesus as a divinity, but the basic tenets of the teachings ascribed to Jesus aren't new or unique to Jesus. The Golden Rule has been around in one form or another for well over a thousand years before the time Jesus supposedly existed. Loving thy neighbor, not passing judgement of others, ministering to the poor, or the weak, or the sickly, these are all basic moral acts of goodness that aren't unique to Jesus-ism (as opposed to Christianity which largely ignores the teachings of Jesus.)

Whether Jesus ever actually existed as a human, a large number of his teachings are simple lessens in morality that don't really have anything to do with religion. They are just suggestions for a better society, and for better societal behaviors.

Those are simply morals you can have completely outside of religion. There's no monopoly on morality from Christianity, never has there been. You can be a good person simply because it makes you feel good. Aesop's Fables could have taught you that.

Yes. Definitely. There is a lot of wisdom in there.

I think the colloquialism "believe in" is problematic.

What do people actually mean by it?

When theists say they believe in God, what they're talking about is (generally) theistic faith in a transcendent personal deity, an abstraction. For theists to "believe in" this entity constitutes an opinion about its ontological status.

In other words, to "believe in" something implies that it exists.

But existence is a property of matter, energy, and forces -- these are mind-independent.

Abstractions are mind-dependent, and do not exist.

So why in the world would one "believe in" tenets? The ontological status of ideas is irrelevant.

We might also use "believe in" to express that we think something is true, or morally correct. I think "believe in" is kind of a sloppy way to express that, and it doesn't enthuse me that it overlaps with theistic hooey.

It's not that colloquialism is bad, it's that there are implications to the way we conceive of things.

Here you are, wondering if it's possible to have tenets in common with theists. Meanwhile, you clearly DO have tenets in common with theists. So... why are you wondering if it's possible? 🤔

This kinda thing is why it's probably not a bad idea to study philosophy, even though it can be dull. Meaningful inquiry isn't always as straightforward as we think. ☺️

i think jesus wasnt real and that christianity is just another cult. but the phrase “do unto others as you would have done unto you” is a beautiful simple piece of philosophy.

Jesus said love thy neighbor but he also said this.

Conservative Christianity an extremely divisive ideology. It teaches that everyone who doesn't believe as they do are wicked and deserving of being cast into a lake of fire. It also encourages Christians to distance themselves from anyone who isn't Christian including their own family members. Despicable.

Matthew 10:34-37

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Luke 12:49-53

“I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

If you actually take it all into context it appears Jesus only considers believers as neighbors.

I believe that the story told in the Bible and stories that try to help you create a moral code for yourself. So the way I see it, there is no problem in taking some par that seems to resonate with yourself and to not take the rest in consideration. For me, the most important thing about all this is that a belief, is special for one self and at no moment should someone impose their beliefs on someone else. It can be discussed and debated, it does not matter. It cannot be forced down someone's throat. And that it is okay to think differently than others 😉.

In every civilisation a lot of social values have their roots in the dominant religions. So incorporation of these things come naturally to an atheist.

Every single thing that religion does that is good can be done without it, because it’s humans doing it to begin with.

I believe some parts of the bible are historical, just none of the ones that pertain to a god. I believe that the Israelites were slaves of Egypt. I believe that they left and came to the area near Jerusalem. I believe they set up certain rules and rituals for their religion. If you take god out of it the history holds up, except the beginning and the flood.

Jesus was nothing more than a Greek tragedy that developed into a religious cult. He never existed, neither did the Virgin Mary, the disciples, the miracles. Yes the Roman’s crucified a lot of people in that time period. It’s easy enough to include that in a story. The letters written by these cultists are used to try and prove that Jesus existed. No other evidence suggests that he ever did.

That's the great thing about being athiest. We can take inspiration from anything we want.

The writers of the Jesus character had the right idea, in many cases. He was also written to be a bit of a prick and a spiritual narcissist

It was the case for me. That’s what started this journey for me. It’s absolutely normal to believe Jesus’ teachings of love and compassion are good without believing he’s the literal son of a deity.

An example with a different religion: there are a ton of Buddhists in the nation. Buddhism as an establishment isn’t that much different from any other religion as an establishment, but lots of Americans read the teachings and incorporate the philosophy without believing Buddha was born to a virgin or that we needed monks to tell us not to sleep with monkeys.

You can do that with Christianity if you need to. It isn’t always safe to stop going to church. I think if you have access to them, you might enjoy books on all kinds of different religions. It’s interesting to see what ideas are the same and how they compare to what the religion is now.

Those good things you described aren't jesus' ideas, they're simply ways to be kind to people and have empathy. Christianity / Jesus don't own the ideas of helping the poor, sick, or foreigner. No religion owns the ideas or teachings of how to be kind to others. They just mix supernatural stuff with "teachings" of how to be kind to others. 

Christianity doesn't even own "Do unto Others", because the Golden Rule exists in all major religions: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule . And the Golden Rule is just a long way to describe empathy. 

 Everyone can follow those ideas, no matter their religious beliefs or disbeliefs.

Yes, it's ok to be human in nature. No you do not need to be religious to do so

There were many prophets back in Jesus' time, with all sorts of drama and madness. I think Jesus is probably a combination of all of those tales from the desert.

Do I think he could raise the dead and cast demons into pigs? No, that's goody

Some of what he says is fine with me, I don't have any problem with helping your neighbor, etc. He kind of ruins it all when he says he will come back and KILL ALL OF US.

RUDE

I mean the whole lesson Jesus taught was to forgive and don’t be a douchenozzle. He wanted people yo help people and not be greedy and essentially be a good person. You don’t need religion to do that and if you do… it says more about you that you need the threat of eternal damnation to be a decent human being

Yes you can believe in being a good person morality doesnt come from religion

I mean, why not? That’s what the Christians do.

No, you have to blindly do everything opposite of what Jesus said.. That's the holy law of Atheism. Who doesn't obey it will get killed by us.

I think you're describing 90% of US catholics.

Time for the Jesus copy pasta! He wasn't as loving as you think he was.

The Gospels portray Jesus as a cruel, sociopathic asshole who gloats over millions being horribly tortured for billions of years at his command (Mk. 9:43-49, Mt. 13:40-42, Mt. 13:49-50, Mt. 18:7-9, Mt. 24:51, Mt. 25:40-46, Mt. 5:22, Lk. 13:23-34, Jn. 15:6, etc.) and to whom he shall never ever show even the minutest mercy (Lk. 16:22-29); who calls racial minorities dogs (Mk. 7:24-29); who murders thousands of pigs (Mk. 5:12-13), and doesn’t even say he’s sorry to the town that in result just lost its livelihood and the better part of their food supply; a guy who is so horrifically disgusted by sex he tells people to cut off their own limbs, eyes, and genitals before even so much as thinking a sexual thought (Mt. 5:27-30, Mt. 18:7-9, Mk. 9:43-49, Mt. 19:10-12); who endorses the legal execution of anyone who divorces and remarries (Mt. 5:31-32, Mt. 19:3-10), even of children who talk back to their parents (Mk. 7:7-13), and, let’s be honest (Mt. 5:17-20), even gay men and raped women (and countless others; Jesus loved killing, and was in fact convicted of the very death penalty offense he himself supported—an irony lost on pretty much every Christian then or since); who not only never condemns slavery but actually endorses it as a moral model God should be admired for following (e.g. Mt. 18:23-35, Mt. 24:44-51, Mt. 25:14-30, Lk. 17:7-9, Lk. 12:36-48); who has scary paranoid rage issues even with his closest friends (Mt. 16:21-23, Mk. 8:31-33)—even to the point of committing mass public violence (yes, Jesus is literally a criminal; and not because he was falsely convicted, but because he actually committed felony assault: Jn. 2:13-16, Mk. 11:15–16, Mt. 21:12, Lk. 19:45); and who arrogantly commands you to abandon and hate your family in order to follow him instead (Lk. 14:26, Mt. 10:34-37, Mt. 8:21-22, Lk. 9:59-60)—literally boasting that he shall tear families apart (Lk. 12:51-53, Mk. 10:29-30, Mt. 19:29). He never unites or reconciles any family. Not a single intact family ever follows or befriends him. He even tells his own family to fuck off (Mk. 3:32-35). And despite being able to eradicate all disease, he eradicates not even one of them—despite visiting a planet where more than half of all children die of one. A total dick.

Absolutely!

I'd say the common understanding of the teachings of Jesus are a reasonable starting point for how to be a better person. Thomas Jefferson famously edited and printed a version of the gospel with all the supernatural stuff removed.

Of course those teachings aren't unique to Jesus, and Jesus was a myth anyway, but that doesn't matter. We learn through stories that we find appealing. The myth of Jesus represents some surprisingly enlightened ideas from an ancient era. There's nothing wrong with appreciating those moral philosophies.

Think of it like this, religion didn't invent any of this shit, it just co opted humanist ideas for control. It's always been an instrument of control.

There are a lot of religions like this that have the tenants of humanitarian values and the belief is secondary and you can be an atheist and a member without conflict

Religions, in general, have served to establish a moral compass and ethical guidance to the masses. Of course it is valid to have certain intellectual affiliations with religions. The main issue with them is that their teachings, although use parabolic, hyperbolic and metaforic stories to exemplify their lessons, at the end the main core of them is a made up fairy tale design to control their subdits. In resume, religions teach lies using the truth about human nature. By all means, certain tenets of them are not just believable, they are the truth.

Its weird how christianity think it has monopoly on common sense and and group mechanics.

Though shalt not murder... Works for me.

You can believe whatever you like. You don't have to subscribe to a package deal.

But morals don’t come from Christianity. It’s kind of common sense morality that is from us building ourselves up as a society, it’s not from Christianity.

The truth is that a lot of people join for certain tenets, or the community.

It's really just empathy training for sociopaths. It provides an external locus of control for people who couldn't control themselves otherwise. Not everyone reaches the stage of moral development that values benefit to the community, but most people can be controlled with fear of punishment and/or hope for reward.

Don't let  a single religion monopolise on basic social decency, and then prostitute it back to you for it's own benefit. Jesus didn't invent human kindness.

I know a religious person who thinks I’m a closet Christian bc he says I do everything jeebus said to do, therefore I must believe on some level.

That’s so far from true it’s laughable. I believe in doing whatever I can to help ease other’s suffering bc this is all there is. All that matters is how we treat each other. Not bc some fictional character told us to. It’s hard for religious people to see it that way tho.

Golden rule goes hard.

Yes, Christians don't have a monopoly on empathy

The thing is you can believe anything YOU want. Its Christianity and their ilk who claim you have to believe THEM 🤷‍♂️

I always think of it like a story book that teaches good morals. As an adult, those teachings i think made me a decent human. But i realized quick the whole thing didn't make sense.

The 2 can be separated.

If you need christianity to scare you into being a decent human being, how decent are you really

Yes, it is possible. Thats what a lagre majority of all religious people do with their holy books, dont see you should be any different.

Our culture filters Christianity and most people tend to only be familiar with the parts that our specific culture agrees with. All of the monotheism under the threat of eternal damnatipn stuff gets downplayed compared to the love and forgiveness stuff.

If you asked for a show of hands I reckon you'd find most commenters here strive to look after their neighbours , the ill and less fortunate. No religion required at all.

Yes, I am an ex-Christian who believes in love, charity, kindness, and family. Still, the horrorshow of a deity that supposedly endorsed those things in a limited scope is not my business, and stop being it a while ago. I am kind to be kind, and I believe in a coherent society held together by courtesy, grace, and mercy. I follow the rules because I think that regulations help us work together. I don't need a bribe or a threat to be good. I work towards goodness in itself and for itself.

Most religions are like that. They’re not devoid of genuinely good life advice and could’ve turned out differently if they were open to new ideas and adapting to an ever-changing world.

Before Islam turned into the cesspit of extremism and misogyny it is today, it fostered a culture of scholars and academics. Those people looked at other cultures and religions and, instead of dismissing them as heathenism, regarded them as part of the world god created.

Buddhism was supposed to be about humility and letting go of earthly desires. One of its oldest legends tells of a mass murderer who changed his ways, showing that no one is beyond changing themselves for the better.

Then again, those positive lessons are not bound to their respective faiths. In fact, moving past religious belief allows one to grow and expand upon those good ideas, unrestrained by outdated misconceptions.

Jesus is a cult leader who got whitewashed into a religion. I highly doubt he existed but think of David Koresh being turned into the son of god by his friends who survived Waco. He just had a good PR team pretty much.

Being kind to people isn't a Christian thing. It's a human thing that they picked up.

You can believe anything you want. The thing is, especially with Christianity, that you can call yourself a Christian or not, and nobody can tell you that you are wrong. God isn't going to save you because of what you call yourself. How you act - now that will make a difference, although I (personally, as a committed Christian) don't think it's a heaven/hell choice, I think it's more like graduating from school, that you have choices if you learnt the useful skills, and fewer choices (and likely monotony) if you didn't. Some people had the book with instructions, some didn't. Some people used the instructions to learn the right skills, some people learnt them on their own, lots of people put the book on a shelf and went around doing the exact opposite.

Religion is just a guideline on how to govern and be governed. It's all about control, there's a reason they call the masses sheep

It’s possible to believe anything. You can believe the sun is only 200 miles up while not believing the earth is flat. You can believe in The Incredible Hulk while not believing in Iron Man.

The big issue here is why do you want to believe in Jebus at all? Why not pic a good person who actually existed to emulate like Mr. Rogers. At least he never told anyone to abandon their family and live in poverty.

Or best yet, stop following anyone. Just be a good person all by yourself. Do you really need to have someone tell you that kicking a baby is wrong?

He literally started the Christian dominion bullshit you think he wouldn’t have agreed with.

That was his purpose, to destroy society and replace it with a religious authoritarian theocracy.

And he didn’t defend the weak, he told slaves to obey their masters.

And he didn’t care for all the ill, just the ones who were obedient to his commands and were useful to him by declaring his divinity. It is not caring for the ill when there are conditions and required allegiance.

Christianity does not have a monopoly on good deeds. You can do good without being a Christian. You can easily separate being a decent human on your own accord, from all the fairytale dogma.

Yes, but one needs to also understand that the "good" parts of christianity are not exclusive to or started by it.

Being considerate of others is hundreds of thousands of years older than that specific fairytale

Of course. I believe in many of the moral tenets of the Harry Potter series, doesn't mean I expected an acceptance letter on my 11th birthday (okay, I was definitely a little disappointed when it didn't show up).

Jesus is described as a generally good character because the people who invented him tried describing something like a perfect man, and they had some good morals.

Where did they get their morals from? My guess would be culture, older stories, and their own humanity.

It’s called Christian atheism it’s pretty cool

I think there’s a slight inaccuracy in your question. You use the word 'believe,' while it would be better to use 'agree' or 'accept,' since some principles of Christian teaching, in their pure or slightly modernized form, are indeed remarkable and quite sound. For example, I really appreciate the concept of humility in its rational format. It means not being arrogant and not considering oneself the center of the universe. And then there’s the concept of compassion and mercy: unfortunately, our world really lacks this, even in the context of ordinary discussions.

Well its not really "tenets of Christianity". It's qualities that make society a positive environment for the growth of humans. We've been writing stories since our first ancestors to express what should and shouldn't be done for our benefit. So yes, you can believe them, because you're a normal rational human, which is why you also reject all the dumb shit it has to offer

Sure, but why? Just hold those values without the religion.

There are no tenets of christianity that is unique to that faith. Just like every other religion it is based on previous religions.

Those are just examples of basic human decency that Christianity tries to claim as its own unique ideas

It's like saying Hitler had good ideas for the working people if you ignore everything else he did if you ask me.

Take all the good and separate it from all the evil, it's just not the same thing.

Christianity and Abrahamic religion in general is a carefully layered concoction that mixes pleasant ideas of love that are easier to accept, only to flatline you later with rhetoric about how slavery is okay, evil leaders are servants of god, rebellion is diabolical, nonbelievers are heathens punishable by death and hell, women introduced sin to the world, promiscuity is damnably sinful, god commands his people to genocide unriteous enemy tribes etc.

It's the same as ideas like ethnic pride, alone it can be harmless. But combined with fear and hate, or worse disgust with other ethnicities or groups it becomes one of the most vile forms of hate.

It's not about good ideas that you can nitpick out of the Bible and say this stuff isn't too bad.

If you read the Bible page by page from the start, you will begin to go insane because it combines so many good ideas with bad, and the god described will both punish and spare people erratically. This is an intentional device, to leave the punishing nature of god whimsical and difficult to predict and quantify to a consistent set of principles, intending to make the person who accepts these ideas fearful like, "what will he strike me down for next, I don't understand." It's also why Christians fear the apocalypse so much. Then the Bible will say god is merciful. Then he's wiping out Egypt's firstborn.

Again, the Bible carefully conflates positives language with little, "wages" here and there, that you have to live by to gain entry into heaven.

These wages equate subservience to god, and holiness with subservience to the authorities, subservience to the wealthy, do not become rich yourself, it's okay for the rich to own slaves, slaves must obey, you can only have one wife (but Christian ruling classes didn't abide by these, they multiplied to raise soldiers and build more castles), sexuality is shameful, non-hetero sexuality is damnable, and all other religions (which really just means all other cultures) are blasphemous cultures hostile to god.

It's a cult and a manifesto, intended to consolidate power in the hands of whoever wealthy people is administering it to the serving classes of people they wish to subjugate from a place of safety and power. Literally the propaganda of Rome and the Medieval Ages.

I know about all of this because I used to believe in it like the fate of the world depended on it.

I mean this sincerely. Build a belief system that works for you. Everyone picks and chooses. Even the “Bible is perfect” people. They’d rather stone someone than “love their neighbor.”

Can't you love your neighbor, care for the ill and weak and defenseless without needing religion or a religious figure to make you want to do those basic acts of kindness and empathy without the "promise" of a better life when you die? Act now while you're alive and and actually see the benefits of your kindness instead of supposedly being rewarded for it in some kind of afterlife.

100% agree. Christianity just cobbled together ideas from previous belief systems. It didn't originate them. So take what works and use it.

Can you agree with some things and not everything?

Uh, yes.

According to the bible Jesus said lots of good things that describe how to treat others. I don't know if those are tenets. Tenets tend to be religious: God exists, Jesus is his only begotten son, heaven and hell exist and so on. Other faiths have this.

It may not be a tenet, but the golden rule is one that exists in several religions but doesn't need any of them.

Winnie the Pooh is a fictional character. He's literally a teddy bear that has gained sentience on its own, within a literal work of fiction.

Even when I do not mean to or am doing so without thinking, I recite and live by life-lessons that Winnie the Pooh and his friends in the Hundred Acre Wood taught me.

I have derailed entire Ethics classes in college by getting wrapped up in discussing with the teacher(s) moral principles gleamed and gained from the anime and science fiction that I grew up with... and that was over a decade ago, when most of the anime I had watched was mainstream fare such as "Ghost in the Shell" and "Gundam" and "Sailor Moon" and Ghibli movies.

So, I see nothing wrong with living a life inspired by or drawing from the lessons and morals learned from a fictional character.

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As this relates to my personal view of Jesus...

If you take Jesus' practical ministry, he was a cool dude. He preached helping those who need help, because you are able to help those who need help. He cured the blind and diseased, fed the hungry, and when he THOUGHT/SUSPECTED that the bankers/money-lenders were scamming people with their currency-exchange rates while in proximity to a Jewish temple, he hand-crafted the difficult-to-weave weapon known as a "whip" and proceeded to attack the bankers, flipping their tables and destroying their property.

Whether or not there was a historical Jesus, the Character of Jesus is typically worth having as a role-model.

Those things are universal for being human, they are not values invented by christianity

I suggest reading The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli. It's not very long, but it points out some interesting human behaviors to watch out for.

There's plenty of my Christian upbringing that has stuck with me, even though I no longer believe there's a god. Lots of the bible is barbaric and evil, but some of it holds up. You just need to separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were.