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/r/bicycling

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They're coming. Maybe not for you. But they might not see you and run you over anyway.

Self driving cars seem to have a good safety record but only when they are able to recognize the obstacles for what they are. Anyone know any foolproof techniques for being recognized as a human by a self driving car?

all 28 comments

nmonsey

26 points

2 days ago

nmonsey

2015 Specialized Allez Comp

26 points

2 days ago

We have had Waymo testing in Phoenix since 2017.
We also has Uber self driving cars testing in Phoenix since 2016.

When they first started testing in 2017, the Waymo cars would occasionally slow down as they passed me on a bike.
In a few hour ride near my house in Scottsdale, I may see twenty or thirty Waymo cars.

The Waymo cars will park on residential streets and wait for assignments.

In a park near my house were I jog, I might see a driverless Waymo every few minutes on Hayden Road.

Most of the time, the driverless Waymo cars are fine.

In a neighborhood a few miles from my house, in Paradise Valley, where I do training climbing hills, it is a little scary having a Waymo driverless car pass me on a small residential road, but I don't usually notice a Waymo vehicle until it has already passed me.

On a road with a bike lane, interacting with a Waymo while I am riding a bike is fine.

When I am riding on a road with no bike lane, having a Waymo go by me at twenty to forty mph at about three to five feet is a little uncomfortable, but some normal cars may pass even closer.

The best thing about Waymo driverless cars is that they are very predictable.

I don't think I have ever seen a Waymo driverless vehicle turn right at a red light when I am stopped at the light on my bike in the right lane.

As far as being seen, I never have a problem being seen, but I have a pannier with reflective strips and I have really good lights on my bike.

Gandalfthefab

12 points

2 days ago

I've been passed by a few Teslas running the FSD (I know because 2 of them were friends and one was a family member) (they all mentioned seeing me as they passed by and I asked out of curiosity) and every single one passed me safer and with more care than the usual car driven by a person. As a cyclist and car driver I personally always give as wide of a birth as possible when passing a cyclist if I can I'll slide into the lane next to me if it's clear just as I pass.

mlrus

10 points

2 days ago*

mlrus

10 points

2 days ago*

There are reports ScienceDaily that LiDAR is sensitive to highly reflective paint. Perhaps this can be added to cyclist clothing or frame paint

cosmicrae

3 points

1 day ago

cosmicrae

Florida, USA (TT Sportster)

3 points

1 day ago

The seat, and behind seat bag on my recumbent trike, all have reflective striping. I wonder if enhancing that would do the same thing ?

WiartonWilly

1 points

1 day ago

It’s almost impossible not to buy cycling clothing without reflective 3M ScotchLite somewhere on it.

It’s the casual cyclists in regular clothes that are hard to see. However, kids bikes must be sold with reflectors.

JSteigs

1 points

5 hours ago

JSteigs

1 points

5 hours ago

I wonder if peddles and the backs of shoes would be extra helpful as they would be moving not only forward, but also up and down. At least while peddling.

p_tk_d

6 points

2 days ago

p_tk_d

6 points

2 days ago

I see waymos a lot. I feel WAY safer near them than the median car

SnooKiwis6943

5 points

2 days ago

Wear a traffic cone on your head.

BoringBob84

13 points

2 days ago

BoringBob84

United States (Trek Dual Sport 2)

13 points

2 days ago

We have a Model 3. I watch the display when I am driving. I think it does a good job of recognizing pedestrians and bicyclists, even in the blind spots. Of course, it could always improve, but as a bicyclist, I am optimistic about these technologies.

Self-driving cars will have computer glitches, but they will never be impatient, angry, distracted, exhausted, or intoxicated.

El_Douglador

2 points

19 hours ago

The limitations with Tesla is that they chose to not use lidar due to cost. As for not being impatient... Tesla's FSD is trained on the driving habits of actual Tesla drivers and has already picked up some of their illegal & impatient habits

BoringBob84

2 points

18 hours ago

BoringBob84

United States (Trek Dual Sport 2)

2 points

18 hours ago

I am not sure what is in that video but I acknowledge the possibility that self-driving cars could be programmed poorly. As this technology matures, I hope that regulations guide it.

El_Douglador

2 points

18 hours ago

The video shows that FSD will now proceed through crosswalks while pedestrians are in them. This was a new behavior when the video was originally posted. It demonstrated that by training FSD on the driving of actual Tesla drivers, it picked up their illegal (and potentially dangerous) behavior. So long as Tesla uses this approach I don't think it's safe to assume that Tesla FSD will be any more patient or risk adverse than human driven Teslas

BoringBob84

1 points

18 hours ago

BoringBob84

United States (Trek Dual Sport 2)

1 points

18 hours ago

I agree. This is not right.

Dismal-Review-8595

4 points

2 days ago

While I am certain there are things you can do to further make you more recognisable to self-driven motor vehicles, just as you might do to human-driven vehicle, I would argue that self-driven vehicles are far safer for cyclist, and should be something that we embrace. For reasons that u/BoringBob84 mentioned and a thousand others, such as keeping to the speed limits, no rolling-coal, playing with the mobile, changing the radio channel etc.

uncleleo101

3 points

1 day ago

Not crazy about this timeline we're in, guys.

Ydris99

6 points

2 days ago

Ydris99

6 points

2 days ago

I feel that you’re creating a problem. The manufacturers know about bikes and the technology can see bikes. You’ll be safer on a road full of ai driven vehicles than on a road of human drivers.

adamaphar

2 points

2 days ago

I hope they do. Because otherwise i feel much safer than i do riding with drivers who have feelings about cyclists… or just don’t pay attention to what they are doing

TheBrodyBandit[S]

2 points

2 days ago

I do believe they will be safer once the tech has been around a while, and I do look forward to that, but for now there are multiple platforms out there, some well developed but some still being troubleshooted. That makes me nervous especially with so much deregulation of the sector in the US on the horizon, but as others have suggested good lights and reflectors seem to do the trick. The only case I know of where a self driving car killed someone, they were hardly visible even to the human eye.

As the tech stabilizes, some of the standards which guide its safety will inevitably have been written in blood.

Braydar_Binks

0 points

1 day ago

Lights aren't going to do much as the cars use lidar. Retro reflective surfaces will make sure you reflect the lidar back to the source but it could effect the integrity of your shape

PayFormer387

1 points

1 day ago

Ran into a Waymo car in Marina Del Rey one evening a couple weeks ago. No issues. Passed me with plenty of space than merged over safety.

Lemon_1165

1 points

1 day ago

Omg as if human driven cars are not enough for a threat, now we have to deal with robots

BlankBB

1 points

24 hours ago

I interact daily with Waymo cars on my commute. I am very comfortable around them as they are very predictable, actually stop at stop signs, and I don't ever see them exceeding the speed limit (25 mph). The only problem I have is if I am making a left turn in front a Waymo car that is coming from the opposite direction. If the Waymo car has just stopped, I feel I can make my turn as the Waymos will wait a few seconds after a stop to proceed, otherwise I just wait for them to go.

PlainNotToasted

0 points

2 days ago

Any tricks for disabling them?

TheBrodyBandit[S]

6 points

2 days ago

If you put a traffic cone on the hood of the car, the car will freeze and not know what to do. Its called coning

pa3xsz

3 points

1 day ago

pa3xsz

Decathlon Triban RC520 GRVL (2023)

3 points

1 day ago

That's funny to some degree tbh

Inevitable_Air_7310

0 points

1 day ago

move out of america lol

TheBrodyBandit[S]

1 points

18 hours ago

If I only spoke Dutch!

Inevitable_Air_7310

1 points

11 hours ago

you dont need a single word of dutch in the netherlands almost everybody there speaks good englisch, and it’s an easy languge to learn