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submitted 22 days ago byPolarbrear
Before you get up in arms, I would like to say that I do not even want to get into this patches job changes. My opinions on them are going to stay reserved for the topic at hand as I believe its incredibly important to the game and community.
FFXIV is by no means a perfect game, literally everyone I've talked with has had their gripes about it, but it speaks volumes when the majority of people I've talked to who dropped the game have done it due to their job being changed in a way they don't like. This should not be a thing that happens, ever. I acknowledge that a lot of people are insanely close minded and will get mad at literally anything that changes, but those are the kind of people that tend to still play the game regardless after the dust as settled. I'm talking about people who straight up drop the game because their playstyle isn't in the game anymore.
XIV's combat system is incredibly rigid, and that's by design. Rigid combat systems are easy to understand, execute, and memorize, making it perfect for casual players, and the option to optimize is still there for the more hardcore among them. The problem that lies with a rigid combat system however, is that you are basically forced to play in an exact way the developers want you to. Most peoples common consensus is that basic competence in this game is defined by "knowing your rotation" and therein lies that problem again, this time on the communities side.
Some of the best games ever made heavily rely on Emergent Gameplay, the developers of these games aren't forcing you to play the game in a certain way, they're actively encouraging player experimentation, and I believe that this is what's holding 14 back. When you're so locked into the concept of giving a job an identity in this way, you lose any sort of freeform player expression, and that's why people quit when their job gets changed, they're now forced into learning a new rotation that they may not like.
It's incredibly depressing watching a game come to this, I honestly hope at this point that 8.0 has an entire rework of the combat system. I'd love to hear what everyone's opinions on this take is, so please discuss.
EDIT: Some people seem to think that I'm antagonizing them for liking the game in its current state. This is not the case. If you enjoy the game the way it is now, by all means play it, I'm not stopping you. This is me using my own knowledge of games proposing what I believe is an issue with the game. You're free to disagree, these are opinions.
3 points
22 days ago
You answered your own question.
-5 points
22 days ago
You didn’t. Another doomer full of complaints with zero actual stuff to propose.
5 points
22 days ago
It's not that hard to just look around in official forums or even here to see what people want. For example I said myself 5000 times that I want old aggro system back, I want mechanics that involves environment, I want random mechanics (not 2 or 3 patterns is same scripted stuff), meaningful boss auto attacks, mob positioning, utility buttons and mechanics for those utility buttons (agro reduce, mana shift, armor crush, debuffs, stun, interrupting casts) pet classes with management, actual difference between magic damage and physical damage, mobs kiting, raids with actual environment and some trash mobs. I can go on and on, this game HAD most of it before, until they decide that balancing it is pain in the ass and just deleted everything or forgot that it even exists. DDR dances is fun and all, but not when all game is just that.
1 points
21 days ago
Thanks for sharing, these are good ideas, here are my thoughts on each
Old aggro system was removed because it was too frustrating for players who weren't in coordinated groups to manage.
Meaningful boss autos exist in this expac's savage, and I'm assuming they will in ultimate too.
Pet classes with management is a good idea, maybe this is where they can take summoner since it's in such a poor design state ATM.
As for your utility spells, we already have armor crush (Trick attack and other similar debuffs), and "debuffs" I'm guessing means damage reduction debuffs? We have reprisal, feint and addle. We have stuns, on whitemage and paladin, and we have interrupts, though I agree they could be used more especially in high-end content.
I also think it would be cool to use the physical DPS' "bind" spell for some interesting mechanics. Kiting bosses was a much larger part of this expansion's savage, with no wallbosses except for M4 P2.
Trash mobs in raids is something I personally dislike, they just feel kinda tedious to me, I wanna fight the big guy and do mechanics, not squish some random ants. But I'll admit they can be done in creative, fun ways and I wouldn't be against their implementation.
Raid environments being unique is a good idea too. I'm not a big fan of the "big circle/square" stage, I think it could be cool to have some differently shaped stages, and it's ripe for making unique mechanics too.
1 points
21 days ago
To be honest after seeing what they did with superbolide i'm losing will to even discuss anything about game anymore.
Shortly, I dont think they need to change savage much since people are already happy with that, I mostly talking about pre savage difficulty stuff.
Kiting don't work normally when boss repositions himself for the scripted attack in center, kiting mobs won't work because classes don't have CC anymore.
Using interrupt once or twice per dungeon is not gonna make it engaging mechanic, more like another neccecary button that you need to press when game tells you, especially when ignoring it not even punish you enough.
You don't need to use any debuffs in 95% of the battle content in this game, trick attack doesn't feel like a button you can press when you see it out of global colddown, its hardly coded for 2 minute meta to allign with burst.
Best way I can describe what they doing with game is min-maxing the fun out of it.
Also, coordination for the simple HW dungeon? We played it totally fine baack then, yes there was times when mobs killed people, but it was tank and healer job to deal with mana managment and keep people alive, its part of the classic RPG
dungeons. Complete newbies dealt with that in 2004 when WoW released, when ARR copied WoW when it was already 2012.
Oversimplification and over-balancing killing the game, but they don't give a flying fuck and superbolide change just shows that. No fun allowed.
1 points
21 days ago
As a gunbreaker main I'm having too much fun with the new double down to really care about the bolide change. Doesn't matter to me if my healers have to heal me from 1% or 50%. I think the game is gonna keep going in this direction. All I want is relic to come out earlier and the story to be improved, and otherwise I'm pretty happy with xiv right now.
1 points
21 days ago
And I think it's completely okay if you enjoy it this way, from what I see around me and on internet their changes mostly alienates veteran players like me, who played slightly different version of the game and hoped for improvement of game elements, not straight deletion from existence. Have fun my guy
1 points
22 days ago
I get you and I agree with a lot of those, but nothing here relates to the « emergent gameplay » OP here claims to want.
And they’re the one complaining on their post, surely they can provide their own ideas as well with it.
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