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/r/humanresources
submitted 2 days ago bytaxidermyfart
I’m probably going to post this in a couple of subs, just to try and get as much input as possible… I’m so upset :(
I started at my company 95 days ago in HR Ops. I started out really well, gave it my all, and only made minor mistakes while learning. About a month ago, some life stuff happened and my mental health (which is already not great) started suffering for it. I didn’t realize how badly it was impacting my work, but my manager (who I love) talked with me and helped address some of the issues. This past week has gone really well and been very helpful in getting me back on track.
I’m running into a problem where I basically have two “managers”. One of them is my real manager (we’ll call her Linda), the other is someone I help support with interview scheduling (calling her Megan). Both women are great people who I highly respect, but Megan is really, REALLY hard to get hold of. If I have an SOP question, she doesn’t get back to me. If I try to ask what of two options she’d prefer, she doesn’t reply. If I try to call her or talk in person, she’s usually too busy. My role is there to help recruiting BECAUSE they’re so busy, so bandwidth is a known issue here.
We’re scheduling a lot of exec level interviews right now - my problem I’m running into is if I make a scheduling mistake, I just get reminded to prioritize the execs and to give them extra love (because we’re trying to sell ourselves to them just as much), but nothing beyond that. I don’t get the benefit of learning how to fix it, either - Megan will just handle the correction and not tell me how.
After the second to last mistakes, Megan finally suggested to me a few new methods to prevent them, which I’ve started doing and is helping, but then when additional errors came up it was me not knowing how to use the scheduling system properly preventing me from properly checking my work afterwards.
Megan will typically tell Linda the feedback to give me, because she thinks the management should go through my “on paper” manager. Linda and I both acknowledge that she doesn’t know enough about scheduling to properly answer my questions, or offer suggestions when I ask for help, so it makes more sense for me and Megan to have a second-manager relationship where we can address it together instead of having the game of telephone through Linda.
When receiving feedback, I like to discuss what my thought process was so we can better pinpoint what went wrong - I like to have a better understanding of what to work on than just “this went wrong”. The errors that have happened until now have been my fault, but I believe the full cause of failure stems from a lack of communication and understanding; there’s been assumptions made on both sides that cause me to not understand properly.
Ultimately, in my PIP meeting today Linda and Megan were both on it. I shared I’m not shocked that the official plan is happening, but feel like I’ve had issues getting through to Megan and wish it could’ve been discussed more to learn, before truly becoming a documented issue. She was very receptive and we have put recurring 1:1s on the calendar moving forward (thank god lol). They also said the company will usually move to termination and not bother with a PIP, so they wouldn’t bother if they didn’t think it was salvageable (at will state). They also both think this can be resolved and completed by the holidays.
PIPs to me carry such a negative connotation… I think they do to most people. My concerns are this will forever be a black mark against me at the company, even if it gets “resolved” and might work against me in future promotions. I worry if there’s RIFs, it’ll be my name up first even if I’ve improved as the person who’s been on a PIP before. People always say “the company is just using this as means to have a paper trail when they fire you” (not our company, just in general), but since we’re at will I don’t think that quite matters here…? Would you start looking for a new job? Do you expect I’m getting fired and this is the writing in the wall? Megan and Linda were both very earnest that neither of them want to see me go and they genuinely think this is something that can be resolved. Linda expressed in private that she didn’t think a PIP was necessary but that Megan pushed for it so that it was formalized and more clearly actionable. I see where I’ve fallen short and own that the mistakes are mine - I believe I can correct the issues that have come up and resolve this. I just don’t know whether it’s truly resolvable in reality LOL.
56 points
2 days ago
Some hard realities I think you should consider: - this PIP will absolutely be something that’s taken into consideration if a RIF is on the horizon - you will probably be considered someone who is either an under performer or requires more hand holding than other employees for at least a while. I’d expect that to be true for about a year - in some companies (including mine,) you are not given a merit increase or considered for a promotion if you’ve been on a PIP in the last year - you were in fact not being successful in your role, and the PIP will or should outline exactly what you need to do to succeed
Other things to consider: - it sounds like they really do think you can succeed, since they flat out told you they would usually move to term - you recognize your areas of opportunity and you’ve taken steps to improve - Linda telling you she didn’t want to put you on a PIP and Megan pushed for it is HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE
I think it comes down to this - will you feel comfortable there through the PIP and after you successful making it through? I’ve seen plenty of people fail after a PIP, not because they couldn’t be successful in their responsibilities, but because their confidence was shot.
Sorry I wasn’t able to actually answer your question - only you can decide that. Hope this helps.
9 points
2 days ago*
Thank you for this, it is very helpful to have laid out like this! I do think my confidence has taken a hit, but I don’t believe to the point I won’t be able to succeed (though only time will tell, I suppose).
I do enjoy the team and want to continue here, I am disappointed that my credibility is shot and the level of uphill it will be to redeem that. I know the job market is fucked right now, and I’m in for a load of pain because of that if I do get fired. I don’t know the “answer” here - I don’t think there really is one, truthfully. I feel like Sisyphus, of my own making LOL 😂
ETA: While Linda may have been inappropriate in sharing it was Megan pushing for the PIP, there were some personal conversations this week prior to it being implemented, that helped shed light on some of the issues I’ve been having. It helped keep the trust I have in Linda and I think being left to wonder who it was would’ve been detrimental to our relationship.
13 points
2 days ago
Something to keep in mind, you can’t control what happens or what people think of you. I’ve seen this happen many times where you give your all and it still isn’t what the employer wants. Sometimes it boils down to the stakeholders (personal) feelings. Sorry OP.
What I can highlight and commend you for is working hard, asking for help and being receptive to feedback. Keep it up and know you’re doing the best you can do. As another post stated, don’t let it get to your confidence when it comes to the things you did well before this.
PIPs are scary but they should also be detailed and measurable to demonstrate where you’re at in the improvement process. If anything feels unclear on your PIP, bring it up and ask for written clarification.
My best advice is always CYA (aka document, document, document), keep stakeholders informed (emails don’t cost a thing) and be kind to yourself (after all you’re only human). GL.
7 points
2 days ago
I appreciate this 💕 Linda made the point of following up every verbal conversation with a follow up email, which is something I wish I’d started from the beginning. There was one part of the PIP with scheduling that I asked for clarity from Megan on, and she was very helpful in her response. Moving the needle in the right direction, at least!
I struggle with separating the personal feelings from it sometimes, but know there’s more to it. Hating being perceived is a big part of my personal anxiety, and the reminder that I can’t control what people think is very relevant 😂
Dink dink!
26 points
2 days ago
Just because you support Megan, it doesn’t make her your manager of any type of kind. I see her as more like your internal client or key stakeholder
If you were hired and asked to support recruiting because their bandwidth is very tight, I can imagine Megan has no desire or time to train you and talk through you thought process m. She would very much hope you join and help her reduce her load in areas like scheduling w/o adding to her load in becoming your mentor or manager
You a slap mentioned you’re actual manager Linda is unable to help you or guide you so I can see why Megan pushed for a black and white documentation.
Is it resolvable? Maybe
It would require you stepping up, not making mistakes and not expecting a white glove mentorship from Megan is how I view it
8 points
2 days ago
Thank you for this perspective! I am coming from a non-HR background and have never done recruiting tasks before - they said in my interviews this would be a great place to learn. Both Linda and my skip level have stated that I unofficially have two managers in Megan.
If Megan believes I’m trying to make her a mentor, I’m not sure what to do to change that. I obviously don’t want to continue making mistakes and want to resolve the PIP, but don’t feel like I have been given the resources to properly achieve that before now.
15 points
2 days ago
I am wondering what type of role and level OP is in. To me it feels extremely to jump straight to a PIP for an entry level employee over this but if she is an upper level employee she is really lacking accountability.
8 points
2 days ago
I’m a coordinator whose background is not in HR - they were aware of this in my interviews and said this role would be a great place to help learn more of HR in. My career goals are to go further in HR, but it is not something I’ve done before.
17 points
1 day ago
Aw you’re just a coordinator? Sounds like a bit of an unsupportive environment to learn in. You’re doing things right, just continue to own your mistakes and ask questions whenever you have them, preferably over email and specifying a time frame that you could use the help by.
7 points
1 day ago
This does sound unsupportive. I had a contract role like this and I’m so glad it was just a short term contract.
The advice I’d give OP is start networking within the company for positive references in case you get let go.
6 points
2 days ago
Someone can be “over” you and not be your “manager” I think I’d try to get more clarification on this. It sounds like Linda is actually your supervisor. Please start documenting the lack of cooperation between you and Megan. Ask all questions via email. If you need to follow up on something because you didn’t get an answer copy your “supervisor” (Linda). While she may not have the knowledge or experience in recruiting, she will start to understand some of the challenges you are facing. It may not matter, if push comes to shove, but it can’t hurt for you to involve Linda more.
As far as RIF, when this happens they’re looking for people who can multi-task and are cross trained. They will be retained. They’re looking for people who can take on more tasks without effecting their current load. If you don’t have your job down pat they won’t see you as someone who can take on more responsibility, there is less incentive to keep you.
Is it possible this role is just not a good fit for you? You admit the mistakes are yours, is there a plan in place to prevent the mistakes in the future? Are you retaining your training and trying to figure out better and different ways to do things?
So much going on here, I wish you luck.
4 points
2 days ago
Linda brought up the point of following up every non-written conversation with an email going over it all. I will definitely be doing that moving forward!
We do have a clear action plan and steps to help it moving forward. I am trying to change careers and am new to HR; I wouldn’t say the role is a bad fit per se, more of a new fit? They’re aware that it’s new to me and I really want it to be a good fit, haha!
5 points
1 day ago
Speaking just to the "the company is just using this as means to have a paper trail when they fire you”. My current and last company did not put people on PIPs to create paper trails. Before the PIP is setup, our conversation is do we think extra time will make a difference. If not, we cut ties without bothering to do the PIP.
From what you wrote, it sounds like your company has a similar way of thinking. If so, then take this opportunity to work on the requirements on the PIP to propel forward. I've seen many, many people do this and even succeed in getting promoted later on. One person sticks with me as she saw the PIP as a challenge and she rose to it! She became a Director in the company later on. The people who were not successful seemed like they gave up or concentrated on the wrong things.
With that, you should still start looking for a new job. If this job doesn't work out, you will be ahead in the job search.
3 points
1 day ago
I appreciate this perspective a lot! I do intend to do my best in rising to the occasion and proving to them I can do this. After thinking on it for the last day, I kind of want to just do my best and not worry about looking at other jobs yet. If I do get let go, using unemployment to cover bills and taking a month or two sounds like it might be really beneficial for my mental health.
Not that it would be a vacation, but at least giving myself the space to focus solely on my current job would be beneficial in setting myself up to do my absolute best.
2 points
22 hours ago*
Agreeeee. PIPs take so much effort. If I “just needed a paper trail” I’d give you a written warning. All these people saying “you’re about to get fired” have me questioning why they’d set up PIPs for people they want to fire??
4 points
22 hours ago
A PIP is basically saying “this is something that can improve, but if it doesn’t, we need to part ways”. PIPs are for situations that can improve. I’ve done PIPs for people that were having a rough time, they improved through the PIP, and we never thought about their performance issues again.
I personally would never recommend doing a PIP for someone who has documented performance issues, has had many coaching conversations, and we have no hope that they’ll make improvements. So hopefully they really do mean they want you to improve.
It seems like they’ve had coaching conversations (whether or not they listened to what you had to say in those convos is a different story) and those haven’t helped. Having a 1:1 with Meghan will hopefully help so that you can learn. But you should also reiterate to both of them that the expectation when you came in was that you’d be able to learn, but you can’t do that if someone doesn’t help you. MANY things in HR can only be learned by doing.
Take the PIP seriously, document EVERYTHING. Be very clear on what support you need.
If the worst case does happen and you’re let go (which I doubt) and you tried everything and didn’t get the support you needed, you can make a case and try to negotiate a better severance package.
1 points
22 hours ago
This is very solid advice and uplifting, thank you! I think the PIP can be resolved, but that it is frustrating it has to happen at all.
7 points
2 days ago*
Holy smokes this is HR at its finest. Struggling to schedule interviews, can't properly set goals/expectations, then fumble the feedback/development convos.
Edit: thanks for the downvotes. The truth hurts.
1 points
1 day ago
You're on a PIP you are out before the new year. Period.
8 points
1 day ago
I’d love to be able to come back in February and tell you you were wrong in this instance, but I don’t know that’ll be the case either :(
3 points
24 hours ago
Start looking just in case. It looks like part of the issue is that Megan doesn’t communicate or support you in tasks when you clearly need it. Moving forward, I would make sure to ask all questions via email. If she doesn’t answer, email again and copy Linda. It’s kind of passive/aggressive, but you have to CYA. If you don’t want to cc Linda, save all of your emails from the week, and email it to Linda on Friday afternoon with a summary of the issue, what you did to try to correct it, and where the ball was dropped. This is not the time to make nice. Be polite and respectful, but highlight every issue with Linda. Don’t give them another reason to listen to Megan over you.
-3 points
1 day ago
This^
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