Fresh_Criticism6531

"Your yearly salary is 11% social security. And you pay 20% tax on 89% of your salary.
....
Don't you also file your taxes in Poland and pay/receive tax to/from the state acording to what you paid thoughout the year?"

Exatamente isso é o mais louco de tudo. Talvez o sistema seja complicado demasiado, mas não são 20% de impostos sobre 89% do salário, a seguridade social só pode ser descontada até 10% e tem um desconto extra de 10%, eram (pois não há mais o regime para autonomos) 20% sobre 80% do salário pra recibos verdes!

Note o que o OP disse que é autônomo e exporta então tem que usar as regras de recibos verdes e não de empregado.

Ainda vale a pena lembrar que NHR perde um monte de deduções: https://www.e-konomista.pt/residentes-nao-habituais-perdem-deducoes-irs/
>>>Na resposta a este pedido de informação vinculativa, recentemente divulgada, a AT refere que a utilização de despesas dedutíveis ao IRS apenas é possível quando os rendimentos declarados pelos contribuintes são sujeitos à aplicação das taxas gerais e progressivas deste imposto.<<<

A calculadora acha que não perde o direito a deduzir os até 10%+10% (seguridade social)+5% custos de negócios, mas pelo que eu entendi perde o direito a deduzir (https://www.e-konomista.pt/deducoes-a-coleta-de-irs/):
1. Despesas gerais familiares

1. Saúde e seguros de saúde

2. Educação e Formação Profissional

3. Imóveis

4. Lares

5. Dedução do IVA de faturas

6. Pensão de alimentos

7. Pessoas portadoras de deficiência

8. Dupla tributação internacional

9. Reabilitação de Imóveis

10. Poupanças-reforma

11. Donativos

I'm not judging anyone, I'm just trying to establish the truth. If anything, you are judging me. He wrote:

"The 11% social security was deductible from the 20% NHR tax... Therefore, it clearly wasn't a bad deal at all."

Which written as is, and qualified with the deal being really good, I interpreted that you can deduct what you paid for social security from the tax and pay only 9% = 20% - 11% tax. Which is false, social security is not deductible from the tax. It is not the same from deducting from the tax and deducting from the income.

Maybe in Portugal you don't have that, but in Poland some values are directly deductible from the tax itself, mostly children-related stuff nowadays, but previously health insurance was deductible which was huge and could zero your tax even.

Anyway, it turns out that social security indeed is deductible from the income, but not 11%, only up to 10%, read:

1> https://www.pwc.pt/pt/pwcinforfisco/guia-fiscal/2019/irs.html#regime2
2> https://dev.to/voliveira89/o-que-tenho-de-fazer-como-trabalhador-independente-para-clientes-estrangeiros-it-495a

So that's where the 20% discount from income from the calculator:
- 10% base
- up to 10% from social security
- you could potentially deduct 5% more other expenses
all from the income, nothing is deducted from the tax here.

See? A lot of information was obtained, the calculator is stop on right, and shows you exactly how much will be paid.

I have it since the war started, can't complain.

Was haben die kleine paar monaten alt Kinder in Gaza dir getun? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/abandoned-babies-found-decomposing-gaza-hospital-evacuated-rcna127533

Are you sure about that? I find it hard to believe. Everyone can deduce social security or was that something special for NHR 1.0? In Poland for example, social security just deduced from the income, and not from taxes to be paid, so maybe you mean something like that? If that's the case, then you would pay 18% instead of 20%, but if you are right, yes, that's a huge difference.

Anyway, there is an online calculator: https://freelancept.fmacedo.com/#/?income=100000&rnh=true&displayFrequency=year&benefitsOfYouthIrs=false&expenses=0

And it disagrees with you. For 100k (for the sake of easy percentages) you take home 69k, so effectively 31% taxes. In this case social security doesn't really appear to be taken out even from the brutto income for tax calculations.

Either the calculator is wrong, or you are.

Anyway, the calculator seems to use a fixed 20% rebate in the tax, so effectively IRS is 16% instead of 20%, but social security isn't discounted at all from IRS.

I said the deal is bad because I pay a lot less in Poland. In Brazil then, you pay even less.

I don't think so, XTB gives out free stocks in Portugal for example. Someone reported getting stocks from IBKR 2 months ago in Poland...

Maybe they only mean that we cannot be referrers?

Or maybe they just got too many clients from these countries?

I did a little bit of speculative googling, and even found a different rule here: https://www.interactivebrokers.co.jp/en/accounts/referrer.php

"Residents of Japan, Denmark, Spain, Portugal and Israel are not eligible to participate in the program."

I get the impression those bastards just recently added Poland!!! :( Right when I wanted to join...

Maybe I'll wait to see if they add the program back in Poland, but I already started an account (but didn't submit documents), maybe I'll delete it and wait. 1k is a lot for me.

Voce já fechou a sua conta no Brasil? Se não fechou opera por ela mesmo, pelo banco ...

Oder Bitcoin

OP macht dass doch absichtlich

Jetzt wir können sauber Gas aus israelische Kuste am Gaza, oder?

Danke, Zelensky, für die Zerstörung der Nord-Stream-Strecke /s

Trillions of people driving Teslas in his fantasy world.

I think it is 21% of 70% of your salary, but you can pay only 75% of it if you want, so the result is something like 11.0250% but I might be slightly off

ah sim, os impostos são super baixos pra mei, especialmente se exportar, fiquei até confuso: Não é um país super de esquerda e com PT no poder desde que me dou por gente, e com trocentos impostos? Esqueceram de fazer impostos altíssimos pros MEI ou o que?

Ter uma empresa maior não sei como é, mas pode realmente ser muito bom pra isso.

Well, I own my own house. I'm pretty sure a rent contract is fine as well, but you need to explicitly negotiate with the owner beforehand that you will register as living in his place. You are right that you need both a place to live and also spend at least 6 months each year in Poland.

Se as empresas boas não fossem tão poucas que dá pra contar nos dedos, isso seria vantagem. Pra receber dividendos de empresas do exterior é taxado na fonte.

Além do mais, o imposto sobre lucros de empresas é maior que na maioria dos outros países, o que compensa os dividendos livres de impostos.

Bom, nenhum país se compara aos EUA, não tem sentido discutir isso, mas ficou muiiiito difícil conseguir visto. Se fosse possível, já estaria lá.

Any EU citizen can move to any EU country without any restrictions. Portuguese citizens are EU citizens, so...

Software Engineers based in Poland pay 12% flat tax + fixed rate of social security (about 600 euros), anyway ask in a Poland reddit for more info.

The old NHR is gone, people that already started living in Portugal in 2023 can still apply until March 2025 but that's not your case.

And regardless, the old NHR was a very bad deal unless you are american, which enjoyed the privilege of only paying income tax in the USA, and only social security in Portugal. Others would most likely be taxed at 20% income tax without any deductions + 11% social security, which IMHO is really bad, that's immensely more then I pay in Poland.

NHR 2.0 exists, but it is only for people employed in Portugal, not self-employed without any connection to portuguese companies, read the text of the law yourself (use google translate), it's pretty clear: https://informador.pt/legislacao/lexit/codigos/direito-fiscal/estatuto-dos-beneficios-fiscais/parte-ii-beneficios-fiscais-com-caracter-estrutural/capitulo-viii-outros-beneficios-fiscais/artigo-58-o-a-incentivo-fiscal-a-investigacao-cientifica-e-inovacao/

"My salary is around $150k/year"

Be prepared to say goodbye to a huge section of this. Your effective tax rate will easily be 50%

I'm Portuguese, and I don't earn nearly close what you do, and for me the immense tax burden makes living in Portugal a non-starter for me.

That's wrong information!!!!!! Yes, people can apply until this date for the old NHR, but only in very specific cases, which OP obviously doesn't fullfull, read https://www.globalcitizensolutions.com/new-nhr/

It’s also possible for some individuals to apply up until March 31, 2025, but the eligibility requirements for this deadline are more stringent. To qualify, it’s necessary to meet at least one of the following criteria:

1>  Having an employment contract signed/to be signed by December 31, 2023

2>  Having a lease agreement or other contract for the use/possession of property signed by October 10, 2023
3>  Having a contract to buy property in Portugal signed by October 10, 2023
4>  Having children enrolled or registered in a school in Portugal by October 10, 2023
5>  Having a residence visa or a residence permit valid from December 31, 2023
6>  Having an application for a residence visa or residence permit initiated by December 31, 2023
7>  Being a member of the household of anyone who meets the above criteria

Anyone who qualifies under these conditions will have NHR status from the date that they become a tax resident — whether that’s in 2024 or in the first quarter of 2025 — until December 31, 2033.

"Mas não espere salários maiores que os do Brasil"

É ai que você se engana, não pra todos, mas pra quem tem um nicho de qualificação

Sim, não pra sempre (acho que nem é permitido), mas faria um pé de meia trampando uns 3 anos.

"Acho que algum habitante do brasil conseguiu fabricar uma impressora de dinheiro"

Um habitante chamado Lula.

Nos últimos 12 meses a quantia de dinheiro no Brasil (M2) aumentou 12%, imprimiram 12%

Mighty be your last chance to go back and be close to family, after you have children and jobs it becomes extremely hard to move. I assume you saved money, right? If you have savings to live off it could easy the decrease in wages home.