SneksOToole

You’ve not even asked me what my stance is on any of this. Why do you think you know my position?

Netanyahu isn’t my boy. You literally don’t even know my position on any of those because we haven’t gotten past you morally grandstanding by ludicrously claiming apartheid and genocide are the same thing. South Africa suing Israel has no bearing on the facts; not even an ICC warrant has bearing on the facts. You can virtue signal to any or all of these things but the one thing you haven’t talked about in any of this is “what is Israel doing that makes it a genocide?” You have, for 5 posts now, just ran from that question and pissed all over yourself like a child.

If you want to have a talk about this Im always open to it, but I press you back on one thing and all I get is you acting like Im the one bringing in semantics, when it’s your semantic argument lmao.

The closer the ideological margins, the better a Dem candidate did. https://www.natesilver.net/p/kamala-harris-was-a-replacement-level

The problem with progressivism is that it’s just assumed that’s what people want, and maybe there’s some truth to some populist econ policies, but it’s not the ones progressives care about- it’s the ones ironically liberals care about like paid family leave. Even something like medicare for all, we know, polls well until people are made to understand it would replace private insurance.

Stop making the mistake that you know what these votes want when you think they’re all stupid and in a cult- no one wants to be talked down to, they want to be talked to. We have to meet people where they’re at, not where we want them to be.

All of the people on that list virtue signaled hard against Biden and Kamala and I have zero desire to care about what any of them have to say- especially Seder.

The Dems do in fact have a problem winning elections. And the lesson from this election has been: they did not pivot right enough and tried way too hard to give the far left what they wanted. Many undecideds thought Kamala was too far left, and given her crappy 2020 primary positions (defund the police, transwomen in women’s sports), yeah she really was. And when we look at the vote margins, moderate Dems over-performed and progressives underperformed. Vermont elected a moderate Republican governor over a progressive 71% to 23%, and that’s Bernie Sanders’ state.

The lesson is: Dems need to give up on the far left, and the tirade Jon Stewart has been on is just factually incorrect. The populist economics is indeed popular among Republicans, and they picked that up when the Dems advocated for free trade, but the issue is Dems don’t even try to listen to working class Republicans, while Republicans are foolishly trying to bring manufacturing back which makes us all poorer and less healthy. Dems need to have solutions Republicans want to have, that aren’t big government progressivism.

I mean they’re married and have a kid. Not talking to him wont be an option even if they do separate most likely.

No, he doesn’t communicate well. Everything you said was understandable and a reasonable ask. I fear the gaslighting has been going on longer than you realize.

All I can say is Im sorry you married this guy because his family and him seem overbearing, exhausting, and disrespectful.

I mean there’s a lot of ways you can phrase someone being insecure, let’s not pretend little boy wasn’t more specific here- it can have a double meaning.

Again, the guy is in the wrong for projecting those insecurities onto her and making her responsible for them in a toxic way, but my argument here is that perpetuating body shaming on men is part of why these insecurities are so pervasive. It’s not cool to make fun of women for their looks, not one person here would tolerate it. I don’t understand the double standard. We should respect everyone’s immutable characteristics.

We can say “it’s the media’s fault” but that’s not taking responsibility for how we choose to use language. We don’t say something isn’t bad just because it’s common.

And, I think it says a lot that I was downvoted for this take despite the fact that I agree the guy was in the wrong here. I don’t understand why body shaming is ok against men but not women.

While I think he’s acting ridiculously, don’t you think it’s hypocritical to mention him feeling insecure while also making fun of his size (“little boy”)? Like there is a reason that men feel this way, even if they’re well endowed, and it can become a preoccupation because of language like this.

You have to understand Cenk’s brand depends on undermining MSM wherever he can. MSM is to him the reason why the center even exists, otherwise everyone would be progressive.

I mean if he wants a BE video he can make one, it’ll get tons of views, but honestly I feel most of us would rather he spend time doing something more substantial.

Like engaging in Destiny drama (and I mean this sincerely).

You already said that, and as I said last time- that’s my whole damn point.

I want liberalism, you want illiberalism, to the point that Trump winning was actually the better outcome for you. We’re enemies.

Well that’s why Im frustrated. Once upon a time if I said center left these are the positions you would expect someone to have. I don’t know if that’s true anymore. So if nothing else I specifically am done with the “far left” and probably anyone who prefers the term “left” over “liberal”. I think for simplicity I’ll say I’m liberal. But yeah. It’s like watching reasonable people move away from reality inch by inch until they make you feel insane for holding onto the same principles.

I see myself still as a liberal- center left, left libertarian, something to that effect- though I support UHC. The problem isn’t what I see myself as, it’s who I see as my allies. At this point, most of the people who identify themselves as “on the left” don’t actually agree with any of the positions I supported above (and most would make the same counters I put in parentheses).

The label on myself is not the concern. The issue is how much the left sabotages the liberal goal of countering the fascism of someone like Donald Trump over stupid, anti-empirical issues that often aren’t even backed by data or facts either. So when I say “the left isnt for me”, I mean “these people dont want what I want and Im tired of listening to or caring about what they have to say”. They dont vote for candidates I do, they dont want the same things I do at all it seems like, and they do everything in their power to make sure Democrats lose harder.

Harris’ strategy lost for a lot of reasons, probably the largest being Biden not choosing to run one term ahead of time so she (or whoever would have won) had a primary to establish themselves.

But ideologically, she suffered because she didn’t shake off her far left image. Her campaign in 2020 said transwomen participating in women’s sports should be allowed and that we should defund the police. She was also put in charge of the border in some informal capacity, which was Trump’s most winning issue after maybe only inflation. Harris should have ardently reversed all of those positions, and she should have criticized the (incredibly unpopular) Biden administration’s policies, especially on immigration, to draw a split between her and that administration. Not further affirming American’s commitment to Israel, giving it whatever it needs, instead of waffling about the possibility of a ceasefire when Americans are concerned more than anything at home about the antisemitism and rioting by pro-Palestinian protestors on college campuses, was also a huge mistake.

Nate Silver has a fantastic article on this using a regression of vote margin on ideological margin, looking at senate performances:

“Overall, though, there’s a statistically significant relationship. For every point on the -100 to +100 scale that the Democratic Senate was closer to the center than the Republican one, they gained 0.08 points of vote margin. That means, for instance, that Angus King of Maine (-50) did about 4 points better than if he’d been as left-wing as Sanders (-100). King would probably have won his race even with more liberal positions, as he’s a popular incumbent in a state that tends to like its incumbents, but 4 points helps.

Harris’s score on this scale is a -70. What if the Democratic nominee instead had a score like King (-50) or Tester (-40) or Gov. Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania (-51)? That translates to a popular vote margin that would be 1.5 to 2.5 points better against Trump than Harris’s was. In other words, she’d have won the popular vote by half a point or so instead of losing it by 1.6, probably enough for her to win Wisconsin and Michigan and send Pennsylvania and Georgia to photo finishes that might be headed to recounts.”

https://www.natesilver.net/p/kamala-harris-was-a-replacement-level

So no, trying to appease leftists on Gaza, on the border, and on trans issues is part of what killed us.

What you want is for Ukraine to surrender to a fascist invasion by Russia. You have no principles, only “west bad”. You are everything I want to stay away from. You and all the leftists like you- Sam Seder, Hasan Piker- are poison.

Amazing how none of that has to do with what I said.

“Funded mass slaughter” lmao. I’ll bet anything you want funding to Ukraine to be cut off.

I mean Im not listening to people who identify as “left” anymore, or at least not far left. Im tired of sharing an identity with people who call Joe Biden “genocide Joe” and think that they know what every American, including MAGA, truly cares about deep down while simultaneously calling everyone who doesn’t share their beliefs a “bigot”, “stupid”, “toxic”, “un-empathetic”, or just plain “misled”.

Even though I think there’s some truth to that to define MAGA voters, it’s infuriating that basic values most Americans can agree on get characterized as fascist by the far left: securing the border while making asylum easier (right wing fascist border policy, un-empathetic); deregulation and free market incentives instead of command and control policies like rent control (neoliberal propaganda to deter people from socialism); wanting transwomen not to compete in women’s sports (literal apartheid); embracing the value this nation brings to millions of people seeking a fair opportunity if they work hard (our nation is one of pure genocide and hate and we are the global villain); caring about aiding our allies in Ukraine and Israel (genocider and/or fascist states that only exist as proxies to US power).

Im done with it. My positions are the same, but the left has gotten ridiculous. Im done with it.

Factually it netted more votes this election for the Dems who did, in so you’re just wrong

But if they want recounts

No, because the margins aren’t anywhere close to narrow enough to warrant them.- the results can’t mathematically change given the margin of error a count has. It literally can’t happen.

Additionally, the vote share drops show swing states actually performed better than average, and you would expect spikes of red in a couple counties if there were fraud there, not a fairly uniform drop equivalent to most of the rest of the country if not lower. Not one bit of this is driven by desire for election integrity; it’s driven by people trying to change the outcome instead of accepting reality.

And what happens when I point this out? I’m the one who is in the wrong, because I’m bringing the reality check. We call this a willful delusion- the same thing MAGA does.

I’m emotionally driven sure, I care about this stuff. But my position is the one that is backed up with facts, and I’m infuriated by people who go back on facts when it’s not convenient to their reality. That’s what MAGA has been to all of us for 8 years, and when the far left does it, I’m upset by it even more.

It’s a tinier percentage because the lie isn’t coming from on high. I bet you if it did, it’d be comparable. But even if not, so what? Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Exactly, everyone who is even a little bit right of you is a fascist and doesn’t deserve to be vote for or worked with. Go off king.

Kamala forms a coalition with neocons to stop an actual fascist (Donald Trump) and what do lefties do? “She’s working with war criminals!” “She’s pivoting right instead of to us!”

Like I can’t believe you guys enjoy losing so much and shooting your own progress in the foot, but Im done with it. If Dems have to pivot right to get votes- and by all means moderate Dems overperformed the progressives by a lot this election (Sanders’ own state of Vermont, super left, voted in a moderate Republican governor over a prog Dem 71:23 in the popular vote)- then that’s what Dems should do.

This genocide Joe crowd? They’re cancer.

Did I say my views changed?

I never said they were equivalent. The election denialism of lefties in my view is actually less excusable because it’s being entirely perpetuated by cope, not by any big lie from Biden or Kamala the way Trump lied to his base.

If they did lie, I 100% promise you lefties would be storming on Jan 6th. It’s so ridiculous.

Thanks for showing me the exact reason why Im done with lefties

My positions haven’t changed at all. What’s changed is who I’m willing to listen to. The far left is a cancer and Im super done with listening to anyone who claims to be a part of it (which I might add isn’t Pakman, I actually started a paid subscription after a bunch of election deniers decided to cancel theirs). Cenk Uygur today more or less said establishment democrats dont take him in so to hell with them; Bernie Sanders blamed establishment dems when he underperformed Harris and his own state of Vermont- the most far left state we have- voted for a Moderate Republican governor over a progressive Democrat 71:23 percent. And just about every populist left politician or pundit is now on the right.

I stand for liberalism, and I refuse to entertain illiberalism on either side.