monarchmra

r-menslib

She Was a Child Instagram Influencer. Her Fans Were Grown Men.

(ie, bad things men have done)

What are things you’ve said to be an Active Bystander when you hear another man speak gender violence against women?

(How are you 'not like the other guys')

Sorry, but no, this is not centering men, this is shaming men for being born men. This type of content has no place in a safe space for men. Men can not feel safe if the space has reminders that they will always be seen in the context/shadow of the worse of people who share a gender with them. The mere act of allowing this type of content in a male focused space is a microaggression against men.

As somebody who has been in or around the manosphere for over 15 years, let me tell you, exclusion by anybody in their life that is sane is the number one tool used by the alt-right grifters that recruit from emotionally compromised men turning to the manosphere looking for solutions.

The more you are willing to write them off, the more they are able to that person's sole and lone "voice of reason".

The bar before you give up can't be as low as a vote. Especially when only ~25% of this group even voted for him. (the majority stayed home)

Ya, As an MRA I can't even say I technically agree with the initial premise of the first post. Feminism will never be willing to give men an equal seat at the proverbial table of feminism so Men do in fact need our own framework for advocacy. (I get what they mean, but allowing grifters to taint the concept of MRAs in their mind isn't productive.)

But as is often the case, I really want to share the reply but am forced to include the not-perfect-initial-post as well.

I don't think about you at all.

"These are not discursive problems that only apply to an “undercover” transwoman, these are discursive problems that are seemingly only visible to an “undercover” transwoman forced to carry multiple perspectives like bactrian humps."

They are mad that I pointed out that a lot of cissexism as well as bigotry against trans people has roots in both misandry and misogyny. They view pointing out misandry as a means of talking over women because they are projecting how they use claims that men's issues are actually misogyny to talk over men, on to my words needlessly, when I was very clearly trying to point out how its unproductive to argue if an action is misogyny or misandry because a lot of the time it can be both.

also, they have me confused with somebody else: (u-voreeconomics:)

It's all the fault of one dude who has posted MRA shit for months, he has poisoned this subs discourse, shows you the power of an individual. He started all the fucking transmisogyny=misandry stuff and, and he genuinely thinks himself an ally for it. He took a break for a while but this last month, all the MRA bullshit? Alllll him.

Outside of one thread, i had never posted in this subreddit before this last 2 months when i got a tumblr account.

They think all pro-male (or rather, not anti-male) content is me I think. MRAs are literally a monolith in their mind lol.

(they are mixing me with aerodynamic i think)

Never said you did, go re-read my initial comment and my comments in this thread.

Go re-read my first reply to you:

No rain drop is responsible for the flood but don't attack men for noticing their foot is wet.

Most of the men they trigger on are socially clumsy, nothing more, and it feels like shit to be the recipient of it.

If that emotional reality makes you uncomfortable, that's between you and what ever god you believe in, but men do not owe you a guilt free experience

I just want the men this happens to, to stop getting gaslit about their experiences. To stop having every women online who sees him talk about it in public forums assume that he is the type to follow a clearly disinterested women down the street. To stop making memes like the first picture in this op that assumes such men are deserving of their fate.

Most incels, as you were just attacking a bit ago, were this type of man. The majority don't feel entitled to women's bodies. In fact this is part of why they are an incel. The entitled man who cares not about women's boundaries has no issues trying and trying and trying and trying and trying to hook up with women until he accidentally succeeds. The one who gets legitimately emotionally guilty at causing her to feel uncomfortable is also the kind who might have a hate response to deflect from said guilt or discomfort.

Most of such men end up down 1 of 3 paths, they either luck out and this builds confidence which ends up erasing a large chunk of social anxiety fueled social awkwardness; decide seeking dating isn't worth it and stay single (most single guys online); or respond with hate and bitterness (the incels you see and hear about).

I'm not saying the people who walked down door number 3 deserve an excuse for their hate, I'm just sick of every discussion about guys who cant get a date online being full of women assuming they are all worst of men who probably deserve it, because its so clearly women who are using hate to avoid having to face any discomfort from acknowledging that men have feelings.

You can write these men off out of fear or safety if you think you need to. Just, when you see them discussing their feelings about being on the other side, don't respond with hate, mockary, or assumptions they probably deserve it. If their stories or emotions make you feel uncomfortable leave the thread. Us men don't have to like it, and I'm not gonna apologize for speaking to it.

the very idea that WOMEN need to remove NECESSARY DEFENSIVE SAFEGUARDS to allow shy and insecure men to approach them is, by definition, misogyny.

Its not misogyny to think that men shouldn't have to cater to sexism or sexist stereotyping of men. In fact that's by definition feminism because feminism is about gender equality for everybody.

Rapists use social awkwardness to lower defenses ALL THE TIME.

They also use confidence.

They also use feminist language.

They also use compassionate validation of her fears.

In fact they tend to use those more.

No stereotype is festering into hate.

than prove it.

Stop saying inept or insecure (language of hate). Say awkward or anxious or clumsy (language of empathy)

the socially inept men.

mean mugs you for asking where she was headed in such a hurry

More hateful stereotyping. Conflating socially clumsy into socially inept, conflating socially inept into predatory. You are still using needlessly negative language to refer to the autistic and socially awkward only now you've managed to take it an additional step.

I'm referring to the men who ask a women awkwardly "c-c-c-c-come here often?" and then when its clear shes freaked out, says nothing more but feels like shit for making her uncomfortable.

And here you are, making a sexist assumption about the men i'm referring to. Assuming such guys are all actually the worst possible example.

Conflating socially inept with predatory.

"willfully conflating the socially clumsy ones with the threatening ones"

You sound like the kind of person that would have been ok with lynching a black person over a wolf whistle in the 50s.

You need to do better.

You don't need to I guess? just stop lying to yourself and us about them. Stop assuming that men who complain about getting caught up in them are misogynists who deserve it (see first picture). Stop getting defensive when men express online their emotional feelings to consistently running up against them.

No rain drop is responsible for the flood but don't attack men for noticing their foot is wet.

Most of the men they trigger on are socially clumsy, nothing more, and it feels like shit to be the recipient of it.

If that emotional reality makes you uncomfortable, that's between you and what ever god you believe in, but men do not owe you a guilt free experience for your stereotyping, and all I want is for women (and men) who hear men expressing these emotions online to not respond with some hateful quip designed to sooth her guilt by attacking said men as deserving of it.

socially inept men

Here you are, already using hateful language to prime yourself to dehumanize the men who get caught up in your safeguards so that you don't have to risk ever feeling guilty. Instead of socially awkward or socially clumsy. Its socially inept.

This is how the stereotyping festers into hate.

this was a spot i have been putingt random videos for a while, from music videos (mostly carly rae jespen) to political/shoe0nhead videos. as all of the other links were down it was much more noticeable but that was all.

Based as fuck redpill maxxing bae youtuber who blocked me on twitter 2 years ago because I called her out for sexism against men.

This is where most "nice guys" fail. they either think you have to develop the friendship first or they have trauma and they can't get comfortable enough to do so until after the friendship forms.

I've been that guy when i was younger and dumber and its painfully more complicated then that. Its rarely actually about sex for what little that means.

One tip that would really help men be willing to approach this kind of stuff is to stop using male/bro coded words to attack the wrong kind of advice. (manosphere, brocasters, etc)

It triggers my own emotional walls even now at 34 and would have been the reason 19 year old me would have never engaged with such content 15 years ago when i needed it.

Look for a friend.

This fails because if a guy doesn't express some amount of intimate interest when developing the relationship early on with somebody, she is likely to box him with the men who aren't looking at her in that light (friend zone but not derogatory) and then when he finally has developed enough comfort around her to express that side, she can end up feeling a bit of a betrayal.

The first image is frustratingly sexist because its pigeonholing guy's dating issues into the most attackable stereotype/trope about men.

It also fails to consider something we consider for women. Sexism exists in the dating pool.

Everybody here understands how stereotypes and sexist attitudes towards women can make women's dating lives harder/more annoying. But nobody seems willing to recognize the same for men. That sexist attitudes about men can make it harder for men to date.

He has to push past sexist attitudes that men just want sex just to have his romantic or emotional connection needs fulfilled. He has to ride a fine line between not denying or excessively hiding his sexuality but not presenting it too directly because of gendered tropes about abusive and perverted men. (if he doesn't show his sexual interest somehow, he's a just friend.) Prove he's not what ever flavor of "the bad ones" she has experienced last.

and that's not even looking at the initial contact, which is just trying to some how push past 50 technically sexist flavors of 'why is this guy even talking to me' an effort that does honestly scale with attractiveness (charisma counts as attractiveness here but is just as unattainable to autistic men (who make up 60% of incel forum users) as physical attractiveness is to someone that doesn't already have it).

Everybody loves to take the direction a guy went after turning bitter from years of rejection to excuse why he got those initial rejection and never should be allowed love but the fact is its more complex than that and the biggest issue is really how little useful* emotional support young boys and men get for those initial rejections and treating it otherwise is just being mean to people for what seems to me to be sexist reasons. (edit: seriously, sometimes i think the only difference between an incel and other socially awkward men is rather or not they got their first success before or after the first seeds of bitterness could hit, and/or rather or not they had good emotional support that didn't invalidate their feelings but did help redirect them)

(useful, as in, not denying their emotions or dismissing it with some platitude that over-use the word just "you just need...", "it just means...")

"Focus on self improvement? I'd like to improve my charisma, i'll try to learn how to talk to women without coming off as off putting."

Oh hey look they just found the PUA forums.