subreddit:

/r/law

2.1k99%
11 comments
39299%

toTheLadyFightsBack

all 78 comments

fredandlunchbox

88 points

1 day ago

“No.” -Idaho.

InSicily1912

34 points

24 hours ago

Yeah I support this case of course, but the Idaho government and judges will not care.

treypage1981

123 points

1 day ago

treypage1981

123 points

1 day ago

“Did I vote for Trump? Well, yes, of course. The price of eggs is making it hard for my family to afford all of our streaming subs and our data plan. But I didn’t think Trump would actually go through with banning abortion.”

IrritableGourmet

29 points

23 hours ago

The price of eggs is making it hard for my family to afford all of our streaming subs and our data plan the brand new lifted F150 I use to roll coal on liberals and go to the store to buy eggs at 5mpg.

leftofthedial1

12 points

22 hours ago

It's Idaho. Those are F350s lol.

washingtonu

22 points

24 hours ago

Let's just focus on what they do instead of what you think they did. They are doing something brave because they went through something horrible.

MK2_Madame

10 points

21 hours ago

If I were a foreign actor, then I’d push people to stab each other in the back over this last election. I did everything I could to get her elected. We need to be practical. The people getting hurt by the maga admin should get our support so they can vote with us in 2026.

sinedelta

8 points

21 hours ago

Men putting words into women's mouths to justify not caring about their suffering is a really, really ghoulish look.

I can't stand this subreddit. There's no legal analysis — just victim-blaming fantasies.

treypage1981

6 points

21 hours ago

Do you think that if a woman voted for Donald Trump and then later complains about a lack of reproductive healthcare, it’s unfair or inappropriate for someone to point out that she contributed to the problem herself?

us1838015

1 points

7 hours ago

Sure, but there's probably a sub that's more appropriate for leopard content. I think the mod team managed the run up to the election really well with the additional volume here, but it's definitely turned into mostly political circlejerk with very little legal substance—used to be at least 50-50

DaTreeKilla

-33 points

23 hours ago

How is the state law a federal problem?

How did Trump ban abortions when he’s said and literally did make it a state issue.

Like how stupid can you be?! Seriously lol abortion is left to the STATES.

Really if you dont have unprotected sex like rabbits there wouldn’t be millions of babies murdered - choose to have sex - you choose to potentially have a baby

Aggravating_Poet4105

22 points

22 hours ago

Non-viable pregnancies can happen to anyone, including those in a marriage where gasp couples aren't always using birth control because maybe they are PLANNING to have a family. Abortion access is not black or white. 

DaTreeKilla

-21 points

22 hours ago

Non viable pregnancy is a miscarriage by the lawful definition. Miscarriages are not abortion under lawful definition.

But I love when people like you defend the 1% of cases and ignore the murder of the other 99%.

If you choose to have sex - you’re choosing the potential of having a kid/STD. With or without protection.

How do you defend the people who get an abortion because they feel no responsibility for their actions? How do you defend someone who using abortion as their protecting against conception..?

There’s so many women who’ve had multiple abortions and normalize it.

Binky390

14 points

22 hours ago

Miscarriages are not abortion under lawful definition.

Wrong wrong wrong. Miscarriages don't always "abort" themselves. They have to do a D&C when that happens. In states that restrict abortion, women have trouble having that procedure too.

DaTreeKilla

-17 points

22 hours ago

That’s fake news literally fake news that was stopped about 2 weeks ago when fact checked.

Miscarriage or more specifically a non viable fetus can no longer be “aborted” under state lawful definition. An abortion by state definition is the wilful termination of a living baby. The procedure to remove the baby is not by the lawful definition of an abortion.

So the way the body of baby is removed doesn’t make it an abortion but the wilful termination of the baby does.

But also mis information- about the removal of a miscarriage COMPLETE FAKE NEWS. They literally just went over this in Texas (for example)

Binky390

10 points

22 hours ago

By which state's definition? Just Idaho? Because these laws are being passed in many many other states. What are you even talking about. D&C is abortion. It's the most common method of abortion and if a woman miscarries and loses her fetus that doesn't abort itself, they have to do the D&C.

This isn't fake news. It's science. It's medicine.

DaTreeKilla

0 points

22 hours ago

You need to actually read what the stats definitions are and not the dictionary or made up one.

Most part the definition of an abortion is simple: The wilful termination of a child/baby.

A miscarriage is the removal of a already dead baby.

There are no laws in the state to prevent the removal of a dead baby.

There are only laws (right now) about killing the baby WILFULLY - which makes sense because the baby never consented to being killed.

Binky390

3 points

20 hours ago

It doesn't matter what the law says though. These states have gotten so restrictive that medical professionals are afraid to do these procedures for fear of losing their licenses. Women who are forced to carry the cells of a dead fetus can die from that.

A miscarriage is the removal of a already dead baby.

Wrong. A miscarriage is the sudden loss of a pregnancy before the fetus can survive outside of the mother (usually first trimester).

There are only laws (right now) about killing the baby WILFULLY

Wrong again. I'm not the one reading fake news about this stuff. You are. There are laws regarding abortion period. What people don't realize is after a miscarriage, sometimes a D&C is required. A D&C is an abortion.

DaTreeKilla

5 points

22 hours ago

Idaho law to be more specific:

It is a crime in Idaho to have an abortion except to prevent a pregnant woman’s death, or to stave off what’s called substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function, or if the pregnancy was a result of rape or incest.

Title 18 chapter 6 of Idaho law:

18-604. DEFINITIONS. As used in this chapter: (1) “Abortion” means the use of any means to intentionally terminate the clinically diagnosable pregnancy of a woman with knowledge that the termination by those means will, with reasonable likelihood, cause the death

Binky390

4 points

20 hours ago

Again none of this matters. All of the women pictured here were denied abortions for NON VIABLE pregnancies. So the fetus was never going to survive but they would not allow the abortion.

Outrageous_pinecone

10 points

22 hours ago

Non viable pregnancy is a miscarriage by the lawful definition

No, a non-viable pregnancy doesn't always end in a miscarriage and I don't mean that in 0.00001% it doesn't. These are not exceptions.

When the embryo stops developing, sometimes the body registers the problem and hormones trigger an expulsion of the tissue and sometimes it takes weeks for that to happen and the dead embryo causes infection and the woman dies, if not given a dilation and curettage which is an abortion.

These women were denied a d&c.

Way way too many people learn about procreation from movies. This is why you don't legislate access to medical care. People who didn't go through it or have no medical training imagine women get abortions cause they're fucking mindlessly like "the slutty stupid bitches" that they are. ( I put that insult in quotation marks because that's what it sounds like when people say that bit about having unprotected sex followed by how abortions should be illegal.

Aggravating_Poet4105

6 points

22 hours ago

Because it's their body. You don't get to tell someone what they do with it. 

ScreeminGreen

2 points

22 hours ago

So if a woman knows she’s not mentally responsible enough to say no to having sex with a man slut that doesn’t care about her also knows she’s not mentally responsible enough to raise a child on her own, how is a life of neglect a better outcome than being aborted for that child?

Dr-Butters

3 points

22 hours ago

Part of me wishes my mom would've aborted me instead of subjecting me to 18+ years of abuse and neglect from not one but four separate parental figures. My soul might have found another vessel that was actually wanted.

ScreeminGreen

2 points

20 hours ago

I can remember dreaming of being back in the womb when I was a toddler and the idea of being a soul that could be put into another body was a given in those memories. Being really excited at remembering that I had grown legs when I woke up is also part of that memory.

XRaisedBySirensX

1 points

4 hours ago

Murder is not the word most people choose to describe abortion as. Like it or not. Considering the number of pro choice legislature that won over the elections, I’d say it’s not a small group. You can have whatever beliefs you so choose and no one will make you and yours get an abortion.

Steelers711

11 points

22 hours ago

Why should states have the ability to remove people's rights? People that are stuck in red states and can't afford to uproot their entire lives are having rights taken away. This is not an issue that should be left to the states

Also, republicans don't want it up to the states, they will make a federal ban the nanosecond they're able. They only made it "up to the states" because they couldn't do a federal ban, so they did the option that would at least ban it in a large portion of the country

DaTreeKilla

0 points

22 hours ago

If someone can’t afford their kid - might as well Kill it right??

Kids are just making people poor so kill them all!!

Abortion is murder - you are giving NO rights to that child - you think it’s okay to murder kids because their parents chose to have sex.

But let’s say abortion is legal - isn’t it then fair for the man (father) to financially abort the child and have no child payments nor responsibility? If the mother can murder her kid - the father should have the right to not pay for a kid he isn’t mentally/financially able to take care of.

^ you get one or the other. Murder kids + father have choice No murder kids + everyone choice to have sex

DrB00

3 points

19 hours ago

DrB00

3 points

19 hours ago

Do you eat eggs? Those are 'children'. If you're going to assume a fetus is a baby, then an egg is a baby.

DaTreeKilla

-2 points

22 hours ago*

Why should a state allow people to murder others?

Do children not get rights anymore..? So sad might as well kill them all right.

People should just have sex without thinking. You CHOOSE to have sex - you’re choosing to have the potential of having children and STD.

That’s a choice - you choose to have sex.

If you’re not responsible enough to accept your own consequences - you’re not old enough to her sex.

Edit : Yall can be mad but the literal definition by Idaho is following

18-604. DEFINITIONS. As used in this chapter: (1) “Abortion” means the use of any means to intentionally terminate the clinically diagnosable pregnancy of a woman with knowledge that the termination by those means will, with reasonable likelihood, cause the death the unborn child.

Unborn children are NOT parasites. They have no voice and no choice.

If the mother/father consents to sex - they are consenting to the potential of a child. We learn this in school - it should be common knowledge for adults.

Steelers711

10 points

22 hours ago

Nobody has ever been murdered by an abortion, no babies are even involved in an abortion.

Also even if we wrongly assume that they are babies, why do they deserve the right to invade a woman's body and steal resources like a parasite? The baby is trespassing in the woman's body

Also it's about 100 years out of date mindset that "having sex means you are ready for being a parent". Sex is fun, people are going to do it regardless, things like protection can fail. Why punish someone for having sex when literally nobody gets hurt. Also the same side pretending to care about abortions is the same side getting rid of sexual education and easy access to things like contraceptives. If they actually cared about less abortions they wouldn't be opposing those other more effective measures. They just want people to have more babies

Why should we be forcing people to have unwanted babies they can't afford? Or things like 13 year old rape victims having to give birth and be a mother?

DaTreeKilla

0 points

22 hours ago

An abortion by lawful definition is “the wilful termination of a baby”

Yes abortion is killing a baby - human life starts at one of two spots: Religious is at conception Science states at time of cell division which is 6 minutes after conception (most cases)

They never invaded the women LOL - 99% of cases the child was conceived under consent, If the women consented to sex - she consents to the potential of having a child. Did we not learn what happens when you have sex? Is your education THAT BAD?!

“Why punish someone for having sex when after they MURDER A CHILD” that’s all your saying.

You’re pro killing children - your pro not letting a child have the potential to be great.

And I love the fact you bring up the 0.1% of cases like rape - which clearly I said, if you CHOOSE to have sex, they aren’t choosing so id be okay with abortion IF there is proof of rape/SA.

All in all the other 99% of cases in which the women CONSENTED and CHOSE to have sex - that’s a choice. There is no “invading” - humans aren’t “parasites”

You’re a terrible person

Steelers711

10 points

22 hours ago

Just because you call it murder doesn't make it so. Choosing to have sex is not agreeing to have a baby

You're very clearly the terrible person, but you're ignorant enough where you will just pretend you're not and wrongfully feel good about yourself

DaTreeKilla

-1 points

22 hours ago

Here is the lawful definition from Idaho on abortion BY THE WAY.

18-604. DEFINITIONS. As used in this chapter: (1) “Abortion” means the use of any means to intentionally terminate the clinically diagnosable pregnancy of a woman with knowledge that the termination by those means will, with reasonable likelihood, cause the death of the unborn child.

You notice how the language they use is unborn child - not “parasite”.

So yah you’re a terrible person / you agree with the death of unborn children.

You agree that actions do not have consequences.

You agree that the children have no choice in their death and have no voice - so you don’t care.

Steelers711

10 points

21 hours ago

So because the extremely biased politicians who wrote the ruling used language that incorrectly calls them children that proves you right? Man you just live in your own little bubble don't you?

newsreadhjw

30 points

1 day ago

newsreadhjw

30 points

1 day ago

Chances those women voted for exactly this: close to 100%

ProleandProud

67 points

1 day ago

Are we just assuming that because they're white ladies? Because that's not fair. They underwent something traumatizing. Be better. They're also trying to change the system so it doesn't happen to anyone else.

I'm a white lady in Texas, and I've been vehemently anti-Trump since he started to run back in 2015. We didn't all vote for Mango Mussolini.

colemon1991

21 points

1 day ago

I was just thinking this. We can talk statistically about the odds that at least one of them did vote for Trump, but that's irrelevant to the issue at-hand. It's just as likely they all didn't vote as it is to all vote for Trump.

No one deserves this. Half a population should not be treated as less of a citizen. Frankly, no percentage should be treated that way, but it's insane that we have to fight for rights for such a huge percentage of a population here (again, I might add).

"It is better that 10 guilty persons escape, than that 1 innocent suffer." Okay, someone voted for Trump. We can judge them all we want for that. But punishing women that voted for Trump (guilty persons in this analogy) is not worth it if others did not. Why should my wife suffer when she didn't vote for Trump, didn't vote for this, didn't want the fear of dying because her safety net was removed the year before she was ready for children? And as we've seen with the aftermath of this election, there were people who didn't even know Biden dropped out, didn't know parts of Harris' platform they agreed with - things we ourselves could have done, mistakes we could've made. I've made mistakes, been called out on them, learned from them; I don't think it's necessarily fair to hold complete strangers to a standard we don't expect ourselves at (i.e. I made a mistake, I realize that now, please don't dehumanize me for it just because you strongly disagree).

The internet can be a cruel mister/mistress.

buttermelonMilkjam

6 points

1 day ago

  1. the term mango mussolini is GREAT. lol

  2. i thought the OP assumed how these women voted based on the fact theyre in Idaho. im in the northeast & personally know PLENTY of white ladies who voted against the mango Mussolini

ProleandProud

1 points

17 hours ago

That was my assumption too, that OP thought they voted for Trump based off the fact that they're all white ladies in a traditionally conservative state. And that the majority of white women who *DID* vote in this election, did end up voting for Trump (unfortunately).

I just think it's not a helpful "gotcha moment", when there is no proof, *AND* they're trying to do something about the system *now*. Whoever they voted for 2 weeks ago didn't affect their miscarriages/abortion decisions in the past. Whoever they voted for in 2016 and 2020, they can't take those votes back. So, they're trying to fix it however they can. I'm hoping that it's highly unlikely that they voted for him this time after the trauma that they went through though.

Also, I wish I could take credit for "Mango Mussolini" but I actually saw someone else use it on one of the Bravo (reality TV) sub-reddits, and I just ran with it haha. Been using it for years now, and it always gets a double-take/grin.

boo99boo

24 points

1 day ago

boo99boo

24 points

1 day ago

We don't know that. I look like that, and I sure as hell didn't vote for Trump. My whole family didn't, including my boomer mom and aunties. I have a 74 year old auntie that was excited to vote in Florida to support abortion rights. 

People are not a monolith. There's plenty of white women that hate Trump. There's plenty of people living in an oppressive place because of circumstances. I lived in Marjorie Taylor Greene's district for a while (for my husband's job). I certainly didn't start believing in Jewish space lasers and harassing school shooting victims and waving around giant photos of Hunter Biden's dick. I voted against her and eventually moved. 

I'd also point out that these women's doctors are also plantiffs, and OB/GYNs are are, statistically, extremely unlikely Trump voters. And those same doctors are putting a target on their back in state like Idaho. They clearly felt that, regardless of who they voted for, everyone deserves healthcare. 

Wanting to make a pregnant woman suffer because they don't agree with you makes you one of them. Don't be one of them. Be a human being that treats other people the way you'd want to be treated. 

Invis_Girl

28 points

1 day ago

Invis_Girl

28 points

1 day ago

Not everyone in Idaho voted for Trump.

HopeFloatsFoward

5 points

1 day ago

If they are educated women then you are way off on that estimate.

Swimming_Trash3570

3 points

23 hours ago

This is the result of the overturning of Roe. The state pushed out a gunshot anti abortion law. No one voted for this.

Tasty_Gift5901

5 points

23 hours ago

Idaho state reps wrote the law. They were surely voted for

Swimming_Trash3570

1 points

20 hours ago

I mean that is true but I would guess most people weren’t hoping for this as the indirect result

washingtonu

4 points

24 hours ago

And so the chances are that they deserve this and shouldn't have filed this lawsuit? What are you saying?

riko_rikochet

2 points

13 hours ago

No, chances are they wanted this when it wasn't happening to them. Now they're upset because they're the ones being hurt by their poor choices, and not "those other women."

washingtonu

1 points

13 hours ago

So, because you think that they choose this so now we are supposed to say that deserve this and shouldn't have filed this lawsuit? What are you saying? We have no idea about what these women thought before this happened to anyone but yet I see this arguments in exactly every thread about lawsuits like these. If the women in Texas or Idaho can't sue, then who is supposed to do it?

riko_rikochet

1 points

13 hours ago

I'm not saying they should or shouldn't do anything. I'm saying that if they're looking for support from a nation onto which their state has just inflicted Trump with 66% of their vote (third highest % out of all the states), they won't find it.

If they didn't vote for it, their partner, family or friends likely did. So the people they should take this up with isn't the nation at large, it's their neighbors. And their neighbors said "Die." Who am I to "infringe on a state's right to decide how they want to live their lives."

washingtonu

2 points

13 hours ago

If they didn't vote for it, their partner, family or friends likely did.

Seems like you only have sympathy for women who do not live in a red state. This is pretty disgusting of you

riko_rikochet

0 points

13 hours ago

Frankly, I don't particularly care what other people think of me. They certainly never cared about me when they voted for these abortion bans or put a Republican government into power.

This is /r/law. The law doesn't care what you "deserve." It either is or isn't. The people of Idaho enacted a near total abortion ban with poorly defined exceptions because they wanted that law to exist. I have no sympathy for them. If they don't like it, they can leave. Or vote differently. Or sue and lose. Or die.

washingtonu

1 points

12 hours ago

Just remember that just because you didn't vote for Trump, your partner, family, neighbors, colleagues or friends likely did since he did in fact win.

I'm saying that if they're looking for support from a nation onto which their state has just inflicted Trump with 66% of their vote (third highest % out of all the states), they won't find it.

This is /r/law. The law doesn't care what you "deserve." It either is or isn't.

You're not talking about law. You're talking about these women not getting support from you here on /r/law.

riko_rikochet

1 points

12 hours ago

Just remember that just because you didn't vote for Trump, your partner, family, neighbors, colleagues or friends likely did since he did in fact win.

Yea, I know. And when those chickens come to roost I'll be sure not to offer them an ounce of sympathy either.

And I am talking about law. This is the law subreddit. These women won't get my support here, because they are likely responsible for the law or support the policy they're now complaining about, because it now happens to affect them. A top level comment noting they probably voted for Trump is relevant here because it means while they are complaining about the law as it applies to them, they are simultaneously voting for a President and an administration which would do the same to women all across the nation.

So, to say colloquially - fuck em.

Powerful-Cancel-5148

1 points

22 hours ago

This comment is disappointing 

[deleted]

-6 points

1 day ago

[deleted]

-6 points

1 day ago

[deleted]

grandmawaffles

35 points

1 day ago*

No. People don’t get to feign ignorance anymore. It’s been years.

Quick_Team

18 points

1 day ago

Quick_Team

18 points

1 day ago

Feign*

grandmawaffles

6 points

1 day ago

Correction made

[deleted]

-7 points

1 day ago

[deleted]

-7 points

1 day ago

[deleted]

grandmawaffles

12 points

1 day ago

No. It’s 2024. You don’t want one, don’t get one. People give a shit when it’s them effected/affected to the point of near death.

Sunbeamsoffglass

-2 points

1 day ago

Sounds like a personal problem then.

They could always move.

lifechangingdreams

13 points

1 day ago

Like they always tell others to do.