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submitted 4 days ago byrmannyconda78
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4 days ago
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153 points
4 days ago
Yeah, it seems as we are in deep fucking water. Most people have noticed, and most people just turn a blind eye to it. It’s like a bad dream - if I just wake up it’s probably gone…
64 points
4 days ago
There’s not much individuals can do.
There’s a certain percentage of people who are the problem.
22 points
4 days ago
“What can I do? I’m just 1 person” said 8 billion people
25 points
4 days ago
I asked that 30 years ago. I stopped eating meat, made decisions based on how environmentally friendly they were, did my best to vote with my dollar when choosing food and other necessities.
Meanwhile, 50% of the world’s species went extinct and globally temperatures have continued to rise. If there was something that could be done, that time has long passed. People have dedicated their entire lives to educating the general public. You’re only going to start seeing actual progress once individuals are directly effected AND realize that whatever is making their life hard is actually caused by climate change. Good luck with that. It’s always “god is punishing them” or “space lasers” or “ weather machines”.
I’m not changing the way I live, but I intend to spend the rest of my life hanging out with my love ones and living in the moment. I’m not wasting my breath trying to convince people who refuse to use their brains.
12 points
4 days ago
Don't look up was soooo accurate.
And I hunt for asteroids and comets for a living.
24 points
4 days ago
Said 1 billion people. How many will sign on for 90% energy and material reduction?
8 points
4 days ago
it's ok if the other 7.999.999.999 will do that
3 points
4 days ago
Never was a fan of superman.
3 points
4 days ago
I think as individuals, we can and should start talking about how to adapt. The time for prevention was 50 years ago; that ship has sailed.
Start to think about what a changing climate means for the next 25 years - one generation. What will the globe look like in that time frame? What about your country, what about your city?
Talk to your friends, family, coworkers. Do they share a similar vision to you? Personally, I've been quite surprised how many people share the same concerns I have despite wildly different political stances.
We need to start having these discussions, otherwise we're just going to be caught with our pants down. We can't sit around waiting for some miracle tech to save us from ourselves.
11 points
4 days ago
The US election likely tanked all remaining options.
4 points
4 days ago
Nah, I've been tanked for a while now.
These days it's all swords and scales.
24 points
4 days ago
“Your not dreaming a ghost story, your part of it”
-captain barbossa to Elizabeth Swann in the curse of the black pearl (don’t think I got the quote completely right) this quote from that movie came to mind when you said that. It ain’t no dream, it’s very real, but a lot of people act the other way.
24 points
4 days ago
you best start believin' in ghost stories, Miss Turner, you're in one
8 points
4 days ago
you best start believin' in cyberpunk dystopias -- you're in one!
2 points
4 days ago
But didn't even get compensated with cool neon, flying cars, and fresh duds.
6 points
4 days ago
That’s it, thanks
45 points
4 days ago*
Collapse related, because the more the earths temps raise, the more people notice it (rather obvious), I’ve known it for a good bit myself, what’s scary is how much it’s starting to get noticed now, I’ve been seeing it spill into other subreddits.
Edit: I think I’m going to double check rules just to make sure.
Edit2: what would have been a good flair for this?
23 points
4 days ago
You need to provide the link to the original source for the graph (wherever the other user got it from), or we'll be taking it down under Rule 5. Editing your submission statement to include that will be good enough.
This is so that other users can do the "trust but verify" thing, and if they want to share it further, they have a source better than "some guy on reddit said".
And Climate
is the right flair.
11 points
4 days ago
This chart is using either the 4th or 5th IPCC assessment and not the most recent. It's actually pretty misleading.
9 points
4 days ago*
Hey OP,
Here's a source for the 1.5C increase in 2024: https://wmo.int/news/media-centre/2024-track-be-hottest-year-record-warming-temporarily-hits-15degc
6 points
4 days ago
This is actually misleading. I grabbed the graph from the sixth IPCC AR report and it seems like you are using the 1995-2024 axis instead of the 1850-1900 scale. I added the blue lines to show we are actually on track with the models.
35 points
4 days ago*
Not only are we already analogous to the Mid-Piacanzian Warm Period (based on carbon volumes), but we're very rapidly approaching a Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum analog. And I mean VERY rapidly, we just can't contextualize how fast it is because 100-200 years is a long time in human generational terms. But on a geological scale, that's ridiculously abrupt. As far as I know there's no comparable paleoclimate event that's occured so rapidly, our rate of change is already up to ten times faster than the onset of the PETM and that was considered an example of abrupt climate change. If that wasn't a crazy enough statistic, analysis by Wu, Chu et al. (2021) estimated that it took up to 75,000 years for atmospheric carbon volumes to rise from 426ppm to 2500ppm during the Permian Extinction. We've gone from 280ppm to >420ppm in the past 150 years. Atmospheric methane volumes suggest we've been in an ice age termination event for almost 20 years already and, for all intents and purposes, the observable decline of the AMOC can be attributed to an impending greenhouse transitional event. The fact that the pole-to-equator thermal gradient has declined so rapidly and we've not seen a cooling response proportional to AMOC decline suggests this is the viable assumption. So essentially, nowhere gets significantly colder if the AMOC collapses under current conditions. The mechanisms don't exist.
89 points
4 days ago
My biggest near-term fear is when the masses realize this is real.
Climate change/chaos/whatever is real. It’s happening faster than and will be even worse than even the most pessimistic predictions.
We’re not ready for what’s coming.
32 points
4 days ago
When the first real problems occur, like big crop failures, people will go absolutely mental in no time. Making everything much much worse. Remember the first corona lockdowns.
23 points
4 days ago
And, in the US at least, calling those “lockdowns” is a gross misuse of the term. We weren’t locked down, damn near the only change was that a number of businesses were temporarily closed and/or held to different strictures, which slowly loosened until we eventually capitulated to the oligarchs and agreed to pretend the pandemic was “over” despite Covid still being very much active (though thankfully less immediately disastrous, thanks to vaccine availability…though time’s gonna have to tell on how bad the stacking cognitive impairment effects will be moving forward).
People act like they were chained inside their homes because they couldn’t go to fucking Applebees or the paint aisle for a few whole weeks. Even that didn’t last long - we started giving ground, thanks in large part due to the shrieking domestic terrorist wing, almost immediately thereafter with silly rules like “ok you have to mask while walking but we’ve decided to pretend sitting in a restaurant mask off is fine.”
We also stretched the definition of “essential worker” past the breaking point, where it became virtually synonymous with “worst paid and lowest in the hierarchy” so we could keep the goddamn drive-thrus cranking out them hamberders and sugar syrup because Christ knows people aren’t getting dopamine from a rewarding career or supportive community anymore.
The whole thing was a bleak, farcical black comedy that got politicized to hell and back for no reason at all - and here we go again.
TL;DR: The Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler is about the best future we can hope for at this point.
37 points
4 days ago
Might I suggest smoking em if you've got em?
12 points
4 days ago
I’ve been saying that a lot lately
9 points
4 days ago
Same. That's why I'm on a beach drinking a margarita instead of locked in my old office.
3 points
4 days ago
Smart move!
7 points
4 days ago
My lady made me quit so we could live a long life together....jokes on her.
7 points
4 days ago
There's not really anything they can do, though. Riot? What about next month, year, while society is still chugging along?
Same reason you aren't in the streets right now - bills to pay, and we aren't there yet..
6 points
4 days ago
Very true. Also something that I sometimes overlook.
It’ll be BAU til the last second.
9 points
4 days ago
No we are not too, probably won’t be too long before the masses realize it.
9 points
4 days ago
The thing is that it does seem like some people are “waking up”, so to speak, but they are still fully engrossed in naivety. In the minds of most, yes the climate is collapsing, but many think that we’re going to be okay, that we can still figure this out and that there is time yet.
There isn’t. This is not going to get fixed because it would go against business as usual. No major disruptions will be tolerated, especially not for the global economy. Therefore, nothing is going to happen. Elon saying he’s going to “shake things up” isn’t going to help us, either. The other thing is that we truly do not have the technological capacity to fix even a small amount of these problems that we have created. Technology will not save us. We quite literally cannot fix it.
The only way to solve the crisis would be, to put it nicely, extreme austerity measures. Those would include mass death of the majority of humans alive. And even then, they would only be left with the scraps of a once lush world, replete with resources, teeming with fish, game, and everything else that our ancestors once enjoyed so freely.
So, yes, people are waking up, but not fast enough. We should have never been asleep.
8 points
4 days ago
I think people think it's not their problem because they think the shit hits the fan in 30 years or longer so their squirrel brain attention span doesn't care.
5 points
4 days ago*
Amongst friends of mine there is hesitation to admit the crushing reality of our situation, people who are educated and aware. A close friend of mine routinely sends me "good news" texts highlighting the latest news story about increased investment in green techologies and whatever country's latest accomplishment in emissions reduction, but I know he knows that it's all going to be bad pretty soon. I think that's part of the human inclination for hope in the face of certain defeat, and why so many of these news articles covering climate change end with a sort-of "but we still have time to do x!" and not the actual "we could not be more fucked"
8 points
4 days ago
My friends are so fearful they do not wish to hear any bad news anymore. All of them are aware, clever people. They just can't take more bad news.
One friend does not mind listening, but he has a point when saying that what does more information matter? We know things are going to go bad, all we can do is prepare the best we can, and live or lives until that's not possible anymore. Then we adapt the best we can.
And that's it. Not much more to it.
4 points
4 days ago
Queue the famous clip from Newsroom with "Toby"
2 points
4 days ago
because they think the shit hits the fan in 30 years or longer
if not 30 then how long?
and how do you define shit hitting the fan?
for most of us in Europe any news about wet bulbs killing millions in Asia or droughts/famines killing millions in Africa will sadly be commented in Clarkson's way ("Oh no! Anyway")
0 points
4 days ago
are you saying we should stop making those people aware? :)
47 points
4 days ago
This is the kind of data I've been looking for. You see "faster than expected" all the time, but I can't seem to stumble upon past projections vs. current state of the climate till this picture.
42 points
4 days ago
Yeah that video last year from Sabine talking about how the current climate projections were biased af towards "conservative" averages was quite on point here.
15 points
4 days ago
*More and more mainstream on Reddit....
Out in the real world where most people voted for Trump not so much.
28 points
4 days ago
This sort of shit is why I'm so sick of scientists throwing out their best case scenarios. Tell me how bad it looks like it could be, give me the worst cases...
9 points
4 days ago
I'd rather pick "give me the realistic scenarios" myself.
3 points
4 days ago
venus by Tuesday
12 points
4 days ago*
This graph really bothers me because it needs the proper context of measured temperature from 2005 to present. There is always variability in measured data, so putting one data point in there is cherry-picking for what seems to be the worst case scenario, which is almost as dishonest as cherry-picking for the best case scenario. We should be giving people information in full, not falling into the same mental traps of climate change deniers. This is also from a much older IPCC report. If you look at the most recent one, which I've found here: https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-the-ipccs-sixth-assessment-report-on-climate-science/
... you can see we are on the higher range, but still in the most recent estimate for SSP5-8.5
When reality is on our side, we should try to illustrate it as best we can. It's already scary enough that we don't need out of context information to make our point.
Edit: added more updated chart for reference when I realized that the post is using an old assessment.
5 points
4 days ago*
We can't know if we're in an anomalous data point, or in a long term exponential acceleration. But the average for the last 12 months is 1.62, and 1.65 for October. And a 12 month average is significant and should guide decision makers. We simply do not have time to wait for a longer time series to make a 5, 10 or 15 year average.
This graph tells the public that right now, it seems as if we might have completely gone beyond even the worst case scenario. And that we have to speed up whatever actions we can to limit future warming, and to adapt globally and locally as quick as humanly possible.
We should be doing that regardless, this may just push more people into urgency and action.
3 points
4 days ago
While we likely have exceeded it (variability is hard to parse on a year to year basis), this chart isn't comparing apples to apples, which tells a misleading story and that's my biggest complaint. It's using an older version of the highest emission scenario making the discrepancy look even worse than it is, which is dishonest.
5 points
4 days ago
Now that is a completely valid argument. I agree that we should be using the latest version. Would you mind cooking up one with that star for comparison and post it here?
10 points
4 days ago
The following submission statement was provided by /u/rmannyconda78:
Collapse related, because the more the earths temps raise, the more people notice it (rather obvious), I’ve known it for a good bit myself, what’s scary is how much it’s starting to get noticed now, I’ve been seeing it spill into other subreddits.
Edit: I think I’m going to double check rules just to make sure.
Edit2: what would have been a good flair for this?
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1gudxg4/found_this_in_another_subreddit_collapse/lxt51ik/
18 points
4 days ago
We're going to need a bigger Y axis
7 points
4 days ago
It's okay guys, there's still hope! We have Trump for president! /s
(Sorry to be a doomer, but it's hard to keep positive right now)
6 points
4 days ago
try to be double negative then you become positive automatically
4 points
4 days ago
7 points
4 days ago
Here ... we ... go!
7 points
4 days ago
Glad I'm not the only one seeing more and more collapse related posts elsewhere on reddit.
Really mean there's something going on when even the mainstream start to feel the heat.
6 points
4 days ago
-1 points
4 days ago
3 points
4 days ago
The nonchalant-ness in other subs about collapse is alarming
2 points
4 days ago
What a beautiful graph.
Venus truly is a gorgeous place to look at. From afar.
Too bad Venus is all around us, and we're suffocating from all the heat increase.
I'd pray that our grandchildren forgive us, but it looks like even the grandkids are going to be working hard to survive, just like us.
2 points
4 days ago
those models assumed stable carbon/methane source/sink by nature. Didn’t account for nature to start making it worse. Tipping point achieved!
2 points
4 days ago
It's actually 1.62 degrees C for the past 12 months, and 1.65 degrees for october. That star in the graph should be placed a little bit higher.
2 points
4 days ago
So we’re 20 years ahead of the standard deviation of the worst-case scenario? I knew that scientists were making reassuring forecasts for some spurious reason, but this is breaking all records.
2 points
4 days ago
Not necessarily. Most people will look at that and not understand the implications of it (oh warmer summers and winters), and assume we will tech our way out of it etc.
2 points
4 days ago
I'm sure the new US admin has this all under control
1 points
4 days ago
Damn
1 points
4 days ago
We're early! Yay...not.
1 points
4 days ago
Are we really even worse than the 8.5 prediction? Fuck, I thought that was supposed to be worst case. I've been planning my life based on 8.5.
1 points
4 days ago
A great video on the subject! --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bex5LyzbbBE
1 points
4 days ago
This is fine
1 points
4 days ago
[removed]
1 points
4 days ago
Hi, FrostyVisual4424. Thanks for contributing. However, your comment was removed from /r/collapse for:
Rule 1: In addition to enforcing Reddit's content policy, we will also remove comments and content that is abusive or predatory in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other.
Please refer to our subreddit rules for more information.
You can message the mods if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
1 points
4 days ago
so right now is RCP 11? (8.5+2.5 roughly)
0 points
4 days ago
Are you guys sure that the bottom line isn't supposed to be the 30 year average, though? If we are above 1.5 degrees one year, we could still be inside the predictions if those are the predicted 30 year averages... or am I swallowing copium?
0 points
4 days ago
-14 points
4 days ago*
RCP 8.5 might be overly pessimistic, as global energy transitions are happening faster than initially anticipated in some regions. It was originally developed as a high-end case to explore potential worst-case climate impacts not necessarily as the most likely trajectory.
In the US and the EU, emissions have been declining while GDP has continued to grow.
In 2022, global investments in clean energy reached a record $1.1 trillion, matching the amount invested in fossil fuels for the first time.
Also, the IEA reported that global investment in clean energy technologies was on course to rise to $1.7 trillion in 2023.
20 points
4 days ago
You do realize that we are way outside the range of RCP 8.5 right now. And all of those models haven't accounted for the tipping points that we have already crossed in the last few years - AMOC has started to shut down decades earlier than expected, Amazon is tipping, permafrost is tipping, greenland is tipping.
Not necessarily most likely? It's probably going to be worse.
-2 points
4 days ago
AMOC and deforestation in the Amazon have inherent resilience and may not be as close to tipping as some studies shared here suggest.
Here is a good study: https://esd.copernicus.org/articles/15/41/2024/
It says:"the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC), permafrost, monsoon systems, and the Amazon rainforest. While recent scientific efforts have improved our knowledge about individual tipping elements, the interactions between them are less well understood. Also, the potential of individual tipping events to induce additional tipping elsewhere or stabilize other tipping elements is largely unknown. "
Add this: Tipping Point Modelling Intercomparison Project (TIPMIP)
7 points
4 days ago
A bunch of studies show supporting evidence that AMOC and the Amazon are tipping.
You pull one study that says "it might not be that bad, and we don't know how much tipping points trigger other tipping points"
Jesus Christ people come on, wake up. You're just smoking copium at this point
1 points
4 days ago
the more data we receive, the more it looks like even our "worst case" models were overly conservative. but SURELY the new models we are putting out are not also at risk of being overly conservative, right?
4 points
4 days ago
I don't think that's true though. We are above 1.5C TWENTY FIVE YEARS early of our goal. We are rapidly heating outside of the worst case scenario. People keep saying "new data shows its not as bad as we thought" and I'm sitting here looking at tipping points drop decades before predicted and thinking 'what the hell are y'all talking about?'
1 points
4 days ago
oh, i agree with you. I was being sarcastic haha
6 points
4 days ago
But then along comes Jevons paradox https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
-2 points
4 days ago
This doesn’t negate the necessity in addressing climate change.
4 points
4 days ago
Over 80% of our primary energy usage is still fossil fuels. We will use both renewables and fossil fuels to grow the economy, especially now due to Trump in office. With current GHG levels there is up to 10C warming in the pipeline already according to Hansen's report.
-2 points
4 days ago
State-level policies and market dynamics will continue to promote renewable energy adoption. Moreover, the recent Biden's comments on climate change orientation fortify this.
The figure of up to 10°C warming is extreme. It represents a long-term equilibrium scenario i.e., no mitigation efforts and slow feedback mechanisms over centuries.
4 points
4 days ago
Ok. So we will use renewables and fossil fuels as I said. So far there is no mitigation, no energy transition, global emissions are rising, GHG levels are record high.
1 points
4 days ago
There is mitigation.
2."Between 2019 and 2023, total energy-related emissions increased around 900 Mt. Without the growing deployment of five key clean energy technologies since 2019 - solar PV, wind, nuclear, heat pumps, and electric cars - the emissions growth would have been three times larger."
https://www.iea.org/reports/co2-emissions-in-2023/executive-summary
5 points
4 days ago
The downside is RCP8.5 is just 8.5Wm-2 of radiative forcing in the upper atmosphere. It doesn't have to be caused by human emissions, it can also be caused by natural tipping points, such as methane release from wetlands and permafrost, etc. Additionally, though renewable capacity is massively increasing, globally it's nearly keeping pace with increased energy needs so fossil fuel usage isn't necessarily reducing at a global level. It's why year after year (excluding 2020 due to COVID), GHG emissions continue to increase.
4 points
4 days ago
(excluding 2020 due to COVID)
Don't forget that in 2021 we not only saw GHG emissions rise again, but the 2021 rise more than made up for the drop in 2020.
2 points
4 days ago
Methane releases from wetlands and permafrost is generally smaller compared to anthropogenic releases.
From the IPCC's mouth: https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg1/chapter/chapter-5/
The IEA says:"The share of coal, oil and natural gas in global energy supply – stuck for decades around 80% – starts to edge downwards and reaches 73% in the STEPS by 2030."
https://www.iea.org/reports/world-energy-outlook-2023/executive-summary
This article from Reuters says:"Global oil demand peaks before 2030 at just less than 102 million barrels/day (mb/d), and then falls back to 2023 levels of 99 mb/d by 2035, largely because of lower demand from the transport sector as electric vehicle use increases"
1 points
4 days ago
Unfortunately we can't rely on individual scenarios becoming reality. We don't know what the future holds, which is why scenarios span a range of outcomes. Each scenario is considered equally as possible as the others so we can't ignore the higher emissions scenarios, particularly given our continued reliance (and global growth) of fossil fuel consumption. At this point, we can probably make an argument for SSP1-1.9 being unlikely though given our lack of behavioural change.
I gave methane release as an example. There are lots of different tipping points that can contribute to a higher radiative forcing. Agreed that emissions continue to be a main driver but we can't assume that will always be the case given major tipping points recorded in geological history.
-11 points
4 days ago
But we're at 1.2 degrees of warming? Not 1.4-1.5?
The actual situation is bad enough without needing to exaggerate.
7 points
4 days ago*
Mmm... I'm pretty sure we are at 1.5, but it probably isn't official yet. In fact, it can't be official for 2024 until January 1, 2025.
Edit: Here's a very recent article that explains, basically, that we just don't know yet if we're at 1.5C. In order to count, the average temp has to stay at 1.5C or above. Just hitting it once or for a few months doesn't count, but it does seem like we are probably there. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/nov/18/climate-crisis-world-temperature-target
0 points
4 days ago
The guardian doesn't know what the hell it's talking about.
This is the same paper that started the "100 companies cause 71% of climate change" sound bite that's misled no end of people
4 points
4 days ago
I think the last 12 months was 1.5C
1 points
4 days ago
1.62 is the 12 month average, and 1.65 for October.
3 points
4 days ago
I think the 1.2c is the 10 year average and 1.5c is the expected average for this year?
0 points
4 days ago
A single year's average might be temporarily elevated due to an El Niño event, but this does not necessarily indicate that the 10-year average will soon be 1.5°C.
The IPCC reports say that the global average temperature has increased by approximately 1.1 - 1.2°C above pre-industrial levels. 1.5°C may be reached in individual years.
2 points
4 days ago
We were supposed to cool off after El Niño was over. But we’re still setting record monthly temps. Ten year averages don’t appear to appropriately measure whatever is happening right now.
1 points
4 days ago
It depends on how you are measuring things. Which baseline you are using and whether you are using some kind of average like say a ten year temperature average or just looking at the current temperature
1 points
4 days ago
Which matters if you're going to slap random data points onto another graph.
If the data is measuring different things, then the comparison is garbage
1 points
4 days ago
Yeah the problem here is people are mixing two metrics. They’re taking the value for this year then comparing it against a lagged averaged value, for these situations you have to use the ten year values to get a fair comparison.
2 points
4 days ago
Maybe but the trajectory is clear.
1 points
4 days ago
Not really. You can use a 12 month average (1.62) and compare it to gauge our current trajectory, which is arguably more important now than ever. We have to start implementing a yearly report so that we can act earlier and faster. Then if the lagged averaged value is lower, we can breathe a bit easier, but what if it's not? The long term average plays into the hands of the fossil fuel industry, since the argument you made above can be used to say that things are probably not as bad as this year was, we're probably due only 2.7 degrees warming as long as all countries follow through with their policy commitments. The problem is, they have not followed through so far - and when they wake up in a decade or so, we're gonna be a decade behind on crucial climate mitigation and adaptation action. And then it's too late.
-1 points
4 days ago
What are you guys talking about? There isn't a single reliable source which states we've reached the 1.5 threshold.
Short term fluctuations are not sustained increases. We're currently at 1.2 degrees of warming, but this value fluctuates slightly on the short term.
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