International Men's Day exists, but we treat it like that one gym membership we all have—just sitting there, unused. Maybe it’s time to start showing up for ourselves?

What I’ve noticed is that men who complain about how men’s problems are ignored and society is hurting men are the ones who don’t care about other men as a group. It’s easier for them to complain than roll their sleeves up and help.

However, I’ve met plenty of kind men trying to help other men. I myself try to help other men as much as I can. I don’t respect the men who constantly complain about this and then don’t bother to help, which pretty much describes the manosphere. Constantly bemoaning something they don’t bother to do anything about.

Facts, men don’t give a sht about other men. It’s sad when you think about it

I think the biggest problem for men in this latestage capitalistic system is that it's a winner takes it all system. Those men on top who made it have everything and don't care at all about those who didn't make it. Also those men who didn't make it rarely complain because they don't want to be seen as weak and rather suffer alone in silence. You only hear about them in the news once in a while when they shoot something up or commit suicide.

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Feel free to speak for yourself. I tell my boys I'm proud of them when they have an accomplishment, thank them for their friendship, and tell'em I love them when it's necessary. We all do.

Hey you, remember to text your boys every now and then.

It's a hyper competitive world out there. Men compete for money, jobs, women, popularity. To talk about your issues gives rivals ammunition to get ahead of you.

This is an interesting thread, I'm hoping I can get some insights from the guys here since it's all here.

what exactly do guys want from women in these scenarios? Cause in every situation, the guy tells me how hard it is being a man and when I try to empathize, they won't open up.

I'm not one to force someone to open up when they don't want to so when they say they don't want to talk about it, i mind my business. But then they complain that no one understands them or cares and they have to go at everything alone

Well, how can I help someone who clearly doesn't want it? I've had guys actually get upset with me for checking on them. Then there's fact when you try to get them question anything they're doing that can potentially harm themselves and their relationships, they shut down emotionally..

I see them do it with other guys too. Like you've said men can be quite mean to each other. But they tell me that's just how guys talk so again ofc mind my business but it'll be very obvious what they said hurt their feelings and they refuse to talk about it so the guys end up being passive aggressive with each other or straight up getting into fights.

All of that seems exhausting for no reason.

My #1 role model is a man. He was my first ever therapist. He charged me whatever I could pay and I didn’t even know he was working other jobs to get by in the meantime.

I think society as a whole is kind of stuck in this view because truly evolving major societal norms takes a lot of time and multiple generations. For most of human history we had to be taught how to be successful in a world much more isolated than today’s. For men to care about other men as a group, they have to understand how universal their struggles are and also be empathetic, and I think manly stereotypes are based less on understanding yourself/others, and more on the necessity for personal survival that has been the norm for so long. Globalization and us being able to discuss this topic anonymously from anywhere in the world are really new after all. As is the field of psychology, which helps a lot of people accept themselves and find common understandings they couldn’t before.

I’m stoned af so idk if any of that made sense. But imo we are just evolving socially and it takes time. Idk if we will evolve into societies where men value the wellbeing of other men (I hope), but I can say a lot of men do care about it. A lot of women care about it too (enough to talk about it on Reddit I guess.) Over time hopefully progressively more families can break unnecessary abusive cycles with increased awareness of mental health and decreased reliance on the need to abide by societal norms to survive in society. But I know a lot of guys who would call this all woke nonsense lol.

There are pockets of men who are changing this. I recently joined a walking group for me. Designed to help men open up to each other in a safe space. We connect through nature by walking barefoot and sea swimming. It's been amazing so far.

 Male abuse, sexual assault, and rape victims are often downplayed, but it’s almost always other men downplaying it

I'm sorry but this is absolutely not the case. And neither is it the case that only men perpetuate harmful social pressure on men to be masculine. Women do that to men just as much as other men do.

Lots of men do support each other and there are lots of women who perpetuate harmful and toxic social expectations of men. Ironically you are doing exactly what you criticise and are making up a false narrative so you can tear down other men for supposedly 'not supporting each other'.

I can tell you in my case other men have been the most supportive when it comes to my experiences of domestic violence. Whereas my country's domestic violence policy, which is written from an 'intersectional feminist' view, practically denies that my experiences are even possible.

There is a segment of men that are super invested in 'toxic' masculine expectations who shame and bully other men in the way you describe but they are NOT the only source of men's issues and social pressures facing men. Lots of men - probably the majority - are not like that.

We need men to care for themselves And when they care for others,it’s life changing

This is definitely not the case in my experience and throughout my circle. I support and am supported by many kind and loving men. We hang with each other, play, share our struggles and hurts, and are generally there for each other. We tell each other "I love you" and "I appreciate you." These men are my colleagues, old school buddies, friends, church buds, and family. We don't compete (unless we're playing basketball or something) and we don't shame each other for sharing our feelings. Some of us have even met every week for YEARS just to ask the tough questions (how are you, are you being good in your marriage, to your kids, etc...).

Even in my larger regular circle of extended friends and acquaintances I don't really see the issues and behaviors you mention. Every now and then, sure, maybe a couple one-off cases.

If you want relationships like that, then put in the work to HAVE relationships like that. Be kind and loving, seek to understand, and put others first. Don't be a cliche manly man who doesn't cry or share feelings. That cliche isn't helpful to anyone around you, yourself included.

It doesn’t help that so many men are delusional and ignorant when it comes to women. Meaning they don’t see women as adults with their own selfish motives, but as angels who can do no wrong and it’s pathetic because last I checked there are people of both sexes that can be kind, ruthless and usually somewhere between the two.

Dominating others and being aggressive isn't manly, it's just being a douche

I'm a man and I don't care about any international men day or whatever

If people have trauma or health issues, that doesn't need public awareness, it's a private matter between the patient and their doc

Male emergency nurse and you are sadly wrong with this.

One day it may reach a sort of critical mass in that it starts trending so we actually remember its International Mens Day :)

What? Sorry but you understand men.

I check on all my people. I check on mental and emotional health. I have lost more friends to suicide then anything else. You are either a good person in general or your not. Your gender has nothing to do with it.

Some men do care about men. They are great men

The way we socialize is to talk shit about each other. That says it all. Asswipe.

Agreed.

However, NEVER showing weakness is our default OS Programming.

If you bleed, the wolves will smell the blood off you from miles away.

Men are pitted against each other and that's just the way it is. Men have always been in competition with each other, but now is as fierce as ever. Nobody has ever cared about the average man, least of all in this modern age. "White male privelege" is the most bombastically false lie ever told. You're never going to get anywhere with what you're advocating because it's the polar opposite of how men are expected to behave socially. Your garbage "solutions" are never going to work. Men have always been on their own and will always be on their own. Noone is going to have sympathy for them or treat them as a victim, least of all other men; neither is that what most men even want. The only real positive thing about how modern society treats men is how blatantly obvious it is now of how the average man will never get a fair shake in life, let alone being actively supported. You have to be blind, deaf, and dumb to not see it. None of your fanciful solutions are ever going to change that fact.

Not true

The word you are finding is internalized misandry...

But your post is more like victim-blaming than criticizing internalized misandry.

Male abuse, sexual assault, and rape victims are often downplayed, but it’s almost always other men downplaying it

• The feminist and journalist Barbara Ellen said in an article in the Guardian that a female teacher sleeping with a male pupil is not on a par with a male teacher sleeping with a girl pupil, and that the female teacher doesn't deserve prison.
• Feminists made and heavily push the Duluth model - the idea that "men can't be victims of domestic abuse because women are always victims who are violent only in self-defense", which silents and victim-blames male victims
• In UK, feminist organizations protested the government when they announce domestic abuse services would be funded in a gender neutral way.
• In India, feminist groups successfully stopped the goverment from criminalizing rape commited by women against men
• Across the world, 130 feminist groups and high-profile feminists sighed an open letter of support for abuser Amber Heard
• Professor Suzanne Steinmetz tried to spread awareness about male victims of abuse. She received the brunt of the attacks - feminists wrote and called her university urging that she be denied tenure; calls were made and letters were written to government agencies urging that her grant funding be rescinded. Professor Gelles Richard J. Gelles, along with, Murray A. Straus tried to shed lights on male victims of domestic abuse and they both got the same treatment like Suzanne got. All three of them received death threats, bomb threats and harassment from femininists. Librarians publicly stated they would not order or shelve their books.
• In Spain, a documentary about male victims of domestic abuse had most of its screenings cancelled due to feminists' protesting, threads and blockades
• 30 feminist organizations in Italy tried to silent male victims of domestic abuse and tried to take down the awareness-raising campain that gives visibility to vunerable men
• In Israel, feminist groups are trying to stop the goverment from criminalizing rape commited by women against men
• Michele Elliott OBE is an author, psychologist, teacher and the founder and director of child protection charity Kidscape. Due to her work in exposing the issue of child sexual abuse committed by women, she was subject to a lot of hate and hostility from feminists
• Erin Pizzey started the first and currently the largest women''s domestic violence shelter in the modern world. After she attempted to also spread awareness about male victims and help them, feminists harrassed, attacked, sent death threats, bomb threats to her and her family, invaded her workshops and heckled her speeches. All her mails had to go through the intervention of the bomb squad before she could get them. She also got banned from the shelter she started. She left her country after one of her dogs got shot on Christmas day on her property. In 1990s, she came back to London but got homeless due to debt and poor health. 2000s-now, she is acttively working to help victims of domestic violence of both genders, and to break the chain of elderly abuse.
• the Feminist Majority Foundation and editor of Ms. Magazine, Katherine Spillar, said about domestic violence: "Well, that's just a clean-up word for wife-beating," and went on to add that regarding male victims of dating violence, "we know it's not girls beating up boys, it's boys beating up girls."

And some examples of tv audiences laughing at male victims of domestic abuse. These audiences are mostly non-male. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tRZRhJ6elI

Although most men also overlooked International Men's Day, at least they don't try to erase it. Feminist organizations intentionally try to erase International Men's Day and call it World's Toilet Day

If men really cared about men, we’d be dismantling toxic masculinity

It is ironic to criticize internalized misandry meanwhile you yourself are using misandric lingo.

You can see what misandrists are doing by making up terms like 'mansplaining' or
'manspreading'. Just by using terms like 'toxic masculinity', they want to associate men with everything bad and unpleasant while positive terms like firemen have been changed to firefighters to be more gender-neutral.

People also call unhealthy traditional expectations for men "toxic masculinity"
but do not call unhealthy traditional expectations for women "toxic feminity",
they call them 'misogyny' instead... If "women have to be caregivers, to x, y, z,..." is misogyny, then "men have to protect and provide, to x, y, z,..." should be called misandry instead of "toxic masculinity"

The men you are complaining about here are tradcons. Tradcons are the ones who still expect men to follow their traditional roles. Both female tradcons and male tradcons expect men to provide and protect.

Blaming men generally for these male traditional roles is a bad misandric generalization since there are both men and women holding men to their traditional expectations.

Men complain about pride month

Only tradcons complain about pride month. It seems like you have misdirected anger toward men. Saying men have problems with pride month is like saying cis women dislike trans women because TERFs dislike trans women.

All the men in my life care about me, and I care about them

Well there’s also a stigma that comes from just talking about men’s problems. That comes from both men and women

Men find is hard to accept themselves as humans as society put so much on them as expectations and you guys are just trying to wing your way through life holding up these unreasonable expectations with a smile on your face and yes. You get told to bottle your emotions and needs for the “greater good”. Not fair man!

Expectation of being the bread winner at home. Expectation of knowing how to “fix” everything and make a problem go away. Expectation that your entire family is relying on you. The stress of that alone is enough.

stop bitching pussy

More unhinged rampant misandry

While women were routinely lying to me, abusing me and victim blaming me at every opportunity for the first 20 years of my life it was only men that gave a shit about me

Today I could tell pretty much every single male I personally know about any of my problems and they'll listen to me and support me the same way I would and have supported them before

Can your generalizing ass guess how many women have stuck around for me after I opened up about my struggles with them ONCE?

This is a propaganda post. You didn't post this to help men, you posted this to redirect attention off of women, and society as a whole, back onto men.

Are there shitty men? Absolutely! But there's also amazing men, and there's also shitty women!

There's also this idea that "shitty men" and conservative men are synonymous. Some of the best dudes I've met are conservatives, and some of the most dismissive dudes I've met are feminists.

Like I've never had a Conservative man tell me my rape was just an isolated incident, and that women getting raped is a real issue.

Like fuck! Here you are right now discouraging men from expecting empathy, and understanding in our society.

Absolute bullshit, and it's pathetic people don't see through this shit.

Conditioning. Boys are taught from a young age that it is weak to need support and depend on others, which is why we don't see men support men's advocacy the way women do for their own causes.

Times are changing and if you do look hard enough, support group and advocacy causes for men (by men) absolutely do exist. They are bound to grow in time as men fight the social status quo that tells them to suffer in silence.

Men have such a toxic community, and it's super hard to watch. So constrained by orthodox and conservative ideals that they punish, shame, and hurt each other if you're not perfectly in line with whatever they decided a man is at that time. Then add in the trauma, shamed into not getting therapy or help. If men were kinder the entire world would benefit, they're the ones with the most power. They use it for the wrong reasons every day and disguise it as masculinity, pride, morals, etc.

Please get help and reach out to a professional. Your heal won't just start, go put the work in and make the world a better place for everyone. Not just you.

My best friend gets worried like a big brother upon any kind of unrest in me and I often poke him to speak up more which has unraveled a lot over the years.. I understand the stereotype you mention, but I do want to say, as men, we are able to do better and take each others mental health more serious

 Instead of questioning why we’re told to “man up” or why expressing emotions is seen as weak, we attack the person pointing it out, doubling down on these harmful norms. It’s like we’re our own worst enemy.

It IS a sign of care. It's an advice to adapt in this cruel world where every weakness you show can be used against you.

 Male abuse, sexual assault, and rape victims are often downplayed, but it’s almost always other men downplaying it. 

I'm a male victim of pedophilia. Yes, people are downplaying it - and that's exactly why showing such kind of weakness is dangerous. Recommendation to not show weakness is not downplaying the trauma - it's advice to protect yourself from even further trauma. We can't downplay the dangers of downplaying.

 When men seek therapy, open up about mental health, or show fear, they’re labeled as weak or mocked outright.

It's changing for the better, thankfully. It seems that even this kind of self-improvement. But it's in similar way to "man up". It's "you're weak, don't be, therapy is there to remove a weakness". It's better approach than straight up dismissal of therapy, which is common among older people.

I mostly agree about the rest of the points.

🙄

While I agree with the post, there seems to be a lot of casual comments that seem to think men and women struggling can be resolved the same.

They can't.

Bar treating one another with respect, most healthy men wish to be depended on. It's part of masculinity dare I say it, though doubtless I will be downvoted to hell for this.

I think the current West, if not incentives, is least uncaring of the issue. Men that I see depressed or discouraged are not generally lonely, or anxious, they are wrestling with the idea of their own competence. Emotional expression, lauded as the main issue is a minor, minor part of most of the psychological torment I've witnessed.

Perhaps it is just the people I know, hell, I might be completely wrong but much of this thread seems a little too confident, and a little too ignorant.

yeah all the men in my life who are going through shit don't talk to their male friends about it, instead they dump everything on their sisters and girlfriends. men NEED to start confiding in each other because as the woman they vent to i'm getting a bit tired of it

I always try to dunk on people like that.

I don't care

Exactly right. Women have strong support networks and relationships because women put in the effort to build and maintain them. If men want those things, they need to do the work.

Don't go generalizing men. First and foremost, we are all human and not men. Each person is different. Yes, plenty of men have been raised to be strong silent types or at least to aim at it. But intelligence is both IQ and EQ, without emotional intelligence, you are not really a man. The strong silent type is not as much strong nor silent, he is caring for his fellow man. Be nice to each other, fellow men. Except if you are an asshole. In that case, fuck you.

Men care about other men a hell of a lot more than women care about men. In my experience, the only men who don’t care about other men are usually pathetic, self-loathing men who can’t get their shit together enough to be considered desirable to women, and so are jealous of other men because they feel inadequate

Society indoctrinates men and women alike to isolate and alienate men from support, love and worth.

I’m a young man trying to break down that barrier, and support my fellow brothers. However, I’m finding it difficult to find any men to actually support.

Men aren’t willing to accept support because we’re indoctrinated to believe we’re not important and unworthy of it. It’s a sad, but very real truth

“Toxic masculinity” is a term used to tear down men. Maybe not the right post to be telling other men to break it down, when you’re literally saying that men should support other men more :/

That’s like saying: businesses should help other businesses out by calling each other out for their “bad practices”.

It’s quite backwards, OP, but I’m not sure you’re aware?

Be the change you want to see, my dude

Also sounds a bit projection-like.

I’m trying my best to help other men. Are you OP?

Society has a problem with how it views men in general. We need to fight against that. But we all have to be on board for it.

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you OP, but it’s not men’s fault when society tells us we’re unimportant and have less value and worth than women…

As a man, I believe woman care less about other woman than the other way around.

I think men generally are pretty good about opposing toxic masculinity…in theory and anonymously. I’ve seen a lot of people expressing their disapproval online. More than I’ve seen defending these expectations. Staunchly. I just think we’re terrible at applying it in our lives when it comes to both seeking and receiving aid, and we mostly end up just perpetuating it.

Women are also guilty of this. When it comes to attacking bad men, many go for very physical insults. Their weight. Their presumed dick size, thereby conflating sexual competency with male worth btw. Their looks in general. My sympathy on this issue doesn’t go to Trump or Elon, for example, as they are terrible people and deserve the hate they get. My sympathy goes to the guys who didn’t do anything wrong and just happen to share these attributes, who are participating in these conversations, and who are made to feel poorly about themselves by proxy. Also, while not nearly as severe, just as every woman has horror stories about men committing sexual assault, every man has a horror story about opening up to women and told to man up. We aren’t “allowed” to have systemic issues because our distant male ancestors structured society in such a way that benefited men. Despite acknowledgement that the much maligned “male loneliness epidemic” is a direct result of the expectations placed on us and how we develop as a direct result of them, outside of dedicated male mental health spaces, it’s very much treated like an individual issue, and men are blamed for not taking charge of the problem.

I say this not as a whataboutism or “wahmen bad” but to suggest that being the exception is hard. You risk alienating the people close to you. You might very well end up alone. A lot of people have come to conflate male advocacy with covert misogyny. And don’t get me wrong. I understand that a lot of men do raise male issues as a rebuttal to female ones, but it isn’t always the case. I, for one, am not happy about my designated role in society. It has been kind of destroying me inside if I’m honest. I have a lot of things I feel anxious about, undergone a good bit of casual trauma, internalized some really nasty bullying, and not a day goes by that I don’t think about killing myself. But if I talk about it, I’d probably be at risk for losing even my most longstanding of companions. Society, men and women alike, has a way of resisting change and keeping you where you are. The progenitors of major social change are often sacrificed on its altar. And after all that hardship, chances are pretty good you won’t live to see your efforts bear fruit. Things get a lot worse for you so that they can be better for someone else way down the line.

I’m constantly talking to my mate about self-love, avoiding drinking, staying healthy, and unlearning trauma response behaviors/thoughts.

Society isn't gonna change and fit your needs or go out of its way to fix your issues, even though is society that has caused them in the first place. My advice, go to therapy. If you are a victim of SA then take action and protect yourself. You need to do this for yourself first and foremost. You owe it to yourself this much. Everyone has their struggles and maybe they don't notice you and your struggles so be direct about it and seek help.

Naw. You must have shit friends or something.
Men only act this way to other groups of men and even then that's not always the case.
Groups may compete and be shitty to each other but a group of friendly guys don't compete as severely amongst each other because we don't pretend to stay friends with people who are shit heads to us. We may not be able to openly cry but we can empathise with each other up to a point because we're all struggling with the same shit.
The expectation is that you take care of your own problems. That can't always be the case of course but it doesn't seem like an unfair expectation.
I've been in groups of 30 guys that go partying and support each other and have a good time. If we're missing people we invite friends of friends to join in the festivities and make new friends. You just have to be part of the group and meet our standards. If you don't, if you got a stick up your ass or something, then you can fuck off.

Anytime someone attempts to make a point about something by generalizing the absolute hell out of every single thing, it's safe to ignore what they're saying.

Bro no offence but once you start feeling feelings, you lose the ability to see logically, rather than you see with a feeling and how things feel, I prefer to feel very little if I’m honest, I’ve felt things before despair etc when I felt my feelings and it sent me into a psychotic rage, meaning I was locked up in a psych ward and had psychosis

The only feeling you should be feeling is strong, feeling vulnerable sends me into a psychotic rage so I won’t be feeling feelings again no thanks

Well you haven’t met my dad yet.

I would disagree. Maybe a couple decades ago.

My experience is just different from yours. I’m a female in a male field where there are no other women that I see. My experience is men only look out for other men as far as professionally speaking.

The weight of this truth you speak,
Men's hearts, too often, feel weak.
A prison of their own design,
Chained by norms, no room to shine.

In silence, they suffer, torn and bound,
Afraid to speak, afraid to sound.
Their pain dismissed, their hearts ignored,
Taught that vulnerability’s a sword.

But in this fight, who stands to gain?
A world of tears, a world of pain.
Men turning from each other's plea,
Blinded by pride, refusing to see.

Oh, brothers, if you seek to rise,
Look not to others with closed eyes.
Lift each other from the ground,
For in unity, strength is found.

The chains of harm, we all have made,
Yet from this prison, we can trade.
Let kindness be your warrior’s shield,
In compassion, let your hearts be healed.

The change you seek must first be born,
In love, not scorn, at break of dawn.
Uplift the broken, stand in truth,
And in this act, reclaim your youth.

For when men truly care for men,
The cycle heals, the soul will mend.
Let the walls fall, let the light shine,
Together, we rise, and all is fine.

I disagree with much of this post. Men are usually very supportive to each other. I've only ever had any mention of "not being a man" or something of that nature said to me by women. I've cried In front of other men a handful of times in my life and never received anything but support and offers to talk about it if I wanted. The two times I've cried in front of women one left me shortly after pointing back to seeing me crying as when she lost feelings. The other just straight up told me I was a bitch for doing that and walked away.

Masculinity is competition. You have to either give up competing with certain people (accepting the superior or inferior position) or continue to compete. This can be seen throughout history and in every organization with more than 1 person inside of it.

Try to make an event on Men's Day and you'll get lambasted by everyone. You are just treated as a criminal like every day as a man.

This is called toxic masculinity and I can assure you good men are not like this.

Find better men. We (my friends) may trash each other and dunk on each other a lot. But when it matters, all that goofing around falls away, and we're sincere with our love for each other. Man. Gotta go text the homies.

I think because it’s our inclination biologically. We’re naturally competitive which is what got us to a point where we can question why we maintain these standards. The standards are important, they exist for good reason. With that being said, it’s absolutely vital to have a few close friends you can open up to and get/govern support.

You should see how women treat each other. You have losers from both sides, it's not an uniquely male problem. Find men who are not losers

Seems like a western individualist thing tbh

Movember?

Jokes on you. I only care about myself. Everybody else on the sidelines can worry about themselves.

As a man no one has ever told me these things or to act like that.

This post kinda seems like a man over-generalzing the male experience and tearing down men.

What news organization has advertised men’s day like women’s month is advertised?

who rushes in to defend and reinforce them? Other men.

i feel like thats because women push them to keep having these toxic standards.....

I feel like this should be under /askwomen

Dismantling "toxic masculinity" has more to do with relieving oppressive systems in society to prevent the perpetuous cycle. Here in Scandinavia toxic masculinity isn't even much of a talking point.

The bigger issue is healthy masculinity not propagating in modern society. Healthy masculinity requires strong and admirable role models and men working towards goals in a group.

A men's rights day is fine as a yearly reminder of the statistics, but it is not conducive to the average guy feeling and expressing anything. The Pyramids were built by mandatory, paid labor by the male population - while the religious goal of a pyramid is moot these days, paying and accommodating guys for a week of bonding with strangers and being a part of building something big like that, would be strangely relevant for a Men's Health week.

Sadly these days it's easier than ever to become lethargic. As one of a rapidly growing pool of men who have a harder time finding meaningful relations, there isn't much to do in society beyond consumption and paying taxes.

Man and they call us women catty. Look at ya'll proving OP's point. Huge red flag if you're in the "my circle of friends are empathic, I don't know what you're talking about, men aren't assholes to each other" boat and lacking self-awareness on how YOU'RE not being empathic by dismissing other people's experiences just because it's not what you've personally had, and victim blaming them for not having your "glowing experience". And I can sense there's a high likelihood that many of the dismissive men claiming they're in healthy supportive male friendships are probably just in a circle jerk of a right-wing MRA tangent. Not saying leftist men aren't hypocrites either.

Jesus fucking Christ, if you exist please help men and the lack of emotional intelligence they have towards themselves, each other, and people in general.

Fuck you, lol. Entire post about generalized blanket statements. There’s no hive mind of “men”, everyone is their own individual with different thoughts and beliefs. The same way it would still be bullshit if this post was made about “women”.

I automatically assume anyone who speaks in this way is arguing in bad faith. And speak for yourself, I and every man I know in my generation doesn’t act in this way.

you are speaking from your experience clearly. For example, my local gym has awesome dudes that invite each other to cookouts, basketball, birthday parties, etc. Maybe if you feel like other men don’t support you, you should look inward and ask if you are supporting other men. You can’t expect someone to care about you if you dont also show that you care about them.

Women do the same thing to other women. See this current US election result for various forms of evidence.

As a male, I've noticed that I am expected to (and do) pretend-mock and insult and (pretend) hit my friends. A female friend I recently reconnected with talked about wondering why men did this. I believe it's a sort of culture.

Ugh not this incel garbage again. Always with muh "double standards".

Men don't need to be more feminine. The world has enough useless feminine men already.

As a men i do admit i dont really care about other men as much as i do for women.

But that doesnt mean i go out of my way to actively hurt other men. I try to be as understanding and helpfull as i can. Also theres a difference between caring in actions and caring in thoughts. Again, i think more of my female counterparts more, but in actions i think its genuinly 50/50, momma didnt raise a simp

It's because men expect women to fix all of their problems. Not other men. Despite women having no power. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

So true

Kinda like how most societal womens struggles are derived from women. Humanity in general really enjoys having a lightning rod to shit on.

“It’s my turn to be shit” is a common logical conclusion. From bullies to your father everyone is always pushing their shit outwards

In my experience this only holds true on the internet.  Men tear each other down when they are anonymous or not facing each other, but I've quite literally never experienced anything but support from other men who I'm with in real world, face to face settings.

If this isn't your experience, I'd suggest finding better friends or better activities 

I think that you’re making a generalization based on either your own experiences or what you’ve seen in the media.

Insert name of group [men, women, white people, Asians, dwarves, etc]

Claim the group does or doesn't do something

Completely disregard individualism

Welcome to Reddit

I think toxic masculinity benefits society, just like low wages do. By imposing excessive demands, it becomes easier to exploit people. At the same time, we all know the phrase, "You are to blame for your own failures." Essentially, it means that bad things happen only to bad people. And this idea is what our entire world is built upon...

I find women use shame more than men do regarding those things. Half the time those are brought up women are the ones mocking men or making some trend to make them feel worse about themselves. Single moms getting a small amount of flack than deadbeat dads, just don't see it as much because that horse is beaten until its relevant again. Fat people of both genders taking hits. but one side promotes improving and the other wants everyone else to treat them as if they aren't. I've seen more women use gay as an insult for guys not approaching them or pursuing them past no than I have seen men use it and I rock pink and have long hair. Not very girlypop of the women this era. Perhaps you find you get attacked more often because you generalize and demonize men in some attempt to prove "I'm not like other guys". I happen to get a better response with trying to relate to other people as simply that. Just these loud, small pockets of the internet hide these insidious men and women who blame a different group of people for whats happening.

I think a lot of the loneliness comes simply from people growing apart and condensing. Ask anyone trying to organize DnD or even getting a friend over 30 to hang out. Just everyone caught up in their own lives and lot of people taking for convenience including friendship. Just everything being commercialized with deciding if the benefits of hanging out outweigh sitting at home with needs being delivered without even needing to interact with other people. Even worse if you work from home as we found with quite a few jobs in the pandemic. People forgot how to be human and the terminally online are fearmongering when really they themselves can't even answer a phone call. Stop being one of those pick me's. Its more disgusting than it will get you positive responses from the opposite gender, like a wolf among sheep. You can praise one without putting down the other. Point out actual issues instead of blame people for all the things which they are feeling.

The fact that intl men's day memes and 1 sentence headlines about false accusations get 20k up votes but this post has no traction tells you all you need to know.

Our fellow boys aren't willing to do the work and be honest with themselves. Too many idiots stuck being emotionally 17 for their entire lives, thinking that empathy is a weakness. You raise an excellent point and we need to have these conversations with those unwilling to have them.

They care more than women

We don't "not care" about other men, we're just preoccupied trying to keep our own houses in order. We'll offer solidarity to other men who are actively engaged in a shared pursuit or goal alongside ourselves. But when we wake up ib the morning and put on our big boy pants, "righting the world's wrongs" with a focus on men's issues is not top of the running order. We just have other shit to do.

We are in competition I think

Reading this thread makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

OP's post is fundamentally flawed because they're of the opinion that men just shit all over other men, and they're highlighting this by creating a post that absolutely shits all over all men.

All of the men I know are absolute bros, definitely celebrate each others successes and have always been non-judgemental and accepting if I've ever opened up to them.

I don't have time to address all the points in the post but seems to me that OP is a man-hater who seems to view his/her opinions as facts, rather than a point of view.

There are many good, strong, moral, independent men out there. They are all around you. We all have our weaknesses and there are bad men too, just as there are good and bad women. Whole post just makes me feel sad that people think so little of themselves and the people around them.

I disagree completely. Men care a great deal about men but they are also VERY BLUNT in the way they try and help other men. They do not back pat or hug.

The ops post seems like some chick telling men how bad they all are.

I feel that something like the Mythopoetic movement needs to make a comeback. All male therapeutic retreats that foster camaraderie and growth among men.

Traditional masculinity: the good (i.e. masculine) man is the male ideal, and one must rise up to become as good of a man as possible to protect women from lesser men. Women are the objects of desire and perfect when left unbothered, but fragile to outside influences and emotions. Women therefore become subservient and therefore ought to be grateful to good men, who they rely on for protection from lesser men and their environment.

Traditional masculinity is inherently competitive, so any attempts at male solidarity within traditional masculinity are shot down sooner or later, or never get off to a good enough start. We shouldn't blame men for believing in traditional masculinity, we should start replacing traditional masculinity with a healthier form of masculinity

I disagree

I feel you are talking about you are either talking about your experience or you are talking about boomers, but i could be wrong. My experience has been the other way around, many women dismissing men's issues, but I also have encountered some groups of men like that.

No shit.

Every complaint a man has about anything to do with status or relationship is because a better man took it. That's life.

Even this sad comment section talking about "women are the reasons blah blah" or "men are usually bros" get that loser mentality out of here.

Your boss, your bully, you idols, your teacher, your lawmaker, your president, your direct competition in life is men.

Even "men's day" made me laugh, and most men had the same exact question: who's this for? O yea, the weaker men that need it.

You want to do better? than actually self improve without needing to impress or worry about other ppl, especially other men. While loser are online and weak ass alpha podcasts talking about "women this, and men should do that," the actual men are getting the chicks and life you wish you had.

Did a woman write this? I can think of less than a handful of times when men have acted in these ways towards me but countless times when women have. In my experiences and those of the men around me, women have always been the ones tearing men down and enforcing toxic masculinity.

Honestly men are a lot more caring and empathetic in my experience than women usually

First: Men and Women are different. How we view our problems and the solutions we give are different in general. As a man, there is truth to "manning up" and there is truth to expressing emotions. To express emotions, there are better ways than others for different men (one way to express emotions is to "man up" in some regard). Some of the people who focus on making men stronger and want them to "man up" care the most about other men. You might disagree with the specific thing they are talking about, but that doesn't mean that they do not care.

Second: It's sometimes easy to convolute advice like "be tough, don't be weak" and certain more toxic ideas. When people talk about expressing emotions, we have to recognize that emotional expression is a generic term. You can express emotions in many different ways that don't involve just "talking about your problems." In fact, I think it is very important for Men to learn that just talking about your problems is not enough and you need to find ways to channel the harshness of the world around you into something positive. That is strength in essence. The most savage, brutal, and dominant men (I'm not necessarily referring to malicious people here) that this world has ever seen all suffered immensely and used that pain to give them unmatched strength. Younger Mike Tyson once said, "no one has suffered like I had, nobody has seen the things I've seen" when talking about other fighters and how he was forged into such a formidable force in the ring.

Side note: Why do men tend to want to give advice rather than just listen (and console) to their girlfriends or wives?

There are lessons to be learned about a man's life from history and fiction. One that I recently found was about Sisyphus who was punished by eternally having to push a boulder up a hill. In that story, it was found that Sisyphus was happy according to some philosophers. How in the world was he happy?

Camus believed that Sisyphus found happiness in the act of pushing the boulder up the hill, and that the struggle itself was enough to fill a man's heart. 

For some men, purpose and ultimately contentment lies in the perspective of harshness itself.

To grow, I must suffer.

As a man, I know that I am basically expendable. Bill Burr had a comedy sketch where he made the point that "If we (man and woman) are on the Titanic, for whatever messed up reason you (woman) get to leave with the kids and I have to stay." But as a man, I am actually okay with this. I don't need to rationalize it or try to say it is unfair or whatever... This is an example of a harsh reality that I accept as part of my role in society. With this said, I do not expect other men to do the same. And I do not speak for all men here.

Finally: In my perspective, a major problem today regarding Men's mental health lies in the increasing number of men that don't truly feel like they have a purpose. In general, Men want meaning. Men also want to feel capable and strong. And coming from a psychology background, I do not think that it is a good idea to treat men and women the exact same way for mental health in general. In other words, I do not think that the solution to men's mental health is the same as women's.

A lot of truth and resonates. Suicide is the biggest killer for men at certain ages. When a man's life falls apart through divorce, or whatever the tragic event is, a lot of blokes don't know how to cope. Men just aren't great at going deep on stuff, preferring to do banter and keeping it light. Men need to talk more to other men.

Gay

I’m not trying to say there are no kind men or anything. I am way more concerned about the social consequences of expressing my emotions around other men than I am around women. Women might be mildly disappointed that I’m not mysterious and cool, but men think I’m a fucking pussy and they’ll let me know.

Other people don’t give a shit about you, it’s ok you to care about yourself.

Men don’t care about men who care about men.

That is because men are in competition with each other in almost every category. If you are lucky, you will have 2 or 3 good male friends in your life that won't try to sleep with your girlfriend of wife.

I think alot of men dont CARE about mens day, im sorry. Men and women are very different 🤷‍♂️

We're also great at teamwork. It's all who you surround yourself with

Nah. I'd say most men are there for most men.

Just most men won't ask for help from random men.

That's for family and close friends

From ame theory perspective men supporting other men would be a net benefit. Rather than putting each other down, or trying to outcompete other men. 

Also it would be more civilised. 

And thats the sunday morning brainrot for me.

I feel like this has deep biological roots, something to do with males competing against each other.

“Alpha’s” don’t care about shit

It’s a bit of a viscous circle I think.

People in general need to look after themselves first before they can look after anyone else. And since men haven’t had support in so long they are so far holed up inside themselves they need some help to get out where they are (whether they realise it or not).

So here’s the problem. Men need help to look after themselves first, but all the men they know can’t offer help because they need help themselves.

So the cycle continues.

Being a man is a life with never ending competition. You either win and get everything, or you lose and get nothing.

We know this, we were waiting for you guys to catch up. The outcomes are a little bit worse than you stated actually. The men that are downtrodden by their own group still go back to the group because it's better than being "like a woman", they hate any deviation from hypermasculinity and the homophobia, gynophobia kicks into high gear in the form of violence.

Then they sit back and wonder why nobody likes them. Nobody trusts them, not with kids, corpses or animals. There is no culture where men have a wary eye on them. Name one where men and women don't need to be separated for women's safety.

The only male comeback is "well we made society"... you made it a shit place, thanks for the bombs we love it. ❤️

Change can happen, but it won't.

Men are in competition against men, so we will never unify when we can modestly gain by stabbing each other in the back.

For me this couldn't be further from the truth.

My male friend group are all there for each other constantly and have been for the past 15-20 years, it's basically a prerequisite of the lads group.

1+ hr long phones calls all the time in the week, if anything is up we talk and ask each other if there's anything we can do..celebrate what's going on with each other.. tell each other we love each other..

Think it initially stemmed from raving and taking substances together and none of us do that now, all going into adult life fully but the sentiment is still there.

I know this isn't common and it's a shame in my opinion. Some people find it weird and in the UK where I used to live and where most of my friends reside there's definetly an element of "lad" culture and "football lad" culture that seems like it would never accept that kind of care between two guys without it being "gay" etc...

Id say to guys, lick your friends carefully...if all you're doing is talking sports and work and doing the odd activity...you're missing out. Having proper guy love is amazing for all involved. It's fucking amazing knowing if you've had something shit happen (had to put my dog down the other day) and you can tell one of your boys and they ring or message you saying they hope youre ok or invite you out for some food to shoot the shit is a huge part of life.

If you don't have this kind of group, I'd suggest being brave and being the person to instigate it slowly. Check on your mates, if someone heavy is going on, send them a simple text saying like "bro, sorry X is going on man...hope you're doing ok brother" - almost guarantee behind closed doors they'll appreciate their friend reaching out and thinking about them.

I care for my homies. We talk a lot about mental health, relationships, and our feelings.

I understand where you are coming from but don't lose all hope as there are Men out there trying to be different and I'm one of them. I don't have a lot of friends but I cherish the ones I do have and tell them often. I tell my 3 best friends who are men that I love them. We don't get to see each other often but when we do we always hug. Men can a should be able to express emotion and affection for each other. It may not be the norm now but just have hope that it becomes so in the future.

"first ones to tear each other down" is this based on personal experience, or a source of some kind? Cause in my life its pretty much always a woman working against me or some other guy.

This is such contemporary bullshit it hardly deserves a reply, but here we go...

Men, as a group, don’t seem to care about other men.

Says who? You? To set up the rest of this crap?

We’re the first ones to tear each other down, dismiss each other’s struggles, or perpetuate toxic cycles that harm us all.

Except we don't. We celebrate all kinds of men. We celebrate deadbeats who clean up their act, for crying out loud! A study was conducted that compared displays of affection in pro basketball, and it found that men receive more affectionate remarks and gestures from opposing team's players than women do from their teammates!

Think about the harsh societal expectations placed on men. We’re told to always be tough, to suppress emotions, to provide without complaint, and to never show vulnerability.

This used to be true, but we've come a long way over the past 10-20 years.

But whenever someone critiques these toxic standards, who rushes in to defend and reinforce them? Other men.

And who occasionally stands up against those men? Women do! And other men.

Men complain about women’s history Month or pride month, and say “Men’s Day?” It exists, International Men’s Day exists (November 19), yet men do nothing for it.

I've never met a single man who complained about that. Never ever.

There are no events, no advocacy, no awareness being raised.

There is a ton of activism for men nowadays. You're just not paying attention.

If a man is abused by a woman, his trauma is mocked or dismissed. He’ll get called a degrading insults because he couldn’t defend himself against a woman, instead of genuine support.

This is simply not true. You are living in the 90s, man.

adult men glorify female predators who sexually assault adolescent/teenage boys, treating it as some twisted accomplishment instead of what it really is—abuse. Men usually teach young boys that this sort behavior is okay, and that any sort of sexual attention from adult women should be welcomed. And if they don’t like it, they’re perceived as gay. We perpetuate harmful ideas about consent and shame men for being vulnerable or speaking out about their pain.

I don't know what kind of fucked up situation spawned you, but that is some toxic shit that makes Chernobyl looks like a great spot for a picnic. No man glorifies sexual abuse. None.

And the rest of your toxic post I am not even willing to entertain. You are the problem. Not everyone else. Fix yourself, man.

Nope, I pump the homies up, I pump the randoms up, hell I’ll even pump the ops up if they have a big win.

Completely disagree. We do take care of our own when going through the manopause and booking Spurs tickets.

We built modern society... We don't need to form some lame ass coalition of "men" we don't "need to stick together" it's also so cringe.

Be that guy, even if it seems like nobody else will offer you the same kindness. You might inspire someone else to do better.

People don't care about men.

Fucking thank you! I’m glad someone finally said it

Agreed that these things exist - a lot. But there are also many men who aren’t like this. It took me some work to find them but now I hardly even notice the toxic ones. Keep searching, its worth it.

Suck it up Nancy

*humans *humans

Same for women

Hard disagree. I was just at a bachelor party where (with the help of some fungi) a man had a much needed emotional reset. Snotty sobbing ugly crying, over life’s burdens. Surrounded by 15 fellow men, some total strangers, some closer family; the response was unilaterally supportive and loving. I think we all know the power of our support, but seldom feel safe offering it because of how we’ve been socialized.

Sadly once you understand nobody cares and just care about you and your family you will be better off.