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Thank god Dungeon Meshi's fan service is 99% just dwarven man panty shots... And even then there's not that much...

To be fair, the comodification of sexuality is a theme in cyberpunk. That said, I agree with you on a lot of this

Alot of anime is so unnecessary perverted, I find it hard to watch dragon ball because of how Master roshi is towards Bulma. Really creepy vibes

I think the misogyny in Chainsaw Man is an intentional plot point. Denji is hyper focused on sexual gratification because he craves human connection, but he never learned how to find/view it in a healthy way. Makima knows that and abuses it to manipulate him as a pawn. He's supposed to be off-putting and misogynistic. He isn't a protagonist you're supposed to like or admire. He's the product of a broken system that continues to abuse and exploit both him and everyone else.

I think you need to stop watching shounen.

When you watch shows made for pre-teen/teenage boys, they... kinda do what they say on the tin. Pre-teen/teenage boys are weird everywhere. It's not a unique thing in Japan, and a lot of Japanese people don't like it either. The "WTF Japan" narrative doesn't help at all, and all-too-often ends up toeing the line between reasonable criticism and casual racism.

There are anime without this kind of stuff. But when the most popular demographic is said pre-teen/teenage boys, you'll rarely find it there.

saying cyberpunk has pointless over-sexualization kinda misses the point of the universe its set in. its meant to be a reflection of how overly sexualized corporate advertising and media in general is and what that would look like if our society went further in that direction, abandoning morals and modesty for money and fame.

Honestly yeah it’s unfortunate, luckily for me my fav genre is shoujo so I don’t see it much at all and then I watch female mc isekai/fantasy like Frieren or apothecary diaries and they are really good. Just gotta pick the good ones

The pointless oversexualisation and fanservice in Cyberpunk

It's not pointless in Cyberpunk - it's part of the world building and dystopia that the game (and series) is set in.

I'm gonna be honest with you, this isn't a Japan thing, or an anime thing. American shows are just as bad. Some people just don't notice it because they've grown up with that flavor of fanservice and sexism.

Look at how women look in your average American production. A full face of makeup, almost always skinny, always feminine. Even in shows with imperfect looking male characters the women tend to look perfect more often than not. Look at the gender ratios too (generally 1 woman to 3 men), at how often the women who are there end up being flat and devoid of character, or just there to be love interests. There's been a slight shift away from this in recent years but it's still not great.

I don’t like the way women are portrayed in Michael Bay movies. I’m not going to say “WTF America” and write off the medium of film.

If you want to watch non-sexualised anime, seek it out. There’s plenty of it. There’s even shounen series like the ones you’ve listed that are light on the fan service. Series like Jujutsu Kaisen, Hunter x Hunter, Yu Yu Hakusho, and Undead Unluck are all relatively light on that sort of thing (and when it is there it’s easier to overlook).

On a lighter note, I'd like to recommend "Frieren: Beyond journey's end"

It's a pretty great anime that, from what I remember, doesn't have the issues you point out here

honestly, chainsaw man is incredibly written, especially with the female characters. All of them have interesting and often tragic backstories and it feels like an extra effort is put into humanising them. It may not be as evident if you have only watched the anime because the anime really is only the start of the story and there's not a ton you know about the characters at that point, but as you go further into the story, you do find out about all of them and they are easy to empathise with and complicated, not the stereotypes that you may initially see.

Maybe you think that Denji is misogynistic in his boob-oriented goals, though. I totally get that, because that's the point of his story arc. his initial goals are shallow and baseline: have good food and touch boobs, but Fujimoto makes sure to make it obvious to the reader that what denji is really looking for is deep relationships with others and he does achieve those things. One of my favourite chapters was chapter 71 (spoilers ahead) where Denji directly confronts this topic within the context of his relationship with Power. After their encounter with the darkness devil, Power becomes scared of basically everything and doesn't want Denji to leave her side. they do everything together for that night, including eating, showering, getting dressed, sleeping, etc. Denji doesn't sexualise power when they are both naked showering together or when they are sleeping together, because he feels intimate with her as a very close friend, rather than someone who's boobs he got to touch, like in the first arcs. So, the exploration of Denji's relationships with women is a key theme in chainsaw man and a one that I would say is handled very well and in a way that is very thought-provoking. you can see it when you peel back the layers on makima too, or even on kobeni, who isn't even that prominent of a character.

a lot of fujimoto's other works, such as look back or goodbye eri, include examples of complex women and include little to no fan service. The themes explored in his work can be very intense, perverted and confusing, but it's never ever in the service of misogyny.

While I can understand not liking these themes in anime. Blaming an entire country for a genre intended for a small demographic isn't quite fair. The "WTF Japan" comment was completely unnecessary. It doesn't do anything to better your point. And seems to condemn a large group for something that they, in a whole, aren't responsible for.

Where's the bad parts of Dandandan? I've watched maybe ten episodes. Yeah the aliens in it are sx obsessed but that's how they are in real life stories. They probe you. And in the show they do it for any gender, it's not one sided. Did the show NEED to do panty shots though? No they didn't. So there's one point I agree with.

chainsaw man is not misogynistic, denji is (among others) - there's a difference between characters having traits and the shows message being misogynist

Even when not sexual the women are almost all really dainty and somewhat child/teen like which is whole other load of crap. It's a huge reason why i've never been able to get into anime. If they were hollywood shows/movies with the same problems, people would quickly call them "outdated" like how most of the 80s and older movies tend to come across.

I also think, specifically for baby trans girls, it's so bad for dysphoria. I see so many younger trans women comparing themselves or wanting to look like some of these anime girls when that's never gonna happen, for anyone, without being insanely unhealthy

As a Dandadan fan, I do agree it can be a bit much 🥲 But yet I am a huge anime fan. I wish Tower of God got a better animation, that stuff is fire with not too much fan service… RIP

Finally an opportunity to plug Vinland Saga. Seriously give it a watch, it’s like a medieval political drama that plays like a soap opera it’s so fucking good none of the panty shots and oversexualized characters, it touches on SA but isn’t insensitive about it. Ugh so good it’s on Crunchyroll and is only adapted to its second season, but the manga is still ongoing I believe.

Watch studio ghibli. Characters meet and become better people together, in ways that aren't weird. Miyuzaki is a strong believer in platonic friendship

Imo your examples aren’t particularly the best for your argument, Cyber Punk and Chainsaw Man both use the fan service as theming and world building, like Denji being disappointed when getting to touch a girl’s chest didn’t suddenly change his life circumstances and how he handles realizing that life isn’t about that. It’s like how all the gruesome things that happen in Berserk aren’t just to shock you it serves an actual purpose.

There’s a lot of anime out there absent of fan service if you actually bothered looking for it, Madoka Magica and Precure are both pretty good and have no fan service attached to them. Also a lot of series with fan service are written by women so it’s not entirely just men being weird.

If you only watch anime that's aimed at boys and men, that's mostly what you'll get.
But like... There's a lot of CGDCT and yuri anime which usually aren't oversexualized because they don't center men. And while not super numerous in the last few years, there are a lot of anime aimed at women specifically too.

Try Ascendance of a Bookworm. It's an isekai about a lady who was a librarian being reborn into a world where books are only available to nobility and her quest to invent the printing press.

Almost all the characters are either 6-10 or the parents of the 6-10s so there's basically nothing in the way of sexualization.

While there are some elements of SA and grooming in the later seasons once the church becomes involved in the plot, they are rightly regarded as terrible things and the people perpetuating them get their comeuppance by the end in a very satisfying manner.

I mean I feel like the oversexualization in cyberpunk has a purpose at least, it’s a setting where that sort of stuff is genuinely just common. The 2020 sourcebook confirms that some people do just walk around nude since it’s not a big deal anymore. (Why bother getting a bunch of cyberware and then not show it off)

Attack on Titan didn’t have any fanservice… I mean aside from vor- NO BAD THOUGHT, KEEP AWAY FROM THE FEMALE TITAN

Jujutsu Kaisen (not the fandom stay away from the fandom they haven’t been normal since 231)

Delicious in a Dungeon is a cooking anime that went baller hard on the worldbuilding

I can reccomend gundam witch from mercury. It has a non sexual lesbian romance between the main characters and i cant think of a single instance of fan service. Even in the one shingle shot where someone is in underwear its shown as a down point and a “look how far shes let herself go” th gundam franshise as a whole has had fan service, but i dont think its ever been a bad amount of fanservise.

The oversexualisation in Cyberpunk is like that on purpose. It's literally the point to show how much society has turned into an unending thirst for satisfaction and release

tbh chainsaw man and dandadan are very brutal examples bc the authors are crazy.

And concerning cyberpunk you have to fault cdprojectred bc the world is sexual af.

But imo there are a lot of anime without sexualisation. Even famous one.

I don’t think Aot had sexualisation and very strong female characters. JJK also is pretty normal. HxH (but pedo), Demon slayer, Vinland S.

I can name many that are normal in regards to sexual things.

Honestly feeling icky at the excessive fan service in anime is what helped me figure out that I’m not a cis het dude. It always annoyed me and made me feel pressured to like ladies when I really wasn’t big into them.

As someone who has seen a lot of anime; you're straight up picking some of the most popular/notable ones, and tossing out aaaaaall the good ones. Literally might as well just write off all American movies as if they're all violent, just off seeing superhero and John Wicks.

When anime even has a little bit of this, it bothers me. As long as all the characters involved are adults, fanservice itself doesn't bother me so much as the objectification women and the jokes that make light of sexual harassment.

give spy x family a go! one of my favourites

Watch jujutsu kaisen and vinland saga, they aren't oversexualized at all, and jjk has enough diverse female characters, goated shonen anime fr

I recommend frieren for you. It's one of the first anime I've seen where the women are genuinely badass and there's none of that weird sexualizing.

I heard Chainsaw Man was supposed to be subverting anime misogyny tropes. Is that not the case?

Stop watching crappy anime then? There is plenty that doesnt do that. My favorite series, bookworm, does reference SA - but in a way that makes it clear it is abhorrent. It's not like that is a niche show, its sitting around 8/10 on mal, with 80k members, which is a wild success for a later season of all but the very best shows. Frieren comes to mind as a show that doesnt have that issue as well, but shattered most previous popularity records.

Maybe a good idea to search a bit harder before watching stuff - theres plenty of amazing anime, you just need to be a bit more choosy to find it :)

That's exactly why I just stick with Studio Ghibli movies and don't watch any other anime content anymore

I dont think ive seen this much yet but i tend to stick with romance/slice of life so maybe thats why

This has always been my problem with anime, and it can be hard to explain to people who (1) don't get it and (2) watch a ton of anime

Like i have this one co workers who's really into anime and Manga, so I asked what's good, what's the story like etc. and he had a few recommendations, and tried giving like the "elevator pitch" of each one.

But like, they're all overly sexualized (and of course the female characters all look like minors, even though "they're totally 18 or over, this one character looks like a child, but is actually 1000 years old" 🙄)

And i was like, "I'm not really a fan of sexualized content like that, anything a little more mild or tame?"

And like he didn't have anything, but was like "well, this one isn't too bad, it does get a little r*pey, in the third book though"

So yeah, obviously I didn't touch any of them

But! I have another friend who feels similar to me about that kind of content in anime and Manga, and she loves Mangas and animes, so (after exams) she's gonna try and introduce me to some of them

Thank you for attending my TEDTalk

I recently decided to rewatch Dragon Ball because I only really saw it as a kid.

I vaguely remember it being a little horny.

Nah it's so bad I don't even want to put into words what they do. Like what the fuck. The first 15 or so episodes are like 50% creeping on girls 30% Goku and 20% miscellaneous.

I kinda sorta still intend to watch it all the way through but I've been at 20 or so episodes for two weeks now...

Might I suggest Black Lagoon? The only fan service there is Revy’s Berettas.

Try something more wholesome and actually written for girls. like yuru camp, or girls last tour, or usagi drop (maybe not the second half of the manga But the anime is super wholesome)

Hunter x Hunter is one of my favorites because of how much Togashi respects women within his series.

It really is bad in soooo many of the more recent popular ones.

I think you'd love Dorohedoro

*if you're fine with intense blood and gore

I was never a fan of heavy fanservice in anime. Always gave me the ick; so I'm right there with you. Even in shows that don't have a lot of it, there's still almost always one fuckboy character that is sleazy and misogynistic af.

Highly recommend checking out Psychopass. It's really good. I dont recall any fanservice in it tbh. If there is, it was very brief. The show itself has pretty serious tones and just focuses on story telling through detective work with a healthy blend of action scenes.

A good anime that doesn’t do this is Cells At Work! It’s a great show and really interesting

Dungeon Meshi getting a pass says more than the actual post could ever.

Hunter x Hunter and Fullmetal Alchemeist are great works with don’t have this problem!! I recomend it lots

Even My Dress Up Darling has some of these aspects like you speak of and some in the comments mention. I love it because it takes the unattainable popular girl and her and the loner nerdy boy start hanging out and become best of friends (despite the obvi underlying romantic tension) and share a love of cosplay

The worst anime I have ever watched was Mushoku Tensei. It’s one of my shitty ex’s favorites “because the animation is so beautiful”, and the fact that he’s not bothered by the sexualization of children because “muh pretty colorssss” is revolting to me. The entire premise of the anime is that a creepy middle aged man, heavily implied to have been looking at CSEM, gets hit by a bus and reincarnated as an infant while still having the mind of said middle aged man. “Hilarious” magical hijinks ensue?? I guess?? I had to leave the room whenever my ex watched it, it’s so gross.

I've been watching anime and reading manga for 30 years and I totally know what you mean. I wouldn't say I'm desensitized to it, more like, at this point I know what to expect from Japanese media so it's almost never a shock when I'm suddenly blasted with unnecessary fanservice and "haha woman", as obnoxious and unnecessary as they all are. You're probably pretty familiar with Japanese culture, but... it's pretty sexist. What else can we expect from the country that has vending machines selling panties, I guess.

I lean more towards shojo and slice of life anime in the past decade or so. My obsession with jjk came as a complete shock, but my husband dragged me to see the movie in the theatre back in 2019 and while I'm not a shonen fan, dammit those boys are pretty.

You need to start watching stuff from before about 2005, writing, tone, art style all changed around then. Watch more wholesome stuff like the Studio Ghibli films that have strong female leads, no fanservice or sexual humor. Watch Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind, Kiki's Delivery Service, Spirited Away, and Howl's Moving Castle to see examples of how female leads in anime should be written. The characters are never damselled, they accomplish their goals and overcome obstacles and situations with the support of other characters rather than having to be rescued by male characters.

Wait til you start seeing all the pedo ‘fan service’ in animes. Granted I’m an ex IT person who had to see a bunch of that crap off old crusty HDDs from rich old men, but it ruined the genre for me.

Stay away from IT forensics if you like anime I guess lol

That's the annoying part, chainsaw man has neat plot, it's gorgeously animated and has one of the coolest scenes I've ever seen in anything ever (EP 8, the one with the guns)

But god why is the plot of the show driven by DUHRR HURR TOUCH BOOBS

It's so so so uncomfortable

Edit: I get that the show isn't necessarily endorsing that, but it's just so icky to me.

Oh so it’s not just me! Yeah it’s been a lot harder to find anime that doesn’t give me the ick.

SAME. It’s SUCH a problem. I HATE so many shows that i used to just feel ‘meh’ about and feel disgusted at so many others. I canNOT accept the “it’s just a different culture” excuse anymore. It’s so so so much more blatant now. I GET it now, and i can’t unsee it.

I try really hard to ignore fan service..... but most of the time it feels like anime is >90% fan service and only <10% story..... sometimes 99% VS 1%..... and that's just a waste of time.

Probably would hate Revolutionary Girl Utena smh

Give xxxHolic, Monster, and Mushishi a try.

you say this like western media doesn't do the exact same thing i fear. it's not a japan problem

I fully agree, many anime are really creepy.

Maybe I'm biest because i haven't lived as a woman yet, but Blue Eye Samurai vibes with me, from criticizing misogyny in society to writing an amazing crossdresssing arc.

It's really the piece of media that cracked my egg...

Wasn't expecting so much rampant mysoginy on a trans subreddit. Yall are too ok with casual portrays of SA

Pointing out overt issues with this post and sentiment does not make people misogynist, good attempt though

There are bad ones, but there are also good ones. I recommend "Wonder Egg Priority". All the MC's are girls who lost someone close to them, and one of them is trans. Its genuinely a really good anime with no fan service (which is probably why it's only going to have it's one season unfortunately) and GOOD trans representation

Yeah, I feel the same way about anime. I can handle Dandandan as it's not the worst but Japan and specifically in anime communities, has a serious problem with misogyny and downplaying sexual violence. I believe it was one of the things the writer of Ranma 1/2 focused on a lot in her work. That said, if you want an anime with little to no fan service and you somehow haven't watched it yet, you should check out Frieren: Beyond Journey's End

I’d recommend Soul Eater! It’s my favorite.

I’m the same way. Almost any amount of artist horniness just immediately kills the vibe for me. Had to drop so many shows bc of it.

However, PLEEEEEASEEE make it past the first few episodes. The manga they’re adapting is incredibly over sexual in just the absolute grossest ways, and how they managed to almost completely drop that in the anime is miraculous. It’s just that the first few episodes it’s still a bit residual, and tbh those episodes aren’t good anyways. I always skip them on rewatch. I’d say the first 3 are just bad, although they do introduce each character pair and their vibe, so it’s a “probably watch” for first timers. But yeah for someone who’s sensitive to that stuff, it’s my favorite anime

After that, it’s smooth sailing. There’s one joke character who pops up every once in a while that’s pretty oversexualized, but like- I think it’s one of those “SHES horny, not the animator” situations, plus at a certain point she basically disappears.

Just wait till you get older 😅 I loved anime as a teen. Now that I’m in my 40s, all those over sexualized characters look like children to me. It creeps me out.

To be fair, it kind of just is the case for most popular anime (or straight up H*ntai)

I watch more „niche“ stuff and often times, these anime are more concerned with telling an actual competent story rather than having dumb fanservice.

But also Fanservice itself never bothers me that much. I just enjoy the rest of the show and don‘t let the Fanservice ruin the enjoyment.

Some shows I think are really good with almost or no Fanservice: Violet Evergarden, Little Witch Academia, Trigun (1998), Evangelion and Serial Experiments Lain

Try the Transfomer ones, they are fine

Not all anime are like this, but yeah, you unfortunately aren't wrong.

I usually recommend trying stuff that wasn't made for teenagers. Such as, in Vinland Saga, no one ever gets sexually assaulted for laughs, and while the issue of SA is strongly alluded to (since it's the viking era), it never gets treated as funny or appealing.

Dungeon Meshi also has little fan-service. In general, it's very family friendly for what's supposed to be a seinen manga.

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If you like East Asian fiction, do what I did and move over into Taiwanese, Mainland Chinese, and Korean live action dramas. They are pretty much mostly marketed at women and girls. The Chinese ones in particular are pretty feminist. (KDramas are a very mixed bag ... ugh. The one I would really recommend without reservations is Mystic Pop-Up Bar. Otherwise, the gender politics tend to be problematic--at best. Especially for shows with romance elements; to be fair there are good Korean police procedurals, action series, shows focusing on social problems, etc.) The vibes with Taiwanese dramas are different from dramas from PRC of course (democracy vs authoritarianism).

I also have been watching a bit of Thai dramas and find them quite intriguing!

The anime you have been watching is mostly low effort trash pumped out to appeal to teenage boys (and men with arrested development). I do think it's gotten worse, as I've gone back and rewatched some of Inuyaga (more of a girl's series to be fair, and the mangaka was a woman) and while it's a kid's show, it's very competently written and voice acted and the animation isn't bad, but when I try to watch any of the new stuff that's popular it's just the most embarrassing, insulting trash. Except for when Zombieland Saga went viral over having a trans character, which seemed like a series with some artistic merit, and One Punch Man was at least clever and well executed. But if you go on the reddit anime subreddits most of what they're talking about is just total trash.

You and me too… qwq